Thoughts on Hell?

[chingchang]

It says very plainly That people don't suffer in a Hell and get poked with pitchforks and all of that non-sense. Your body dies and you stay dead upon the day of Judgement you Either go to Heaven or your soul is destroyed in Hell Fire.

LUKE 16:23-26* - 2PETER 2:4* - MATTHEW 5:29-30 - MATTHEW 16:18
MARK 9:43-48 - REVELATION 19:20 - REVELATION 20:11-15*
REVELATION 21:8

I agree 100% that this is the correct exegesis. You can add Luke 3:17 and Matthew 3:12 to that IMHO. The quality of the fire being 'unquenchable' means that it can not be put out...it will accomplish its purpose...which is destruction of the chaff.

Good-on-ya!
CC

 

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†. Rev 14:10-11 . . And the smoke of their torment rises for ever and ever. There is no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and his image, or for anyone who receives the mark of his name.

†. Rev 22:5 . .There will be no more night. They will not need the light of a lamp or the light of the sun, for the Lord God will give them light. And they will reign for ever and ever.

Some have attempted to combine those two passages in a futile attempt to prove that the torment of the people who receive the mark of the beast is temporary. However, it won't work because the absence of night is a condition existing only inside the new Jerusalem that comes down out of heaven, rather than the entire cosmos. Passages like Rev 21:9-27 and Rev 22:1-5 easily bear that out. Though the city itself will have no "need" of either sun or moon (Rev 21:23) that lack of need within the city doesn't preclude the necessity of a sun or of a moon, nor of a normal Day/Night cycle for the remainder of the new earth outside the city's limits.

But even if Day were the only condition existing in the entire cosmos: then since there is no rest either Day or Night for those who worship the beast and his image, or for anyone who receives the mark of his name; then they would suffer in the Day for as long as a Day condition exists.

Also, the biblical terms Day and Night are ambiguous and should never be construed to always indicate solar periods regardless of context. Take for example Gen 1:5, Gen 1:8, Gen 1:13 where Evenings and Mornings mark off periods of creative activity before there was either a sun or a moon or even any stars shining.

(Young's Literal Translation) . . and the smoke of their torment doth go up to ages of ages

A phrase like "ages of ages" clearly indicates a whole lot more ages than just one age. Some people's minds construe that to say "the end of the ages". But the literal of course won't support it. Ergo: the most anyone can safely ascertain from Rev 14:11 is that the torment will last indefinitely, 24-7, with no let up.

People who resort to parsing Greek words like ainon to prove their point commonly fail to take into consideration that grammar and syntax govern the way words should be translated into the English language. Also, nouns in the Bible are often set in a plural context. The unscholarly practice of cherry-picking words out of a lexicon such as the Strong's Concordance is a very amateurish way to create one's own personal translation of the ancient languages because Strong's nouns are typically listed in singular. In order to ascertain the plural, one must look to a word-for-word interlinear Bible. But why go to the bother? Scholars and linguists have already done the work for us in producing perfectly good English translations in common use in seminaries, Bible colleges, pulpits, and Sunday school classes.

Incidentally, even the Jehovah's Witness bible translates the key phrase in Rev 14:11 as "ages of ages". Not that I'm recommending either their Bible or their religion. I'm just pointing out that limiting ainon to a singular context in Rev14:11 is something a cult doesn't even do. To do so would not only be wrong, but also intellectually dishonest.

†. 1Cor 15:34 . . Come back to your senses as you ought, and stop sinning; for there are some who lack the knowledge of God— I say this to your shame.

C.L.I.F.F.
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I often receive criticism from professing Christians for discussing a depressing topic like eternal suffering at Christmas time. But those "Christians" seem to forget that Hell is an essential component of the New Testament's gospel, and the very reason why its Jesus came into the world to die.

The Bible's hell is not a place you want to be. If people in there could step on somebody right now to get out; I guarantee you they wouldn't hesitate to climb up out of there on the bodies of their own children. People up here on the surface just don't appreciate how bad it is down there or they would flock to Jesus for safety— bellowing, yelping, shouldering, and stepping all over each other —like an insane crowd of holiday shoppers stampeding through the doors of Macy's when they open for business on Black Friday; they would trample everybody in their way just for a chance to grab the Lord's garment and beg for mercy.

