Thoughts on These Experiences

[EvanWilliams]

Hello everyone,

If you've read any of my posts in the past, you likely know that I am what is called an agnostic atheist. This means that I do not hold a belief in any particular god or gods, but also do not believe that a god doesn't exist. I just don't know one way or another. So, I suppose I am what you all in the Christian community might call a "wayward soul".

Anyway, lately, I've been having some very strange experiences that I cannot comfortably chalk up to coincidence. I will share the first of these experiences after providing a little background history.

There is this girl at my college that I used to take a martial arts class with. I am currently a senior; it was sophomore year that we took the class together. We developed a strong friendship very quickly; if you've ever taken martial arts, you may know that throwing and being thrown around by someone of the opposite sex three times a week tends to build up some sexual tension. I was single at the time, but this girl had a boyfriend at a military academy many miles away. So, one night, this tension exploded. I stopped myself from going *too* far with this girl, but the damage was done to our friendship and we haven't really spoken that much since, though now we are both single.

So, on to the weirdness: I've been mentally and spiritually lost in this fog lately. I am unable to concentrate on my academic studies or motivate myself to do much of anything other than creative writing and playing bass. That may just be senioritis, but I've been having these weird thoughts lately that there has to be something out there that "started" all of this. I've been so consumed with these thoughts that it has lead to my absent-mindedness and aforementioned lethargy.

So, one day, I decide to start exploring religion again. I pick up my NIV Bible and start reading, plugging all the way through Genesis in one sitting. The strange thing is, right as I finished, the girl I mentioned calls me up. I forgot to mention that this girl is a very fervent Christian. She tells me that she doesn't know why, but God gave her the feeling that she should call me. This severely disturbs me; I didn't share that sentiment with her, but we conversed for awhile and caught up on things. I should also mention that I still harbor a strong attraction to this girl. Even though I am an atheist, I can still feel a deep respect for her passion and loyalty to her god; I also deeply respect her because she is able, unlike many, to have that much love for her god and still not hold it against me that I do not believe as she does. She understands my position where many do not.

On to the second of these strange happenings: two nights ago, I smoked marijuana with my roommates. I should mention that marijuana does not cause hallucinations, as this will be important later. Midway through smoking, a male voice just says, "Stop." I was compelled to obey and lay down my pipe. The voice was not in my head, but rather was a sort of sound that filled the entire room. The strange thing is that none of my other roommates heard it; I also do not have any history of psychological problems or auditory hallucinations. That night, I had a lot of really weird dreams involving varying Christian imagery and symbols.

The last, and most disturbing, of these occurrences happened this morning. I woke up with blood red marking on my palms, the backs of my hands, and the topside and undersides of my feet. I'm sure you can imagine what I immediately thought of when I saw that. After I saw those markings, I started to freak out until this really strange calming presence washed over me and the marks faded to nothing. I did some research and have found that others have had this experience called "stigmata", though the others involved actual blood. There was no blood in my experience. Shortly after, the girl I mentioned called me up again and told me that she was compelled to invite me to church that weekend. I'd be lying if I said I wasn't mainly motivated to acquiesce because I am attracted to her, but it all seems far too strange to ignore.

So, my question is... what are your thoughts on this? I mean... I still have a lot of philosophical and logical mind blocks that would prevent me from ever fully believing in the Bible and mainstream Christianity, but these experiences are something I cannot ignore.

 

[drich0150]

Proof for God often comes in packages that mean little to others and everything to those in whom those packages were meant for.

I think you have a choice. you can use these experiences as a starting off point in a relationship with God or you can explain away what has happened to you as coincidence.

 

[MyEverything]

Proof for God often comes in packages that mean little to others and everything to those in whom those packages were meant for.

I think you have a choice. you can use these experiences as a starting off point in a relationship with God or you can explain away what has happened to you as coincidence.

Yup. Pretty much this.

 

[razeontherock]

Nah. You can't possibly explain all this away. Welcome to the fold, Evan! Just a matter of time now ...

