Thunder Lauriston lecture on "Why Sunday worship cannot be the Mark of the Beast"

[BNR32FAN]

He did not say to eat unclean foods. Foods that were sacrificed to idols were clean foods. I think it’s smarter to work backwards- If Isaiah 66:17 is the final result, that means no other scripture can mean something else. God doesn't say foods are unclean, then clean and then unclean again. We do not serve a God of confusion.

Pigs were often sacrificed to idols.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

But He did change the dietary laws 3 times before the New Covenant. We’ve already talked about that.

Never foods that were unclean to clean.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Pigs were often sacrificed to idols.

Do you have a text?

 

[bbbbbbb]

Do you have a text?

All you need to do is to travel abroad and visit various non-Christian cultures to observe that all manner of foods and things are sacrificed to idols. I attended a wedding in VietNam where there was beer and cigarettes among the items being offered to the ancestors.

 

[Adventist Dissident]

Opening Statement for Thunder Lauriston

Sunday Worship cannot be the Mark of the Beast

This is based on the notion in SDA theology that "Sunday worship is primarily sinful. It is the wrong day to worship God on. Sunday is pagan. It is the day that has been basically handed over to the Roman Catholic Church and Satan. It belongs to them and worshipping God on that day by proxy (one is inadvertently paying homage to Roman Catholicism or worshipping the Devil).


more to come from

The Lord's Day can still be the mark of the beast if it is associated with political corruption of the church. Even if the Lord's Day came from the apostles. It usurped it's rightful place. For political reasons.

 

[bbbbbbb]

The Lord's Day can still be the mark of the beast if it is associated with political corruption of the church. Even if the Lord's Day came from the apostles. It usurped it's rightful place. For political reasons.

One can build an argument against any sort of alteration of pure Christian teaching. For example, one can easily argue that God never commanded His people to engage in nineteenth-century American Protestant religious practices on Saturdays.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

All you need to do is to travel abroad and visit various non-Christian cultures to observe that all manner of foods and things are sacrificed to idols. I attended a wedding in VietNam where there was beer and cigarettes among the items being offered to the ancestors.

I am referring to scripture.

 

[Adventist Dissident]

One can build an argument against any sort of alteration of pure Christian teaching. For example, one can easily argue that God never commanded His people to engage in nineteenth-century American Protestant religious practices on Saturdays.

By that justification we shouldn't even try to understand what the text says

 

[Adventist Dissident]

1.
A. Peter is Given the keys. Matt. 16:19 Very clear Jesus is speaking Only to Peter Here. He will later Give Keys to the other disciples. Matt.18:18 Keys are authority, decision making power. Isa. 22:22 and can be passed down to other people. Making him the Head of the Church and the Official Representative of God on Earth.
B. Peter preaches at Pentecost and a delegation from Rome is there. The Roman delegation takes the gospel back to Rome and plants a church at which Priscilla and Aquila are members. When the Jews riot over "Crestus" and burn down the Jewish section of the city all the Jews are kicked out for about 10 years and that includes Priscila and Aquila. They go to Corinth Paul finds them there and they make their way to Ephesus. There they help Paul establish the church in Ephesus. Then they return to Rome. Paul follows later.

C. Peter makes its way to Rome. Where he preaches a series of sermons that become The book of Mark. He is executed there but before he is executed he and Paul choose a successor Linus.


2. Solomon (Man) is Called the "Son of God" the official Representative of God on earth, In the O.T.
a. Solomon is promised blessing for choosing wisdom over revenge and greed.
b. Solomon is involved in trade (buying & selling) in which he receives 666 (1 Kgs 10.14 / 2 Chr 9.13) talents of Gold in tribute each year.
c. Solomon violated Gods commandments misrepresenting God by making an alliance with the King of Egypt (Worldly Government)
d. Solomon violated Gods commandments misrepresenting God by marrying foreign wives and worshiping God in a wrong way.
e. Solomon violated Gods commandments misrepresenting God by enslaving and abusing God's people
3. Beast Rev 13.18 Identified with 666. The beast is identified with Solomon, Gods Representative.
4. God's Representative is the Church the Holder of the Keys. The Roman Catholic Church.
Did the Roman Catholic Church while in a Church/State Alliance
a. misrepresent God in any way? Yes
b. increase it wealth by slave trade Yes.
c. enslave people? Yes
d. did they change God's law according to Daniel 7? yes they got rid of the command against Idols and they claim to have changed the holiness of the Sabbath to Sunday by Sylvester I at the time of Constantine. NOTE . The claim that the Lord's day is pagan is wrong. The claim that the Lord's Day Replaced the Sabbath is wrong. The Lord's day was an additional festival to the Sabbath worship in the Synagogue. They did both. It is based on Palm Sunday, Easter Sunday and Pentacost Sunday. The Lord's day was created by Paul, Apollos, Prycilia & Aquilla in Ephesus in order stop conflict with the Jews, teach Christ and create a separate identity from the Synagogue so outsiders could tell the difference between Jew and Christian.

