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Thoughts on Hell?

PROPHECYKID

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Hell has different meanings depending on the context. Hell is the grave, the place of the dead. Hell is also the lake of fire where the wicked will be burnt. The greek word hades, and hebrew word sheol means hell. They both mean the place of the dead. What we commonly call hell is the lake of fire. Hell is really not a place below the earth where the wicked are tormented now.
 
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Revelation 20:10 "The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever."

Skip ahead to verse 15,

"And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire."

Okay, so it says the devil and the beast and the prophet will be tormented forever, but this is also the place where the unsaved are thrown. So if it ties together, one can assume that the unsaved are tormented here forever as well.

Anyway, the lake of fire is called "the second death" in the bible which may be different from hell. After those scriptures in Revelation, there is no mention of a second resurrection, the first resurrection being the resurrection of those killed during the tribulation who did not serve the beast. So I see no indication of the punishment of the lake of fire not being eternal.
 
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PROPHECYKID

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Revelation 20:10 "The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever."

Skip ahead to verse 15,

"And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire."

Okay, so it says the devil and the beast and the prophet will be tormented forever, but this is also the place where the unsaved are thrown. So if it ties together, one can assume that the unsaved are tormented here forever as well.

Anyway, the lake of fire is called "the second death" in the bible which may be different from hell. After those scriptures in Revelation, there is no mention of a second resurrection, the first resurrection being the resurrection of those killed during the tribulation who did not serve the beast. So I see no indication of the punishment of the lake of fire not being eternal.

Most times the bible uses hell to refer to the grave or the place of the dead. In that sense it will be different to the lake of fire.
 
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Jeffwhosoever

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Revelation 20:10 "The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever."

Skip ahead to verse 15,

"And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire."

Okay, so it says the devil and the beast and the prophet will be tormented forever, but this is also the place where the unsaved are thrown. So if it ties together, one can assume that the unsaved are tormented here forever as well.

Anyway, the lake of fire is called "the second death" in the bible which may be different from hell. After those scriptures in Revelation, there is no mention of a second resurrection, the first resurrection being the resurrection of those killed during the tribulation who did not serve the beast. So I see no indication of the punishment of the lake of fire not being eternal.

AMEN!
 
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dante'sComedy

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~ we forget that the book of Revelation comes with a warning in the last Ch. 22.v.18-20.

This book holds special meaning to the Lamb, Christ Jesus toward those who follow Him.
The text is specific in context "And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire."
In the previous verse Death and Hades are cast into the lake of fire.

Theres no doubt about the meaning of the passage. Its literal.

And whoever would seek to twist the wording of this prophecy would put themselves in real spiritual danger.
This is not some piece of fiction thats open to interpretation by double minded and faithless men. This book is meant for the faithful and was given to John by the Spirit of God as a means of encouragement that God will have His way and Jesus reign will be an unending government. A kingdom where Christ Himself is the light that shines through out that city and upon the people of His love.

bless you ambulance jones for adhering to sound doctrine. For i've read some of the most ridiculous responses to threads. And I tell you they are enemies of Christ. They subvert the weak in their half-truths and do not hold fast to the Word of Life. Having a form of godliness but denying His power.
 
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ShermanN

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Sherman said:
the word Hell should NOT be in the Bible.
I fundamentally disagree with this statement. I've also studied the scripture and I don't reach the same conclusion. There is much more to consider than the tranalation of one word in Scripture.

I agree that there is more to consider than the translation of one word; but arriving at a correct translation of scripture is the starting place. If you will, please point out one word from the Hebrew or Greek text of scripture that correctly means "Hell". Sheol and Hades refer to the realm of the dead, and do not specifically mean "Hell". Tartaroo is only used in relation to sinning angles, not humans. And Gehenna literally translated means "the city trash dump"; and theologically translated means "Purgatory". (I point this out again for those who haven't read my previous post.)

Recognizing that there is not a Greek or Hebrew word that correctly interprets as "Hell" in the Bible is an important (not sole, but important) point to be considered on the topic of Hell.
 
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ShermanN

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Does Revelation's "lake of fire and brimstone" speak of endless torment? Frankly, it doesn't; rather, it, like Gehenna, speaks of Remedial Punishment in the afterlife - not endless torment.

First note that the book of Revelation itself is translated at least 4 different ways: Preterist, Historical, Metaphorical, and Futuristic. Preterist interpret this as having all been fulfilled shortly after the time John first penned Revelation. Those who interpret Revelation historically, see Revelation unfolded throughout history. Those who interpret Revelation metaphorically see it as a parable of the constant struggle between good and evil within us and in our families and communities. Those who interpret Revelation futuristically believe it speaks of end-time events; and of course, people interpret such futuristically in many different ways.

Why is it significant to note the multiple ways John's Revelation is translated? Because those who interpret Revelation from these different perspectives will interpret the Lake of Fire and Brimstone differently. I tend to see Revelation as a multifaceted diamond with each facet having an element of truth, but not the whole picture.

