Three Years in Federal Prison - Keeping Classified Documents

[RDKirk]

Why did you leave out the presidential records thing? Plus, not all top secret is the same. We can take a look at all the indictments against Trump, I think I spot more than one tiny little difference there...

In this regard, all TOP SECRET material legally is the same.

"Exceptionally grave damage to the national security of the United States" is as high as it goes. That wording is quoted straight out of the law.

 

[RDKirk]

When one is investigated of a crime and found innocent (or at least not guilty beyond reasonable doubt), than that should be the end of it. No further cries for investigation or punishment are warranted. Even significant new evidence is no reason because of the principle of double jeopardy. So you better be pretty sure of your case before you call for an investigation.

Rather, be sure of your case before you indict.

Nobody is sure of their case before the investigation.

 

[Nithavela]

Rather, be sure of your case before you indict.

Which is of course why they never got beyond the very well publicised investigation phase.

 

[stevil]

It looks to me as if Birchum did almost exactly the same thing that Trump did.

Trump isn't just in trouble for having in his possession and on his properties the classified information.
He is also in trouble for trying to hide them, for lying about them, for conspiring with others to hide them or destroy them, also for sharing them with the media.

Donald J Trump and Waltine Nauta did knowingly combine, conspire, confederate and agree, with each other and with others known and unknown to the grand jury, to engage in misleading conduct toward another person and corruptly persuade another person to withhold a record, document, and or other object from an official proceeding

The purpose of the conspiracy was for Trump to keep classified documents he had taken with him from the white house and to hide and conceal them from a federal grand jury.

The Manner and Means of the Conspiracy
- Suggesting that Trump Attorney 1 falsely to the FBI and Grand Jury, that Trump did not have documents called for by the Grand Jury
- Moving boxes of documents to conceal them from Trump Attorney 1, the FBI, and the grand jury
- Suggesting that Trump Attorney 1 hide or destroy documents called for by the subpoena
- providing to the FBI and Grand Jury just some of the documents called for by the subpoena while Trump claimed he was cooperating fully
- causing a false certification to be submitted to the FBI and grand jury representing that all documents with classification markings had been produced, when in fact they had not
- making false and misleading statements to the FBI

The indictment is a fascinating read and shows some of the shenanigans that Trump go upto with the documents.
If these charges are found to be true in court then it is really quite shocking stuff.

Had Trump not attempted to conceal and simply gave the documents back, he wouldn't be in anywhere near the trouble he finds himself in today.
This is all self inflicted.

 

[Bradskii]

Three years means there was no evidence that he passed them on to anyone else. Otherwise, it would have been an espionage charge.

Indeed. That's for simply possessing them. Trump not only possessed them, he lied about it, got other people to lie about it, moved them from place to place, stored them in easily accessible places, showed them to people who didn't have clearance to see them and refused to turn them over up to the point where the FBI had to go and get them.

 

[Hank77]

He is also in trouble for trying to hide them, for lying about them, for conspiring with others to hide them or destroy them, also for sharing them with the media.

I agree except when did he share them with the media? Are you referring to him waving around national security info. in front of the ghostwriter for hmm... was it McCarthy for a book?

Had Trump not attempted to conceal and simply gave the documents back, he wouldn't be in anywhere near the trouble he finds himself in today.
This is all self inflicted.

I doubt he would have been in any trouble at all. They would have been happy just to get everything back. I often wonder what caused Trump to develop such poor judgment. For it to be so serious I would think that it has to be something from his childhood.

 

[RDKirk]

Which is of course why they never got beyond the very well publicised investigation phase.

Here is another military anecdote to that effect:

The Constitution guarantees defendants a "speedy trial." The military, as it is wont to do, is specific with what "speedy trial" means: Ninety days, not a day more. It the defendant is not brought to trial by the 90th day, regardless of the gravity of the charges...he walks. There is no extension of the deadline because of trial scheduling delays or any other reason the military might present (although I think the defendant can request a delay). And double jeopardy protection is also in place.

What that means is that the military prosecutor is very careful not to indict until the prosecution is pretty much fully in place and is pretty solid. That's one of the several reasons why the military has an above-90% conviction rate for cases brought to court-martial. They don't bring questionable cases to court-martial in the first place.

 

[stevil]

I agree except when did he share them with the media? Are you referring to him waving around national security info. in front of the ghostwriter for hmm... was it McCarthy for a book?

Page 15 of the indictment where he gave an interview to a writer and a publisher.

I doubt he would have been in any trouble at all. They would have been happy just to get everything back. I often wonder what caused Trump to develop such poor judgment. For it to be so serious I would think that it has to be something from his childhood.

A lifetime of pushing boundaries and have no repercussions.
He was even impeached twice, and this didn't impact him politically at all. His fans don't care
The pardons for those that helped him, the pardoning of his elitist friend Bannon who stole from the Maga base and the Wall fund. No repercussions at all. His MAGA fans love him, think he can do no wrong.
He was handed millions upon millions of dollars as a young child, brought up in incredible privilege, handed the realms of his dads business where he is the boss, has noone that can hold him to account.

 

[Hank77]

Page 15 of the indictment where he gave an interview to a writer and a publisher.

That was the writer and publisher for a book. Now I think it was Mark Meadow's book. I still haven't looked that up.

 

[DaisyDay]

When one is investigated of a crime and found innocent (or at least not guilty beyond reasonable doubt), than that should be the end of it. No further cries for investigation or punishment are warranted. Even significant new evidence is no reason because of the principle of double jeopardy.

Double jeopardy only applies to prosecution, not investigation. Sometimes we get around that by having different federal and state charges. For instance, if someone is acquitted of murder on the state level, they may still be liable for violating the civil rights (right to life) of the murdered person on the federal level.

There is one guy, Curtis Flowers, who has been prosecuted six times by the same prosecutor, Doug Evans, for the same murder, sentenced to death four times and had a hung jury twice. He spent 20 years on death row before gaining release.

So you better be pretty sure of your case before you call for an investigation.

But investigation is how you make your case (or not).