5 . Did they Misrepresent God to the people.
a. Yes they command people to not marry as the highest form of dedication to God. Nuns and Priest. The proper representation of God is in relationships is the Mother/Father model the 'Image of God on Earth.
b. They teach God will burn you and torture you forever if you don't accept him, instead of cremation. Malachi 4:3
c. They teach Evolution rather then Creation
d. They teach poverty as a virtue and the highest form of spirituality. Rather then God wanting to prosper us "be Fruitful and Multiply".
e. They teach the prophecy are either in the past or in the future but not on going. Changing the Times (prophecy) Daniel 7

6. When did Sunday usurp the Sabbath? When they became allied with the State at the time of Constantine.
7. When was the Sabbath banned? At the time of the Pagan resurgence by Julian the Apostate. The church is now allied with the government and in order to avoid state persecution of Christians by the pagan state they hid out in the synagogue. That is why the Sabbath was banned. for political reason not spiritual reasons.

So yes Sunday can be the Mark of the Beast if it is associated with a wrong political and theological adjenda. 666 in the OT is only connected to God's People 1 Kgs 10.14 / 2 Chr 9.13, Ezra 2:13. So it can only be God's people.

 

[bbbbbbb]

I am referring to scripture.

In the Bible swine are rarely mentioned at all nor are the religious rites of most Gentiles.

 

[ozso]

It is, because you try to find your SDA views in the Bible and pick verses that allow it and refuse/ignore verses that do not.

SDA has an extra-biblical source of doctrine - Ellen White. So you are biased, when reading the Bible, you must make it compatible with Ellen White.

Yes and they're extremely good at it though many years of practice. Any argument you can come up with has already been delivered many times and they have learned by now how to debunk all of them to their satisfaction.

 

[ozso]

In the Bible swine are rarely mentioned at all nor are the religious rites of most Gentiles

There's a big focus on pork. But really in the pre-Christian old covenant rules given to Israel, it's any animal that's a scavenger. I think the situation is God had a group of people set aside that he wanted to keep as healthy as possible. Hence dietary restrictions and lots of hygiene rules. I'm guessing those who go on about pork as unclean, don't give much thought to all the hygiene rules that make them clean or unclean according to God’s old covenant with Israel.

 

[trophy33]

Yes and they're extremely good at it though many years of practice. Any argument you can come up with has already been delivered many times and they have learned by now how to debunk all of them to their satisfaction.

Well, I would not call that "good", their arguments are quite bad, frequently. And speculations, eisegesis, changing the context etc.

On the other hand I agree that they have prepared materials/answers for all Christian arguments. So one must then dig into it to show them their answers are quite obviously wrong. Thy are also good in various evasion tactics and spamming you with tons of verses at once, without a willingness to talk about even the first ones in their context, properly.

 

[ozso]

Well, I would not call that "good", their arguments are quite bad, frequently. And speculations, eisegesis, changing the context etc.

You got me. Poor choice of words lol.

On the other hand I agree that they have prepared materials/answers for all Christian arguments. So one must then dig into it to show them their answers are quite obviously wrong. Thy are also good in various evasion tactics and spamming you with tons of verses at once, without a willingness to talk about even the first ones in their context, properly.

That's why I don't get into these kinds of threads very often or for very long anymore.

 

[ozso]