According to Christ's testimony as an expert witness in all matters pertaining to the afterlife, the majority of the human race hasn't been making it to safety.

†. Mtt 7:13-14 . . Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

†. Mtt 22:14 . . For many are invited, but few are chosen.

Webster's defines many as: consisting of, or amounting to, a large but indefinite number

few is defined as: consisting of, or amounting to, only a small number; viz: not many; i.e. some, but indeterminately small in number

According to Webster's then; few means a small percentage, and many means a large percentage; viz: most. Here's how that looks fleshed out.

As of 12/25/09 at 10:20 am New York time, there were approximately 308,226,935 people alive in the USA with a death rate of approximately one every 12 seconds; which amounts to 7,200 American deaths during just one 24-hour day.

Allowing for say, 1/3rd of those daily American deaths to be underage children, that would leave 4,800 adult-age Americans crossing over to the other side every day. Giving them the benefit of the doubt by setting the minimum "many" percentage at 51%, would indicate that 2,448 Americans transfer to perdition each day: roughly 102 per hour.

That's a very conservative estimate as Christ didn't really specify exact percentages to represent the quantities few and many in the passages I referenced. Just think; by the time Brian Williams completes his half-hour evening report, a bare bones minimum of 51 Americans have crossed over to the Bible's hell. Who do you know of that died recently? Where did they go? Were they one of the many, or one of the few?

Using the ratio of 102 condemned souls per hour per 308,226,935 population: computing the number of condemned souls worldwide from a currently estimated population of 6,792,294,154 rounds out to something like 2,248 international arrivals in Hell every sixty minutes on the clock. Those numbers would fill the new 51,800 seat Yankee Stadium in just under twenty-four hours with three minutes to spare.

The Bible's hell is like a Sarlacc Pit, where souls never stop cascading into its ghastly maw in an endless stream like chocolate kisses rolling off a Hershey's conveyor belt.

Christmas and New Year's are even worse. A study done of 26 years of death certificates shows that coronary fatalities are, on average, 11.9% higher on those days than any other days of the year; with non-heart deaths spiking to 12.2% higher; and believe me folks, the Bible's God makes no exceptions for those holidays; no, none at all.

†. Luke 16:24 . .The rich man shouted: Father Abraham, have some pity! Send Lazarus over here to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in anguish in these flames.

Too late moron.

†. Pro 1:24-33 . . I called you so often, but you didn't come. I reached out to you, but you paid no attention. You ignored my advice and rejected the correction I offered. So I will laugh when you are in trouble! I will mock you when disaster overtakes you— when calamity overcomes you like a hurricane, when you are engulfed by trouble, and when anguish and distress overwhelm you.

. . I will not answer when they cry for help. Even though they anxiously search for me, they will not find me. For they hated knowledge and chose not to reverence the Lord. They rejected my advice and paid no attention when I corrected them. That is why they must eat the bitter fruit of living their own way. They must experience the full terror of the path they have chosen. For they are stupid who turn away from me to death. They are dunces, and their own complacency will destroy them. But all who listen to me will live in peace and safety, unafraid of harm.

†. Isa 66:23-24 . . All humanity will come to worship me from week to week and from month to month. And as they go out, they will see the dead bodies of those who have rebelled against me. For the worms that devour them will never die, and the fire that burns them will never go out. All who pass by will view them with utter horror. (cf. Mrk 9:43-48)

The reference to "all humanity" is of course limited to the living. By no stretch of the imagination can those roasting bodies infested with worms be construed as alive.

C.L.I.F.F.
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Heaven is a place of peace. There are certain kinds of people who will never be allowed to go there because it wouldn't be fair to the others; and in no time at all God's kingdom would become another earth.

There'd be discord, hatred, factions, cliques, mistrust, prejudice, bias, caste systems, double standards, partiality, favoritism, deceit, surmising, dishonesty, gossip, slander, sarcasm, cynicism, ridicule, envy, jealousy, rivalry, resentment, avarice, greed, gossip, character assassination, kangaroo courts, complaining, tattling, meddling, confrontations, quarreling, assertiveness, chafing, trickery, grudging, stonewalling, bitterness, silent treatments, revenge, stubbornness, cold shouldering, snobbery, egotism, dominance, demeaning comments, insults, rebellion, arrogance, attitudes, subterfuge, treachery, betrayal, suspicion, conceit, vanity, superiority complexes, depression, melancholy, panic attacks, bi-polar disorders, antisocial behaviors, sociopaths, crime, war, despotism, oppression, injustice, civil rights abuses, etc, etc, et al, and ad nausea.

