Thoughts?

[I Eat Pie]

GZ was a neighborhood watch captain. He was a local resident like TM, with no authority or jurisdiction to follow anyone.

Well then isn't it his job to watch people? Neighborhood watch sounds like security man.

 

[I Eat Pie]

Actually the man facing charges was not a security guard, but volunteered his time as the captain of his neighborhood watch. He wasn't on duty at the time, but describes plenty of reason to have been suspicious of Treyvon.

What I don't get is why these two didn't simply talk like reasonable people, calming Zimmerman's fears by demonstrating legal entry to the place Treyvon was staying, with an introduction to the Captain of the neighborhood watch. Too easy!

Interesting theory that if Treyvon had been white, that George would have been arrested. That would be troublesome.

I don't really know if our country is very biased towards protecting white people, but I could be wrong. I had a fight in middle school with a hispanic dude, and I got the same suspension he did for 3 days.

 

[Casual Observer]

I don't really know if our country is very biased towards protecting white people, but I could be wrong. I had a fight in middle school with a hispanic dude, and I got the same suspension he did for 3 days.

I don't know what could be done about racist treatment in a case like this. At this point I think it comes down to there was either probably cause for arrest, or there wasn't. And more to the point, they can either convict George of the charges they've pressed, or they can't. The whole thing stinks, IMHO. Why press charges that can't possibly stick? If they really wanted to convict they would've charged him with wrongful death. If they didn't want to convict, why even arrest?

I don't know, but it really seems to me like a case of appeasing public opinion. Mob rule, with the DA as an accomplice.

 

[I Eat Pie]

So he's going free?

 

[Casual Observer]

So he's going free?

IIRC, his next trial date is 5/28. I doubt there has been so much speculation about any trial since OJ. As I understand it, if he doesn't go free its only because the prosecution has some serious evidence the public doesn't know about. And in that case they would be guilty of withholding evidence - which is already a problem for the prosecution. I think he faces murder 2, and I don't see how they can meet the burden of proof to convict for that. Anyway it'll be interesting to see the results, and if any element of racism re: arrest comes up.

In the meantime even if he's found not guilty, his life is ruined.

 

[Shemjaza]

Stalking is a legal term. There was no stalking.

I didn't mean to imply the legal definition.

"Stalk" felt like an appropriate term for "secretly followed while carrying a weapon".

 

[Casual Observer]

I didn't mean to imply the legal definition.

"Stalk" felt like an appropriate term for "secretly followed while carrying a weapon".

Fair enough. There are 2 implications of that:

1) was he secretive about it? If he was trying to be, he apparently failed. Treyvon knew all about him. And how do you be secretive while following in a truck?

2) Intent with the weapon. I think this will be really key in the trial. It makes no sense to me that you intend to shoot somebody, after you call the cops to the location.

I don't really hold our Courts to the standard of making sense.

 

[Dani K]

Actually the man facing charges was not a security guard, but volunteered his time as the captain of his neighborhood watch. He wasn't on duty at the time, but describes plenty of reason to have been suspicious of Treyvon.

What I don't get is why these two didn't simply talk like reasonable people, calming Zimmerman's fears by demonstrating legal entry to the place Treyvon was staying, with an introduction to the Captain of the neighborhood watch. Too easy!

Interesting theory that if Treyvon had been white, that George would have been arrested. That would be troublesome.

The flip side of that is... if Treyvon had been white we wouldnt even remember the story. It would have never gotten the coverage because to commit a racist act against a white is never considered racist. Well unless you are from the middle east... and even then its a difference in religious views not racism.

 

[FreeSpirit74]

Well then isn't it his job to watch people? Neighborhood watch sounds like security man.

Not quite. Someone active in Neighborhood Watch will take it upon themselves to call the local authorities when they see something amiss in the vicinity (my NW has a list of numbers to call depending upon the circumstances being witnessed). They do not, OTOH, have any authority to act as law enforcement, apprehend someone who appears to be breaking the law or otherwise doing things they shouldn't be doing, or to try to break things up if there is a fight going on. Their purpose is to act as the eyes and ears for local law enforcement, and to alert them when there is a problem that needs to be dealt with. If GZ witnessed TM doing something or going somewhere he shouldn't, he should have just called the cops, 911, etc. and given TM's description and told them what he was doing BUT .... other than that he should not have done ANYTHING else.