"The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much." (James 5:16)

Oh and, I'm a bass player too. And keys. And trumpet. And vocals. But every group I currently play with, I play bass. And more want me to play bass for them; more than I can possibly play for.

Go to Church with this girl. Try to be honest with her. It's ok to tell her you wouldn't go if you weren't attracted to her; nothing wrong with that at all. What were your dreams? You might even post them up in our Dreams & Visions sub-forum ...

 

[elopez]

I mean come on, you were smoking pot when you heard this voice, you were just stoned and heard something your other roommates didn't hear, which is natural when smoking pot. The dream isn't anything special because you were earlier reading the Bible and thinking about the voice you heard as being God, and dreams often reflect the days events and our thoughts.

The only thing that really stands out as is the "stigmata" experience, but what if that was just your roommates playing a joke while you were passed out?

 

[EvanWilliams]

I mean come on, you were smoking pot when you heard this voice, you were just stoned and heard something your other roommates didn't hear, which is natural when smoking pot.

I see where you're coming from, but I do have experience with mind-altering substances, and I can tell you that marijuana does not cause auditory hallucinations like that, especially not after two hits, especially not the kind of marijuana I was using, and especially not at the volume I heard it. If it were something like dextromethorphan, diphenhydramine, or shrooms, all of which I do have experience with from when I was younger, curious, and more stupid, then that would be a valid objection.

I mean, let's take for example Brian Welch's conversion story. If you're not familiar with Brian Welch aka. "Head", he was the lead guitarist in the band KoRn. He has a young daughter and came home to her one night after doing a very considerable amount of cocaine. He claims to have heard God telling him to clean up his life and concentrate on raising his daughter right before he was about to shoot himself; he has since turned his life around, changed his musical style to Christian metal, and given up drugs altogether. Now, if I had been on cocaine (which, by the way, I would never do) at the time like Welch, I, like you, would call shenanigans. I personally think Welch was just high out of his mind and had a hallucination that turns out worked out pretty well for him.

The dream isn't anything special because you were earlier reading the Bible and thinking about the voice you heard as being God, and dreams often reflect the days events and our thoughts.

Granted.

The only thing that really stands out as is the "stigmata" experience, but what if that was just your roommates playing a joke while you were passed out?

That is what I thought at first, but as I said, the markings faded away before my eyes without me doing anything. Markers don't do that. Furthermore, my roommates know nothing about any of the experiences I have mentioned, nor did I say anything about hearing that voice; it was just obvious to me that they hadn't heard it as well. So it would seem very unlikely that they would play such a related prank on me. Finally, when they *do* pull pranks on me like that, there is always a mention of it afterwards; no such discussion was had.

-Evan W.

 

[elopez]

Of course marijuana doesn't cause hallucinations of that nature, all I'm saying is that you could have thought you heard something when all along it was just your mind and a mixture of being high. How loud did you hear the voice anyway?

Like I said the stigmata thing is weird, I've heard of cases like that though I am not aware of any explanations.

 

[EvanWilliams]

Of course marijuana doesn't cause hallucinations of that nature, all I'm saying is that you could have thought you heard something when all along it was just your mind and a mixture of being high.

Ah okay, my misunderstanding. I wasn't particularly high yet though, just buzzed.

How loud did you hear the voice anyway?

Not painfully loud, but very clear. It sounded kind of like a man with a deep voice would if he had a megaphone and was about 10 feet away from me speaking normally. That's the best description I can come up with.

Like I said the stigmata thing is weird, I've heard of cases like that though I am not aware of any explanations.

Yes, exactly. Normally, I try to remain as rational as possible about things that seem unexplainable, but you have to draw the line at some point and realize that you can't just come up with a rational explanation while still being honest with yourself.

-Evan W.

 

[elopez]

-Evan W.
Yes, exactly. Normally, I try to remain as rational as possible about things that seem unexplainable, but you have to draw the line at some point and realize that you can't just come up with a rational explanation while still being honest with yourself.