I once heard a tale told by a preacher about a 30-day pass given to a busload of Hell's inmates for R&R in Heaven. They all came back the first night because they didn't fit in— it was an alien world that had nothing to offer them. They were actually happier in Hell because they could be themselves there without somebody constantly looking over their shoulder.

C.L.I.F.F.
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The abolishment of death is in two tenses.

Past:

†. 2Tim 1:10 . . Our Savior Jesus Christ, who has abolished death, and has brought life and immortality to light through the gospel

Future:

†. 1Cor 15:26 . .The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

In order to properly understand the future abolishment of death, it's first necessary to understand how Christ abolished it in the past.

†. Rom 6:9 . . For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, he cannot die again; death no longer has any control over him.

In other words; Christ died with mortality, and came back with immortality. Hold that thought, and carry it with you to 1Cor 15:26. What Christ abolished in the past was not every last aspect of death; but rather, mortality; which Webster's defines as: subject to death. In other words, if you can be killed; then you are subject to death.

However, Christ didn't abolish mortality for everyone; no, just for himself. So then, if people wish to be immortal in the future, then it's essential that they become one of his followers in the present.

†. Rom 6:3-5 . . Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life. If we have been united with him like this in his death, we will certainly also be united with him in his resurrection.

†. Col 2:11-13 . . In him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ— buried with him in baptism, in which you also were raised with him through faith in the operation of God, who raised him from the dead.

Also see John 6:35-58 for a lengthy treatise on immortality for Jesus' followers by means of the bread of life.

People who fail to unite themselves with Christ in his resurrection won't be raised from the dead immortal. Unbelievers then, obviously won't be resurrected with immortality (Rev 21:8). No, they are slated to die yet one more time in the reservoir of liquefied flame; and since there is only one resurrection per person; they won't be coming back.

†. John 5:27-30 . . The hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth— those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.

Bonus Round:

†. 1Cor 15:20 . . But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

Jesus is called the firstfruits of them that slept. How can that be true since numbers of people came back from death before he did? Answer: none of them came back with immortality. In other words, they all failed to overcome death and were taken by it yet again. But not Jesus. No, he abolished death's control over his body by coming back immortal.

†. Rom 6:9 . . For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, he cannot die again; death no longer has any control over him.

C.L.I.F.F.
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Just for the fun of it, I'm going re-translate Dan 12:2 in order to force it to align with Universalism's wishes.

†. And the multitude of those sleeping in the dust of the ground do awake, some to life; age-during, and some to reproaches— to abhorrence; age-during. (Young's Literal Translation)

To what "age" is Young's referring? Well, the criminal court proceedings depicted at the Great White Throne of Rev 20:11-15 inaugurate the new cosmos since the very next order of business, chronologically, in the book of Revelation, is the bringing in of a new earth and a new universe wherein God himself shall be on-site.

†. Rev 20:11 . . And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

[insert the day of the Dead here]

†. Rev 21:1-5 . . And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

. . And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying: Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

. . And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. And he that sat upon the throne said: Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

Previous ages in the Bible can be said to be innings of a baseball game. But the coming age is not an inning, no, it's not an inning; it's the main event.

†. Dan 7:13-14 . . I was observing in the night visions, and behold, one like a son of Adam coming with the clouds of heaven! He came to the Ancient of Days, and they escorted Him near before Him. Then to him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom, that all peoples, nations, and languages should serve him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom the one which shall not be destroyed.

So then, the luckless souls that perish in the reservoir of liquefied flame depicted at Rev 20:11-15 will never regain their dignity; no, they will always, and permanently, be shameful and contemptible. While the citizens of the new cosmos are kicking up their heels and enjoying immortality, the dead will be serving themselves up as food for a strange variety of fire-resistant worm.

†. Isa 66:23-24 . . All humanity will come to worship me from week to week and from month to month. And as they go out, they will see the dead bodies of those who have rebelled against me. For the worms that devour them will never die, and the fire that burns them will never go out. All who pass by will view them with utter horror.