1. Peter is Given the keys. Matt. 16:19 Very clear Jesus is speaking Only to Peter Here. He will later Give Keys to the other disciples. Matt.18:18 Keys are authority, decision making power. Isa. 22:22 and can be passed down to other people. Making him the Head of the Church and the Official Representative of God on Earth.
2. Solomon (Man) is Called the "Son of God" the official Representative of God on earth, In the O.T.
a. Solomon is promised blessing for choosing wisdom over revenge and greed.
b. Solomon is involved in trade (buying & selling) in which he receives 666 (1 Kgs 10.14 / 2 Chr 9.13) talents of Gold in tribute each year.
c. Solomon violated Gods commandments misrepresenting God by making an alliance with the King of Egypt (Worldly Government)
d. Solomon violated Gods commandments misrepresenting God by marrying foreign wives and worshiping God in a wrong way.
e. Solomon violated Gods commandments misrepresenting God by enslaving and abusing God's people
3. Beast Rev 13.18 Identified with 666. The beast is identified with Solomon, Gods Representative.
4. God's Representative is the Church the Holder of the Keys. The Roman Catholic Church.
Did the Roman Catholic Church while in a Church/State Alliance
a. misrepresent God in any way? Yes
b. increase it wealth by slave trade Yes.
c. enslave people? Yes
d. did they change God's law according to Daniel 7? yes they got rid of the command against Idols and they claim to have changed the holiness of the Sabbath to Sunday by Sylvester I at the time of Constantine. NOTE . The claim that the Lord's day is pagan is wrong. The claim that the Lord's Day Replaced the Sabbath is wrong. The Lord's day was an additional festival to the Sabbath worship in the Synagogue. They did both. It is based on Palm Sunday, Easter Sunday and Pentacost Sunday. The Lord's day was created by Paul, Apollos, Prycilia & Aquilla in Ephesus in order stop conflict with the Jews, teach Christ and create a separate identity from the Synagogue so outsiders could tell the difference between Jew and Christian.

5 . Did they Misrepresent God to the people.
a. Yes they command people to not marry as the highest form of dedication to God. Nuns and Priest. The proper representation of God is in relationships is the Mother/Father model the 'Image of God on Earth.
b. They teach God will burn you and torture you forever if you don't accept him, instead of cremation. Malachi 4:3
c. They teach Evolution rather then Creation
d. They teach poverty as a virtue and the highest form of spirituality. Rather then God wanting to prosper us "be Fruitful and Multiply".
e. They teach the prophecy are either in the past or in the future but not on going. Changing the Times (prophecy) Daniel 7

6. When did Sunday usurp the Sabbath? When the became allied with the State at the time of Constantine.
7. When was the Sabbath banned? At the time of the Pagan resurgence by Julian the Apostate. The church is now allied with the government and in order to avoid state persecution of Christians by the pagan state they hid out in the synagogue. That is why the Sabbath was banned. for political reason not spiritual reasons.

So yes Sunday can be the Mark of the Beast if it is associated with a wrong political and theological adjenda. 666 in the OT is only connected to God's People 1 Kgs 10.14 / 2 Chr 9.13, Ezra 2:13. So it can only be God's people.

Wow.

 

[Adventist Dissident]

Wow.

Is that good or bad.

 

[Leaf473]

The Gentiles ate pig as well. So evidently they didn’t regard them as being unclean.

“Now there was a herd of many swine feeding at a distance from them. The demons began to entreat Him, saying, “If You are going to cast us out, send us into the herd of swine.” And He said to them, “Go!” And they came out and went into the swine, and the whole herd rushed down the steep bank into the sea and perished in the waters. The herdsmen ran away, and went to the city and reported everything, including what had happened to the demoniacs. And behold, the whole city came out to meet Jesus; and when they saw Him, they implored Him to leave their region.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭8‬:‭30‬-‭34‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Somebody was eating those pigs, and in the chain of events from field to dinner table, there almost certainly had to be a marketplace involved. So there were unclean things in the marketplace, seems reasonable

Also, there were parts of clean animals that weren't to be eaten. So unless the gentiles were very careful to follow the rules in Leviticus, that was another way that there were unclean things at the market.

At the end of Leviticus 3
“‘It shall be a perpetual statute throughout your generations in all your dwellings, that you shall eat neither fat nor blood.’”

 

[ozso]

Is that good or bad.

I'm not sure yet. Did you come up with it on your own?

 

[Adventist Dissident]

I'm not sure yet. Did you come up with it on your own?

It was a period of about 5 years of study. I'm not the originator of the connection of 666 to Solomon but I don't think anybody has ever said it exactly like I've said it. I've seen some people say that it could be us. But never specifically identify the church specifically the Roman Catholic Church. In this method.


I grew up at seventh-day Adventist and I'm familiar with the methods that they use. Because I started to be a pastor in that organization. About 20 years ago I started having problems with Ellen White and the doctrines of the church so I decided to be study the issue and go wherever the evidence lead me. And this is where it led me. Conclusion I think the seventh-day Adventist Church has drawn is correct the way they get there is not. They take shortcuts and make major assumptions. Sometimes they are wrong in their assumptions and their shortcuts. That's why I produced this study

 

[trophy33]

That's why I don't get into these kinds of threads very often or for very long anymore.

Yeah, it quickly turns to a chat-bot like conversation. Still the same verses that were already shown in their context to not support their ideas at all, but repeated the next day again.