Me too, which is the best method I think than just concluding it is unexplainable. Even if we cannot find a reasonable explanation there still may be an explanation, just that we are incapable of deriving there. Though you are right, the line must be drawn and we must face the reality, and I guess the question for yourself is this that line?

 

[andreha]

Hello everyone,

If you've read any of my posts in the past, you likely know that I am what is called an agnostic atheist. This means that I do not hold a belief in any particular god or gods, but also do not believe that a god doesn't exist. I just don't know one way or another. So, I suppose I am what you all in the Christian community might call a "wayward soul".

Anyway, lately, I've been having some very strange experiences that I cannot comfortably chalk up to coincidence. I will share the first of these experiences after providing a little background history.

There is this girl at my college that I used to take a martial arts class with. I am currently a senior; it was sophomore year that we took the class together. We developed a strong friendship very quickly; if you've ever taken martial arts, you may know that throwing and being thrown around by someone of the opposite sex three times a week tends to build up some sexual tension. I was single at the time, but this girl had a boyfriend at a military academy many miles away. So, one night, this tension exploded. I stopped myself from going *too* far with this girl, but the damage was done to our friendship and we haven't really spoken that much since, though now we are both single.

So, on to the weirdness: I've been mentally and spiritually lost in this fog lately. I am unable to concentrate on my academic studies or motivate myself to do much of anything other than creative writing and playing bass. That may just be senioritis, but I've been having these weird thoughts lately that there has to be something out there that "started" all of this. I've been so consumed with these thoughts that it has lead to my absent-mindedness and aforementioned lethargy.

So, one day, I decide to start exploring religion again. I pick up my NIV Bible and start reading, plugging all the way through Genesis in one sitting. The strange thing is, right as I finished, the girl I mentioned calls me up. I forgot to mention that this girl is a very fervent Christian. She tells me that she doesn't know why, but God gave her the feeling that she should call me. This severely disturbs me; I didn't share that sentiment with her, but we conversed for awhile and caught up on things. I should also mention that I still harbor a strong attraction to this girl. Even though I am an atheist, I can still feel a deep respect for her passion and loyalty to her god; I also deeply respect her because she is able, unlike many, to have that much love for her god and still not hold it against me that I do not believe as she does. She understands my position where many do not.

On to the second of these strange happenings: two nights ago, I smoked marijuana with my roommates. I should mention that marijuana does not cause hallucinations, as this will be important later. Midway through smoking, a male voice just says, "Stop." I was compelled to obey and lay down my pipe. The voice was not in my head, but rather was a sort of sound that filled the entire room. The strange thing is that none of my other roommates heard it; I also do not have any history of psychological problems or auditory hallucinations. That night, I had a lot of really weird dreams involving varying Christian imagery and symbols.

The last, and most disturbing, of these occurrences happened this morning. I woke up with blood red marking on my palms, the backs of my hands, and the topside and undersides of my feet. I'm sure you can imagine what I immediately thought of when I saw that. After I saw those markings, I started to freak out until this really strange calming presence washed over me and the marks faded to nothing. I did some research and have found that others have had this experience called "stigmata", though the others involved actual blood. There was no blood in my experience. Shortly after, the girl I mentioned called me up again and told me that she was compelled to invite me to church that weekend. I'd be lying if I said I wasn't mainly motivated to acquiesce because I am attracted to her, but it all seems far too strange to ignore.

So, my question is... what are your thoughts on this? I mean... I still have a lot of philosophical and logical mind blocks that would prevent me from ever fully believing in the Bible and mainstream Christianity, but these experiences are something I cannot ignore.

I honestly think that what you experienced comes from God, through His Holy Spirit. I do believe God wants you - and I know He has all kinds of methods to get His way.

 

[oi_antz]

Hello everyone,

If you've read any of my posts in the past, you likely know that I am what is called an agnostic atheist. This means that I do not hold a belief in any particular god or gods, but also do not believe that a god doesn't exist. I just don't know one way or another. So, I suppose I am what you all in the Christian community might call a "wayward soul".