The reference to "all humanity" is of course limited to the living. By no stretch of the imagination can those flame-broiled, worm-infested bodies be construed as alive.

†. Mrk 9:43-48 . . If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life maimed, rather than having two hands, to go to hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched

. . And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life lame, rather than having two feet, to be cast into hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched

. . And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye, rather than having two eyes, to be cast into hell fire

The Greek word for hell fire in Jesus' testimony at Mrk 9:43-48 is geena (gheh'-en-nah) a different word than the Haides of Luke 16:19-31

Geena identifies a valley near Jerusalem that apparently once served as the ancient city's landfill, where fires were kept burning day and night doing the double duty of incinerating a constant waste-stream of urban refuse and the cadavers of dead animals and low income citizens. Geena was a common colloquialism in Jesus' day for what we in our day speak of as Hell.

Geena is spoken of twelve times in the New Testament— eleven by Jesus, and once by James. In all twelve instances; geena is associated with fire.

The geena of God is not a pretty picture. One only had to look at Jerusalem's dump site back in Jesus' day to obtain a graphic picture of possible conditions to expect; what with all the fire, the rubbish, the garbage, the smoke, the smell, the discards, the vermin, and the decomposing bodies and carcasses

Christian and non Christian alike often bleat that the Bible's God is love, love, love. But even the God of love has a dump, and a portion of its contents will one day consist of the remains of human beings rather than just regular trash and garbage.

An interesting concept to associate with a dump is the necessity of sanitary disposal; which is really what landfills are designed to accomplish in order to prevent the spread of disease; which suggests that people in geena are both toxic and infectous.

†. Mtt 9:12 . .They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick.

When The Lord returns, the first order of business is a thorough Spring cleaning followed by a trip to the dump.

†. Mtt 13:41-42 . . I, the Son of man, will send my angels, and they will remove from my kingdom everything that's offensive, and all who do evil, and they will throw them into the furnace and burn them. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

†. Mal 4:1 . . For, behold, the day comes, that shall burn as an oven; and all the arrogant, yes, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that comes shall burn them up— testifies the Lord of Hosts —that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.

Needless to say, a tree with neither root nor branch is not coming back; no, it's not even a tree anymore; it's ashes.

C.L.I.F.F.
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†. Isa 52:14-15 . .There were many who were appalled at him— his appearance was so disfigured beyond that of any man and his form marred beyond human resemblance —thus will he sprinkle many nations,

Who mutilated Christ? The Romans? Well, Pilate's guards did slap him around a bit and punch him in the face, but it was Jesus' own Father that really did him in. Man had done all he could do to Christ, but when those three hours of darkness settled in, it was God's turn to take a crack at him.

†. Isa 53:10 . .It was Yhh's will to crush him and cause him to suffer

Small wonder then that Christ's friends didn't expect him back from the dead. The man they buried was so tore up he wasn't even recognizable. If God would do that to His own son, a son whom He dearly cherishes, then what do you suppose Jesus' father has in store for those who mock the cross?

†. Heb 10:28-29 . . Anyone who refused to obey the law of Moses was put to death without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. Think how much more terrible the punishment will be for those who have trampled on God's son and have treated the blood of the covenant as if it were common and secular. Such people have insulted and enraged the Holy Spirit who brings God's mercy to His people.

In the movie Amadeus, Mozart's wife Constanze secretly brings a sample of the maestro's music to court composer Antonio Salieri in order to review it in a competition to win the position of music tutor for Emperor Joseph II's niece. After reviewing Mozart's music, and recognizing the skills and abilities of a genius far beyond his own, Salieri drops the sheets of carefully penned originals to the floor, and insolently treads on them on his way out of the room.

Salieri, in a mood of indignation, resentment, rivalry, and envy; walked upon a thing of genius and beauty like as if it were merely rubbish left behind by a careless janitor. Unforgivable.

The thing that makes trampling the cross so much more serious than trampling Mozart's music is that the crucifixion regards God's own next of kin, His one and only beloved son; His "flesh and blood" so to speak. You know, it's one thing to be hauled into court for spitting on somebody's car, but it's quite another to be hauled in for spitting on the judge's car.