Second, even viewing Revelation futuristically, the Lake of fire and brimstone can be (should be imo) understood as Remedial Punishment. Note:

1) Brimstone, Greek - theon means "divine fire". Note that it's root word is theo which means God.

2) Brimstone, divine fire, was fire created by nature (not man) - lava, lightening, hot sulfur springs, oil fires, etc.

3) These "divine fires" smell of burning sulfur and thus sulfur itself was known as brimstone.

4) Sulfur (brimstone) was burnt in Greco-Roman "worship" as an incense for spiritual purification.

5) Sulfur (brimstone) was even commonly burnt as an incense for physical healing. (Even today many pharmeseuticals are sulfur based.)

6) Rev. 14.10 notes that the lake of fire was in the presence of the Lamb (a revelation of the Atonement) and the presence of the angles (a revelation of the ongoing provision and blessing of God).

7) Fire is used in the purification of metals, and is elsewhere in scripture spoken of as purifying our faith.

8) God is even referred to as a "consuming fire".

9) Paul speaks of fire burning up even the Christian's waisted acts (wood, hay, and stubble), and purifying one's goodness (precious metal of silver and gold).

When one considers these facts, I believe that the lake of fire and brimstone can be (should be) interpreted as "the volcanic lake of the fiery, purging, punishing, healing, purifying revelation of God, His grace and sacrifice!"
 
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Rajni

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Revelation 20:10 "The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever."

Skip ahead to verse 15,

"And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire."

Okay, so it says the devil and the beast and the prophet will be tormented forever, but this is also the place where the unsaved are thrown. So if it ties together, one can assume that the unsaved are tormented here forever as well.

Anyway, the lake of fire is called "the second death" in the bible which may be different from hell. After those scriptures in Revelation, there is no mention of a second resurrection, the first resurrection being the resurrection of those killed during the tribulation who did not serve the beast. So I see no indication of the punishment of the lake of fire not being eternal.
First thing one must realize is that the English words "forever", "eternal", and "everlasting" replace words that, in the original language, didn't denote endlessness. A list of verses that serve as examples of this can be found in my previous post in a related thread here.

Secondly, Revelation says that they will be tormented "day and night". The day/night cycle is itself temporary (Isaiah 60:19, Revelation 21:23,25, Revelation 22:5), so anything said to take place while that temporary cycle is established would itself be only finite in duration.


Thirdly, with regards to the 2nd death, since death itself gets abolished (2 Timothy 1:10, 1 Corinthians 15:26, Isaiah 28:18), any characteristics associated with it would also be eliminated. No more death, no need for further resurrection.


.


 
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PROPHECYKID

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Let me just add one verse to strengthen those points.

Jud 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

We all know that Sodom and gomorrha is not burning now. So words like eternal and forever can simply mean as long as the thing exist. God promised David that he will be King over Israel forever. David is not king over Israel. Is he? But as long as David lived from that point he was king of Israel, until he died.
 
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Epiphoskei

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God promised David that he will be King over Israel forever. David is not king over Israel. Is he? But as long as David lived from that point he was king of Israel, until he died.

God never promised David that. He promised him his throne would be established over Israel forever, i.e., "You shall never fail to have a man on the throne of Israel." We believe that promise to be fulfilled in Christ's actual literally eternal reign. The very name "Christ," or "anointed one," signifies this.
 
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PROPHECYKID

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God never promised David that. He promised him his throne would be established over Israel forever, i.e., "You shall never fail to have a man on the throne of Israel." We believe that promise to be fulfilled in Christ's actual literally eternal reign. The very name "Christ," or "anointed one," signifies this.

I give you that one. You are correct about that.
 
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First thing one must realize is that the English words "forever", "eternal", and "everlasting" replace words that, in the original language, didn't denote endlessness. A list of verses that serve as examples of this can be found in my previous post in a related thread.

Secondly, Revelation says that they will be tormented "day and night". The day/night cycle is itself temporary (Isaiah 60:19, Revelation 21:23,25, Revelation 22:5), so anything said to take place while that temporary cycle is established would itself be only finite in duration.

Thirdly, with regards to the 2nd death, since death itself gets abolished (2 Timothy 1:10, 1 Corinthians 15:26, Isaiah 28:18), any characteristics associated with it would also be eliminated. No more death, no need for further resurrection.


.

The Second death:

Revelation 20:6
Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power...

Revelation 20:14,25
Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

This sounds to me like the second death still holds the characteristics of death. Otherwise, I don't see what power it has over those who enter in to it.

Issue of eternity:

I read your scriptures in your link which most make sense. And your day and night idea also makes sense. But I have two questions. In Revelation 20:10, which I originally quoted, speaks of the devil and the beast and the false prophet being tormented forever, day and night. Are you suggesting that they will be released from this torment eventually to spread evil one again? This leads to my second question. In Revelation 22:5, it says "There shall be no night there: They need no lamp nor light of the sun, for the Lord God gives them light. And they shall reign forever and ever. Does this mean that the servants of God will not actually reign forever and ever?
 
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ShermanN

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Though this was written in response to chalea's post, I hope you don't mind me putting in my 2 cents.

The Second death:
Revelation 20:6
Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power...