Anyway, lately, I've been having some very strange experiences that I cannot comfortably chalk up to coincidence. I will share the first of these experiences after providing a little background history.

There is this girl at my college that I used to take a martial arts class with. I am currently a senior; it was sophomore year that we took the class together. We developed a strong friendship very quickly; if you've ever taken martial arts, you may know that throwing and being thrown around by someone of the opposite sex three times a week tends to build up some sexual tension. I was single at the time, but this girl had a boyfriend at a military academy many miles away. So, one night, this tension exploded. I stopped myself from going *too* far with this girl, but the damage was done to our friendship and we haven't really spoken that much since, though now we are both single.

So, on to the weirdness: I've been mentally and spiritually lost in this fog lately. I am unable to concentrate on my academic studies or motivate myself to do much of anything other than creative writing and playing bass. That may just be senioritis, but I've been having these weird thoughts lately that there has to be something out there that "started" all of this. I've been so consumed with these thoughts that it has lead to my absent-mindedness and aforementioned lethargy.

So, one day, I decide to start exploring religion again. I pick up my NIV Bible and start reading, plugging all the way through Genesis in one sitting. The strange thing is, right as I finished, the girl I mentioned calls me up. I forgot to mention that this girl is a very fervent Christian. She tells me that she doesn't know why, but God gave her the feeling that she should call me. This severely disturbs me; I didn't share that sentiment with her, but we conversed for awhile and caught up on things. I should also mention that I still harbor a strong attraction to this girl. Even though I am an atheist, I can still feel a deep respect for her passion and loyalty to her god; I also deeply respect her because she is able, unlike many, to have that much love for her god and still not hold it against me that I do not believe as she does. She understands my position where many do not.

On to the second of these strange happenings: two nights ago, I smoked marijuana with my roommates. I should mention that marijuana does not cause hallucinations, as this will be important later. Midway through smoking, a male voice just says, "Stop." I was compelled to obey and lay down my pipe. The voice was not in my head, but rather was a sort of sound that filled the entire room. The strange thing is that none of my other roommates heard it; I also do not have any history of psychological problems or auditory hallucinations. That night, I had a lot of really weird dreams involving varying Christian imagery and symbols.

The last, and most disturbing, of these occurrences happened this morning. I woke up with blood red marking on my palms, the backs of my hands, and the topside and undersides of my feet. I'm sure you can imagine what I immediately thought of when I saw that. After I saw those markings, I started to freak out until this really strange calming presence washed over me and the marks faded to nothing. I did some research and have found that others have had this experience called "stigmata", though the others involved actual blood. There was no blood in my experience. Shortly after, the girl I mentioned called me up again and told me that she was compelled to invite me to church that weekend. I'd be lying if I said I wasn't mainly motivated to acquiesce because I am attracted to her, but it all seems far too strange to ignore.

So, my question is... what are your thoughts on this? I mean... I still have a lot of philosophical and logical mind blocks that would prevent me from ever fully believing in the Bible and mainstream Christianity, but these experiences are something I cannot ignore.

Well you know it's very difficult for someone to understand the reality of your own personal experiences. It's not every person who experiences stigmata or such powerful coincidence that seems to be God's work, but I would say for whatever reason it might be (and it seems to be outside your control), you're apparently experiencing something of a Christian nature. Because I'm Christian and I absolutely love God and wish that everyone would come to know Him, I would say that you should take up your friend's offer and go to church with her. If it truly is God's work in your life, you could find that even by listening to what God says when His Holy Spirit speaks through the pastor, maybe a light will go on and you could realize that your philosophical and logical roadblocks aren't actually roadblocks, but certain characteristics unique to you that God can use to your own advantage and for others. I wouldn't say it is wise to deny God's calling if you feel you are being called, it's not every person who He deems worthy of a special approach and He's certainly not going to force you into faith if it is something you don't want. But definitely do check out what it is that He's offering you before you decide to reject it.