C.L.I.F.F.
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Most times the bible uses hell to refer to the grave or the place of the dead. In that sense it will be different to the lake of fire.

Revelation says that Death and Hades were thrown into the Lake of Fire. Hell/Hades is merely a prelude to the Lake of Fire. So one who is dammed goes to Hell first, then the Lake of Fire later.

Hell and the Lake of Fire are not remedial because there is no end to the torment, according to the Bible. So there is no positive purpose served, other than to deter people who are now alive to turn to God and accept Christ.

Almost every pre-Christian culture had a version of Hell. The word "Hell" is the correct translation of the Greek Hades (the Greek cultural word for Hell) into the English Anglo-Saxon word for the same thing, just like translating aqua into water. Hades and Hell mean the same thing. One is Greek, one is English. Gehenna is the cultural Hebrew word for the same thing.

 

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Revelation says that Death and Hades were thrown into the Lake of Fire. Hell/Hades is merely a prelude to the Lake of Fire. So one who is dammed goes to Hell first, then the Lake of Fire later.

Hell and the Lake of Fire are not remedial because there is no end to the torment, according to the Bible. So there is no positive purpose served, other than to deter people who are now alive to turn to God and accept Christ.

Almost every pre-Christian culture had a version of Hell. The word "Hell" is the correct translation of the Greek Hades (the Greek cultural word for Hell) into the English Anglo-Saxon word for the same thing, just like translating aqua into water. Hades and Hell mean the same thing. One is Greek, one is English. Gehenna is the cultural Hebrew word for the same thing.

One small thing, people in hades and death and the sea are judged. So they can go to heaven or the lake of fire.

 

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RE: One small thing, people in hades and death and the sea are judged. So they can go to heaven or the lake of fire.

A seemingly insignificant detail easily overlooked by a cursory reading of Rev 20:11-15 is that that are no living brought up to stand trial. The dead are mentioned four times, while the living aren't mentioned at all and there's good reason for their absence.

The dead brought up from Haides (Rev 20:13) are people on the rich man's side of the barrier of Luke 16:19-31. The people on Abraham's side of the barrier aren't among the dead; on the contrary, they're among the living. I know that's true because Jesus said so. (Mrk 12:26-27)

How do people escape Death and join the ranks of the Living? Answer: by means of belief.

†. John 5:24 . . I assure you, those who heed my message, and believe in God who sent me, have eternal life. They will never be condemned for their sins, but they have already passed from Death into Life.

†. Eph 2:1-5 . . At one time you were dead, doomed forever because of your many sins. You used to live just like the rest of the world, full of sin, obeying Satan, the mighty prince of the power of the air. He is the spirit at work in the hearts of those who refuse to obey God. All of us used to live that way, following the passions and desires of our base nature. We were born with a base nature, and we were under God's wrath just like everyone else. But God is so rich in mercy, and he loved us so very much, that even while we were dead because of our sins, he gave us life when he raised Christ from the dead.

†. Rom 6:11 . . Count yourselves . . alive to God in Christ Jesus.

†. Rom 6:13 . . Offer yourselves to God, as those who have been brought from death to life

So then, if you should find yourself brought up to stand trial at the Great White Throne, know that it's for the worst because that day in court is not to determine who goes to heaven and who doesn't. No, it's to determine the quantity of punishment the dead merit prior to their transfer to the reservoir of liquefied flame. This is frightening because the judgment of God is very thorough: eye for eye, tooth for tooth, stripe for stripe, burning for burning, etc. The scales of justice have to balance. Let me give you an idea of just how serious this really is.

Supposing the penalty for a lie is 5 lashes and the accused has 200 counts of lying against them. That means that each count will receive 5 lashes, adding up to 1,000 lashes for those 200 lies. But that's only the beginning.

Suppose the penalty for using God's name in profanity is 30 lashes, and that same offender's lifetime accumulation is 500 counts of blasphemy; which isn't an unreasonable number of counts for someone who lived to be sixty or seventy. They would be given 30 lashes for each of those 500 counts; adding up to 15,000 lashes on top of the 1,000 they already received for 200 lies.