I have attended several NW meetings, easy because they are held in the conference room on the first floor of the building where I live, right underneath my living room! There is one civilian and one City Police officer who are in charge and run the meetings. They print out reports of different crimes that have occured in the neighborhood since the last meeting (every 3rd Wednesday of each month), and those get reviewed. There are also a number of ongoing issues for which the status is updated.

 

[Casual Observer]

Not quite. Someone active in Neighborhood Watch will take it upon themselves to call the local authorities when they see something amiss in the vicinity (my NW has a list of numbers to call depending upon the circumstances being witnessed). They do not, OTOH, have any authority to act as law enforcement, apprehend someone who appears to be breaking the law or otherwise doing things they shouldn't be doing, or to try to break things up if there is a fight going on. Their purpose is to act as the eyes and ears for local law enforcement, and to alert them when there is a problem that needs to be dealt with. If GZ witnessed TM doing something or going somewhere he shouldn't, he should have just called the cops, 911, etc. and given TM's description and told them what he was doing BUT .... other than that he should not have done ANYTHING else.

This is what Georgey did. There is no legal requirement to not do anything else, where this took place. Plus, he wasn't on patrol. He was just being George. So all those things become kinda moot.

Myself, I find it unreasonable to think that George did anything other than what he said he did, in that he wanted to help Police locate the 'suspect.' I don't think he called the cops with malice aforethought to shoot him to death. That just makes no sense, and that's what they have to convict him of, because of what he's been charged with.

The whole thing seems like a media circus to me, and I just don't see justice being served that way.

 

[I Eat Pie]

Well isn't that what he did? Called the authorities. Then maybe he shot the boy when he got attacked. Well apparently, they both called the cops, so it's strange.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

There's an interesting post I saw somewhere in the comments where someone said something like "They never say anything when black people kill other black people. I guess a black person's life is useless unless it's taken by a non-black person".

It's obviously not true, but it seems like something reasonable to say considering all the black-on-black violence in this country doesn't get much coverage.

I'm sure the liberal press realizes the picture that such continuous news paints of these violent black neighborhoods. Best for them if the press buries these stories in the back pages.

 

[lupusFati]

I'm sure the liberal press realizes the picture that such continuous news paints of these violent black neighborhoods. Best for them if the press buries these stories in the back pages.

Really hope that's sarcastic.

 

[I Eat Pie]

I'm sure the liberal press realizes the picture that such continuous news paints of these violent black neighborhoods. Best for them if the press buries these stories in the back pages.

Well if we want to stop all the killing, shouldn't we be addressing the issue?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Really hope that's sarcastic.

Not entirely.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Well if we want to stop all the killing, shouldn't we be addressing the issue?

Sure, but tell that to the liberal governments of those troubled neighborhoods. There may only be a few hundred black gang members but there are thousands of black voters. You don't just go in these neighborhoods and roust them without risking a political backlash.

 

[I Eat Pie]

Ya but it seems like an issue that would be pretty easy to solve.... Just promote the black family again and make sure these kids grow up with both parents, and the problem would go away.

Why do they try to stop people from helping other people?

 

[CabVet]

Sure, but tell that to the liberal governments of those troubled neighborhoods. There may only be a few hundred black gang members but there are thousands of black voters. You don't just go in these neighborhoods and roust them without risking a political backlash.

Yeah, and those "troubled neighborhoods" are only in places controlled by liberals, right? None in red states, right? If it is all the "liberal's fault" red states should be perfect, too bad they aren't.

Don't be so fast to blame the federal government either, remember that before Obama we had 8 years of Bush and nothing was different during that time.

 

[I Eat Pie]

Things were just as bad, if not worse, under Bush, as they are under Obama.

 

[lupusFati]

Obama promised change, and we got change. Just not the type everyone wanted.

But this isn't the politics subforum, so yeah.