Thoughts on Qur'an burning...

The Nihilist · Sep 11, 2010

GQ Chris said:
Americans need to stop capitulating to their thuggery and intimidation.

Capitulating? I don't know that two wars over nine years with no end in site really counts as capitulating. But then, I don't get all my opinions from Fox News and my pastor.
In 2003, we invaded a sovereign nation without provocation, hanged its leaders, and occupied it for years, resulting in the deaths of over 100,000 Iraqis. In the long run I think Iraq is going to be better for it, but I don't think that we, as Americans, are in anything like a position to accuse others of thuggery or intimidation.

GQ Chris · Sep 11, 2010

The Nihilist said:
But then, I don't get all my opinions from Fox News and my pastor.

Funny guy, funnee. Neither do I son, neither do I.

Tenka · Sep 11, 2010

mcswan said:
Is that the information you get from CNN and MSNBC and the New York Times?

Are you trying to pick a fight? I don't get any of those news services here and I don't see what your articles have to do with what I said.

mcswan · Sep 11, 2010

Tenka said:
Are you trying to pick a fight? I don't get any of those news services here and I don't see what your articles have to do with what I said.

Though it was your comment I responded to, it was not aimed at you directly. I was playing off your "media snowball" phrase to make my point: media hype is not one way.

I'm not picking a fight.

allhart · Sep 11, 2010

Boiled down point. God sacrificed His only begotten son as a substitute for our sin, however; if the muslims won't except that gift.....they will be sacrificing ours and their sons on the battlefield! There is no muslim nation that resembles or even comes close to what freedoms America has!

suzybeezy · Sep 11, 2010

I think its moreso the symbolism of what the burning of any book holy to any religion represents - its an act of hatred. I feel so much sadness of this minister's congregation as they are being led by a man who apparently isn't paying much attention to what the words in our holy Bible says. Matthew 5:44 But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,

Lockguy3000 · Sep 12, 2010

chingchang said:
I was thinking it was about ignorance...on both sides. I still think the Muslim reaction should be "go ahead...we'll print more...you can burn a book but you can't touch the words...which are eternal in nature". The fact that they get so bent out of shape because somebody burns a book or draws Muhammad says a lot about their ability to reason. Just sayin'...

CC

Well I think it's mainly being about racism, and bigotry.

These people is now in the world as being misunderstood,
being hated and discriminated.

Burning a book of their religion only adds to the kick in the face.

It's like your screen name,
as a Chinese I do find it some what insulting,
because I grew up with being the recipient of racist remarks,
Your screen name was used as mock chinese, as a taunt.

Am I going to make a big thing about it, no,
It's your right, you can have whatever screen name you like.

The Asians are not the main target of major bigotry these days.

If we are, you'll hear something different from me.

SithDoughnut · Sep 12, 2010

The Muslim reactions to burning Qur'ans isn't necessarily overreacting if you understand what the Qur'an means to Muslims. For many Muslims, the message and the paper are not independent; if you destroy the book, you physically destroy the words of Allah. That's why they always read from the Arabic, because if you translate it then it's no longer the words of Allah.

One of my friends summed it up as thus: If the body of Jesus was discovered, and people start burning the bones, how would you feel? That is how much the Qur'an as a book means to Muslims.

Belk · Sep 12, 2010

allhart said:
Boiled down point. God sacrificed His only begotten son as a substitute for our sin, however; if the muslims won't except that gift.....they will be sacrificing ours and their sons on the battlefield! There is no muslim nation that resembles or even comes close to what freedoms America has!

So you would start a war to convert them by the sword?

Oh, and Muslim democracy:
Islam and democracy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Turkey - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Belk · Sep 12, 2010

mcswan said:
Media snowball? You mean the media hype the news, and gullible people get all excited?

Hate crimes against Muslims rare, FBI data shows | McClatchy

Inconvenient Truth: 10 Times More Hate Crimes Against Jews Than Muslims | NewsBusters.org

"Another interesting data point: 4.7 percent of hate crimes in 2008 were motivated by anti-Catholic bias. Another 3.7 percent were anti-Protestant. So from a raw numbers perspective, there were more hate crimes against Christians in America in 2008 than there were against Muslims. Given our large Christian population, it's true that each Christian is far less likely to be victimized, but the numbers still show that religious haters have not been singling out Muslims."

Is that the information you get from CNN and MSNBC and the New York Times?

It is good there have been few hate crimes. Lets hope it stays that way with all the negative feelings that suddenly seem to permeate this board. Lets hope the people posting how all Islam is violent are not a bellwether for the rest of the country.

GQ Chris · Sep 12, 2010

SithDoughnut said:
One of my friends summed it up as thus: If the body of Jesus was discovered, and people start burning the bones, how would you feel? That is how much the Qur'an as a book means to Muslims.

Poppycock. America is the land of the free, free speech, if they don't like it, too bad. Just like I couldn't go to Saudi Arabia and start proselityzing Christianity, that's just the way it is.