According to the Bible's Christ, human beings will have to answer for not only their serious words, but also for their careless words (Mtt 12:36). Supposing the penalty for defamation of character is 15 lashes and that same offender, over the years— via gossip, demeaning comments, arbitrary accusations, rumor mongering, kangaroo-court convictions, and thoughtless remarks —impugned innocent reputations a total of 85 times. They would receive 15 lashes for each count, adding up to a total of 1,275 lashes.

So then, for just those three crimes alone— lies, blasphemy, and idle words —that individual offender would be given a grand total of 17,275 lashes.

It gets worse. Offenders who knew at the time that what they were doing was wrong, will be punished much more severely than those who did so uninformed.

†. Luke 12:47-48 . . And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes.

In reality then, long life can be a curse rather than a blessing, and for some people, it would have been far better if they had died as a child than to face God as a senior citizen. By the time the dead are carried out of the Bible God's courtroom to be discarded still breathing into the reservoir of flaming liquid spoken of in Rev 20:11-15, they will look as though they were dragged through a field of concertina wire and then dropped into a cotton gin.

It's very likely then that many of the dead will not only have their flesh flayed open; but suffer a number of broken bones, paralysis, blindness, deafness, and loss of their capacity to speak intelligibly; because for some offenses, it takes way more than a whipping to set things right. But the living will not have even so much as have a scratch on them.

†. Rom 5:9 . . And since we have been made righteous in God's sight by the blood of Christ, he will certainly protect us from the wrath of God.

†. 1Thss 5:9 . . For God has not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain protection in our Lord Jesus Christ

Another seemingly insignificant detail often overlooked by the untrained eye is that believers are in possession of eternal life right now— no delay and no waiting period. Note the grammatical tense of the "have" verb in the following passages. It's in the present tense, not future.

†. John 5:24 . . I assure you, those who heed my message, and believe in God who sent me, have eternal life. They will never be condemned for their sins, but they have already passed from Death into Life.

†. 1John 5:13 . .These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life

†. John 3:36 . . He who believes in the Son has eternal life

†. John 6:47 . . I assure you; he who believes has eternal life.

In addition: people who correctly dine upon Jesus' flesh, and correctly imbibe his blood; are also in the right-now possession of eternal life the same as believers.

†. John 6:53-56 . .Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life

Since eternal life is a kind of life that cannot die, then people who possess it are impervious to the wages of sin.

†. Rom 6:23 . .The wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life in Messiah Jesus our Lord.

I fully expect to be present at the Great White Throne, but not as a defendant; rather, as a witness in the prosecution's case against many of the people I have known on this earth, and/or crossed paths; including, but not limited to, my own biological parents and siblings.

I would imagine that as the grim finality of the dead's fate finally sinks into those thick, secular skulls of theirs that they will be literally pale with terror, lips trembling, mouths too dry to speak, screaming, shrieking, stammering, yelping, and sobbing— skin white and pasty from mortal panic; eyes darting about looking for something, anything, to clutch and cling to as powerful spirit beings drag them off to a terrible, permanent existence in a flaming substance. Thank God that ghastly scene won't be permanently etched into my memory.

†. Rev 7:17 . . For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.

†. Rev 21:4-5 . . And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. And He that sat upon the throne said: Behold, I make all things new. And He said unto me, Write: for these words are true and reliable.

FYI: The "good" that the dead do in life won't mitigate their bad.

†. Ezek 3:20 . . When a righteous man turns from his righteousness, and commits iniquity . . he shall die in his sin, and his righteousness which he has done shall not be remembered

The dead in "death and the sea" refers to the physical remains of the Haides dead; so that two aspects of death are on view in Rev 20:11-15; the spirits of the dead, and the bodies of the dead; which will be reunited to stand trial; viz: the Great White Throne event is the resurrection of the damned spoken of by the prophets Christ and Daniel.

†. Dan 12:2 . . And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, Some to everlasting life; some to shame and everlasting contempt.

†. John 5:27-30 . . The hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth— those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.

Since there is only one resurrection per person, then victims of the second death spoken of in Rev 2:11, 20:6, 20:14, and 21:8 are not coming back.

Bonus Round: What are some salient mannerisms of the dead?