Revelation 20:14,25
Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

This sounds to me like the second death still holds the characteristics of death. Otherwise, I don't see what power it has over those who enter in to it.

First, it's important to note that the phrase "second death" is unique to Revelation and thus is interpreted variously according to the different overall ways people interpret Revelation, whether it's from the Preterist's, historical, metaphorical, or furturist's view. Each mode of interpretation arrives at significantly different meanings for each of the metaphorical images presented in Revelation.

Second, even if one interprets Revelation's "second death" from a futurist view there are a couple of possible different meanings. Of course, one interpretation would be a cessasion of existance, the first death being a cessasion of physical existance, and the second being a cessation of spiritual existance.

Another possible interpretation is the death of one's flesh, one's self-centeredness. Paul seems to allude to this when he speaks of a brother being turned over to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, so that his spirit might be saved. This understanding also lines up with the "second death" being equated with the lake of fire and brimstone, which metaphorically spoke of spiritual fiery punishing purification as discussed in my previous post.

Taking these things into consideration, I believe the "second death" is another metaphor of spiritual purification, a death to self. And of course, death doesn't speak of endless torture, Hell; though many people read such into that phrase.

Issue of eternity:

I read your scriptures in your link which most make sense. And your day and night idea also makes sense. But I have two questions. In Revelation 20:10, which I originally quoted, speaks of the devil and the beast and the false prophet being tormented forever, day and night. Are you suggesting that they will be released from this torment eventually to spread evil one again?

First note that the word "tormented", basanizo, is also related to purification, particularly the purification of metals. Metal was tested, tortured, to reveal it's impurities so that they could be removed. Thus if the purpose of the tormenting is the purification of the one being tormented, then when one is purified, the evil has been burnt up. Fire only burns the dross, not the gold.


This leads to my second question. In Revelation 22:5, it says "There shall be no night there: They need no lamp nor light of the sun, for the Lord God gives them light. And they shall reign forever and ever. Does this mean that the servants of God will not actually reign forever and ever?

The word aionios is a word used to translate the Hebrew word olam, which has the connotation of that which is beyond sight, beyond the horizon, and is often used to indicate that which is beyond time, of the spiritual realm of eternity, that which is of the realm of the afterlife. It's believed that Plato actually coined the word aionios to describe that which is not part of our physical reality, but of the spiritual world that is not bound by time, eternal as opposed to temporal.

In this case, a literal translation would be "unto the ages of ages", and is not meant to be a technical phrase describing either an endlessness or a specific period of time, but is more poetic in its us, like when we say, "That took forever."

Again though, this translation is completely dependant upon how one interprets Revelation as a whole, whether from a Preterist, Historical, Metaphorical, or Futurist view.
 
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ShermanN

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Yes, Isa.66:22-24 is a very interesting passage. Let's look at it.

22 “As surely as my new heavens and earth will remain,
so will you always be my people,
with a name that will never disappear,”
says the Lord.
23 “All humanity will come to worship me
from week to week
and from month to month.
24 And as they go out, they will see
the dead bodies of those who have rebelled against me.
For the worms that devour them will never die,
and the fire that burns them will never go out.
All who pass by
will view them with utter horror.”

What a wonderful promise; some day "All Humanity" will worship God!

And apparently there is also a horrendous memorial warning of the terrible fruit of rebellion, a memorial of worms eating and fire burning decaying bodies! A memorial meant to illicit abject horror from those who reflect on it. Note though that it does not say that people are being subjected to such torture, much less that people will watch other people being tortured. Rather, it says that corpses, dead flesh, (not living people) shall be being burned and eaten by worms.

This reminds me of the very moving, sober, awful Memorial to the Holocaust in D.C. Such memorials are meant to teach us, to remind us of how terrible self-centeredness can be. When I recall the Holocost Memorial, there are so many lessons that one can learn from reflection on such a memorial. One lesson for me that the Holocaust Memorial brought to life, inspired, was that in order for evil to triumph, it only requires that the good do nothing; apathy is one of our greatest tools of the enemy of our souls.

It also reminds me of how some people who have been delivered from some terribly destructive life-style will keep around some memento of that life-style, something that reminds them of how destructive it was for them. They keep this as an encouragement to never go down that path again.
 
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help_the_lord

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It says very plainly That people don't suffer in a Hell and get poked with pitchforks and all of that non-sense. Your body dies and you stay dead upon the day of Judgement you Either go to Heaven or your soul is destroyed in Hell Fire.

LUKE 16:23-26* - 2PETER 2:4* - MATTHEW 5:29-30 - MATTHEW 16:18
MARK 9:43-48 - REVELATION 19:20 - REVELATION 20:11-15*
REVELATION 21:8
 
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What goes on there is the destruction of the wicked...according to the Bible. The book of Jude tells us that Sodom and Gomorah serve as an example of what will happen to the wicked. What happened to Sodom and Gomorah? They were destroyed...nothing left.

CC
I appreciate your information, but I just meant I don't know any of the specifics other than what the Bible says. I don't know what Hell is like as though I'd be in there.
 
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