GQ Chris · Sep 12, 2010

Just a super ridiculous double standard that the PC crowd love to make an issue about because their actions basically confirm that this is not a peaceful religion and there will be murderous backlash if we don't respect their Holy book; they expect tolerance while being intolerant to those of other religions.

Fin1234 · Sep 12, 2010

This is kinda where the far hard right wing show their true lack of communication and basic self awareness of social skills.

The issue with the burning is nothing to do with having to protect a holy book, from a secular perspective it is that we have a public event which is designed to incite violence.

Plenty of "anti-christian" protests and "anti-atheist" events but these events tend to evolve into nothing more than people shouting at one another and the people in these events and protests know this.

People know that there are a minority of muslims out their who are violent and will want to re-taliate in a un-civil manner. Yet still they press on.

The muslim responce is sad, but the fact that these book burners argue that THEY are the ones being oppressed would be hilarious if it weren't so tragic.

Good communication and effective persuasion and influence requires that you deal with other peoples ir-rational thoughts.

Hiding from them gets you no-where.

deborahnan · Sep 13, 2010

Looks like the violent Muslims are using the "non-story" to incite violence anyway. They have printed pamplets about "sad sack Jones" and his intention to burn the qu'oran and now there is rioting and violence. Yes the press in the US has a ways to go on integrity but pity the people of Iran, Iraq and the Middle East where there is a lack of truth and the people are controlled by propaganda.

Trying to keep something "HOly" by violence is like an oxi-"moron"

GrowingSmaller · Sep 13, 2010

Burning a book is a highly emotive symbol. I wish that people could calm down and use their heads. One problem is language and social barriers, plus the culture of debate. For instance, so long as the mainstream media are a main form of communication, dialogue will play by it's rules. Burning books, rioting and terrorism are all media friendly in that they are hightly striking and saleable phenomena. Note that their cognitive content is minimal (contrasting cognitive and emotive meaning). In the West we have new a "geography" of dialogue in the form of the internet, whereby the higher faculties can reign to some degree. We don't have to kill, burn or attack to be heard. Also, the www helps overcome the "aristocracy" of the politicians, journalists, priests and professional authors. I feel that as the barriers come down, the common man will have his day. Hopefully, a problem shared will definitely be a problem halfed. As for when, don't hold your breath.

Fenny the Fox · Sep 13, 2010

I support the same view as Hannity on this subject [which is unlike me when it comes to social issues], which is: we should have a day to sit down and read it, rather than burn it.

Burning a book, to me, is highly ignorant. The idea that burning Korans will somehow lessen the desire of the Imam to build the Mosque there is more ignorant. And the thought that, somehow, burning Korans publicly in a national spotlight will harbor good intention and peace from radical Islamic sects is the stupidest one yet.

Extremism is not good in either direction when it comes to religion, and that is what this is, pure and simple: extremism.

Protocol11 · Sep 13, 2010

The Muslim reactions to burning Qur'ans isn't necessarily overreacting if you understand what the Qur'an means to Muslims. For many Muslims, the message and the paper are not independent; if you destroy the book, you physically destroy the words of Allah. That's why they always read from the Arabic, because if you translate it then it's no longer the words of Allah.

One of my friends summed it up as thus: If the body of Jesus was discovered, and people start burning the bones, how would you feel? That is how much the Qur'an as a book means to Muslims.

I get that. But it's an inherently stupid idea. This is why western culture is superior. We have stupid people, but even our stupid people know that burning a book in demonstration is a basically meaningless act.

I get what it means to them, but they are idiots. And I have a habit of not caring about the opinions of morons, idiots, and stupid people.

People know that there are a minority of muslims out their who are violent and will want to re-taliate in a un-civil manner. Yet still they press on.

And by altering our behavior around them, they win. They want to be violent, fine. We should be more violent towards them.

Good communication and effective persuasion and influence requires that you deal with other peoples ir-rational thoughts.

And killing them does that quite effectively.

Jade Margery · Sep 13, 2010

Protocol11 said:
And by altering our behavior around them, they win. They want to be violent, fine. We should be more violent towards them.

And killing them does that quite effectively.

Yeah, 'cause that has totally worked for the last decade. They sure aren't violent and wanting to kill us now! It's a good thing we've insulted, bombed, invaded, and murdered them, isn't it?

Violence only begets violence, and then more of US die. Screw that. We don't have to alter our behavior, we could just not, you know, taunt angry people.

JustMeSee · Sep 13, 2010

Protocol11 said:
And by altering our behavior around them, they win. They want to be violent, fine. We should be more violent towards them.

I don't know if you are aware of the fact, but these three sentences basically say:

1. If we alter our behavior, they will win.
2. Since they want to be violent...
3. We should alter our behavior by becoming more violent towards them. Re-read #1.

GrowingSmaller · Sep 14, 2010

Violence is the most extreme form of emotive communicaiton. Although emotions are important, as vehicles of experiencing value, a merely emotive oriantation towards reality is something we often condemn "brutal" animals for.

Thoughts on Qur'an burning...

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