Well, according to Rev 21:8 a few are:

1) Dishonesty

2) Promiscuity

3) Alchemy (sorcery, voodoo, necromancy, witchcraft, potions)

4) Idolatry

5) Repulsive practices (e.g. homosexuality, lesbianism, pedophilia, bestiality, and incest)

6) Murder

C.L.I.F.F.
/

 

[True_Blue]

One small thing, people in hades and death and the sea are judged. So they can go to heaven or the lake of fire.

You are right--strictly speaking the Bible does not require that people in Hell be sent to the Lake of Fire. My mind really really likes this reasoning, but something in my heart tells me it isn't true.

 

[True_Blue]

.
†. Rev 14:10-11 . . And the smoke of their torment rises for ever and ever. There is no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and his image, or for anyone who receives the mark of his name.

†. Rev 22:5 . .There will be no more night. They will not need the light of a lamp or the light of the sun, for the Lord God will give them light. And they will reign for ever and ever.

Some have attempted to combine those two passages in a futile attempt to prove that the torment of the people who receive the mark of the beast is temporary. However, it won't work because the absence of night is a condition existing only inside the new Jerusalem that comes down out of heaven, rather than the entire cosmos. Passages like Rev 21:9-27 and Rev 22:1-5 easily bear that out. Though the city itself will have no "need" of either sun or moon (Rev 21:23) that lack of need within the city doesn't preclude the necessity of a sun or of a moon, nor of a normal Day/Night cycle for the remainder of the new earth outside the city's limits.

But even if Day were the only condition existing in the entire cosmos: then since there is no rest either Day or Night for those who worship the beast and his image, or for anyone who receives the mark of his name; then they would suffer in the Day for as long as a Day condition exists.

Also, the biblical terms Day and Night are ambiguous and should never be construed to always indicate solar periods regardless of context. Take for example Gen 1:5, Gen 1:8, Gen 1:13 where Evenings and Mornings mark off periods of creative activity before there was either a sun or a moon or even any stars shining.

(Young's Literal Translation) . . and the smoke of their torment doth go up to ages of ages

A phrase like "ages of ages" clearly indicates a whole lot more ages than just one age. Some people's minds construe that to say "the end of the ages". But the literal of course won't support it. Ergo: the most anyone can safely ascertain from Rev 14:11 is that the torment will last indefinitely, 24-7, with no let up.

People who resort to parsing Greek words like ainon to prove their point commonly fail to take into consideration that grammar and syntax govern the way words should be translated into the English language. Also, nouns in the Bible are often set in a plural context. The unscholarly practice of cherry-picking words out of a lexicon such as the Strong's Concordance is a very amateurish way to create one's own personal translation of the ancient languages because Strong's nouns are typically listed in singular. In order to ascertain the plural, one must look to a word-for-word interlinear Bible. But why go to the bother? Scholars and linguists have already done the work for us in producing perfectly good English translations in common use in seminaries, Bible colleges, pulpits, and Sunday school classes.

Incidentally, even the Jehovah's Witness bible translates the key phrase in Rev 14:11 as "ages of ages". Not that I'm recommending either their Bible or their religion. I'm just pointing out that limiting ainon to a singular context in Rev14:11 is something a cult doesn't even do. To do so would not only be wrong, but also intellectually dishonest.

†. 1Cor 15:34 . . Come back to your senses as you ought, and stop sinning; for there are some who lack the knowledge of God— I say this to your shame.

C.L.I.F.F.
/

I think this is an outstanding analysis, and I applaud you. I would only say that the reference in Genesis to days does unambiguously refer to 24 hours--"and it was evening and it was morning, the __ day."

 

[Webers_Home]

.
Of all the comments I've ever composed about Hell over the years, this one is perhaps the most disturbing; so if there are underage children present, you might want to shoo them out of the room before continuing.

Lorena Bobbitt made news in 1993 by mutilating her husband with a carving knife while he was asleep. She was later acquitted by reason of insanity. Lorena's conduct was excusable under law because of her mental state; but there are perfectly rational, sane women out and about who would be overjoyed with ecstasy to mutilate a man.

On August 01, 2009, four angry women— Therese A. Ziemann, 47, Wendy L. Sewell, 44, Michelle M. Belliveau, 43, and Tracy M. Hood-Davis, 30 —were charged in Stockbridge Wisconsin for luring a married man to a motel room where they tied him up and blindfolded him, slapped him around for a while; then removed his knickers and used super glue to attach his private to his stomach in retaliation for two-timing them. I really have to wonder what in God's name is going on inside those women's heads.

Anyway, my point is that Heaven is a place of peace. Women whose imaginations are laced with wicked thoughts, having hearts infected with a brutal desire to mutilate men, simply can't go there. They would hate Heaven anyway because they couldn't be themselves there and would never fit in. They would not only be prevented from mutilating men, but they wouldn't even be permitted the cruel enjoyment of slapping men in the face like so many women in Hollywood movies do and get away with it even though assault and battery is a felony crime punishable by time behind bars.

The lake of fire depicted in Rev 19:20, 20:11-15, and 21:8 is a burning death, so that if gorgeous girls like say Beyonce Knowles and Paris Hilton are among the damned, they will have to lose their faces and figures yet one more time via a horribly disfiguring mode of death akin to burning at the stake. The lake of liquefied flame will be a terrible heartbreak for the beautiful people.

In fire and ice, the first parts of the human body to be effected are the extremities: ears, nose, toes, fingers, and lips. And in the case of women, extremities would include their bosom. You twisted, man-hating women out there in cyberspace should be thinking about that. Existing in the lake of fire is going to be bad enough all by itself alone; but it's the first few moments that will be the worst part. The first thing to go will be your hair, and then extremities. Your bosom is soft and vulnerable; and will not survive unscathed in total bodily immersion in a liquefied flame; and guess which gender of the human race will be responsible for your third degree burns?

†. Acts 17:31 . . For God has set a day for judging the world with justice by the man He has appointed, and He proved to everyone who this is by raising him from the dead.

In the end, it will be the sweet little gentle, turn-the-other-cheek baby Jesus who casts malicious women into Hell and permanently ruins any chances they might have had for happiness in the future. For all eternity, condemned man-haters will grind their teeth with hot tears and white-knuckled fury that they ultimately lost out on everything because of one lone male's obsessive control over their lives; and I have no doubt whatsoever they will entertain years of happy-thoughts dreaming of mutilating Christ should they perchance ever manage to get their hands on him.

NOTE: there will no doubt be some bent noses over this post and see it as denigrating to women (while conveniently ignoring that it's a double standard to think it's okay to denigrate men). Well, I have to ask, since when did women become a protected species? Well, maybe on earth, but I can assure you they will not be given the slightest consideration for their gender at the Great White Throne of Rev 20:11-15. Just as many women, if not more, will be thrown into Hell as men.

Anything you can do,
I can do better.
I can do anything
Better than you.

Anything you can be
I can be greater.
Sooner or later,
I'm greater than you.

Anything you can buy
I can buy cheaper.
I can buy anything
Cheaper than you.

I can drink my liquor
Faster than a flicker.
I can drink it quicker
And get even sicker!

Anything you can wear
I can wear better.
In what you wear
I'd look better than you.

Anything you say
I can say faster.
I can say anything
Faster than you.

I can jump a hurdle.
I can wear a girdle.
I can knit a sweater.
I can fill it better!

Anything you can sing
I can sing sweeter.
I can sing anything
Sweeter than you.

Irving Berlin 1946
Annie Get Your Gun
_______________________________________

I am woman, hear me roar
In numbers too big to ignore
And I know too much to go back an' pretend
'cause I've heard it all before
And I've been down there on the floor
No one's ever gonna keep me down again

You can bend but never break me
'cause it only serves to make me
More determined to achieve my final goal
And I come back even stronger
Not a novice any longer
'cause you've deepened the conviction in my soul

I am woman watch me grow
See me standing toe to toe
As I spread my lovin' arms across the land
But I'm still an embryo
With a long, long way to go
Until I make my brother understand

Oh yes I am wise
But it's wisdom born of pain
Yes, I've paid the price
But look how much I gained
If I have to I can face anything
I am strong (strong)
I am invincible (invincible)
I am woman
Oh, I am woman
I am invincible
I am strong

Helen Reddy
_________________________________________

Women want equality? They want a level playing field and no glass ceiling? The lake is where they will finally get their wish.

†. Rom 2:11 . . There is no favoritism with God.

†. Rev 20:15 . . And whosoever's name was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

C.L.I.F.F.
/