Thought this belonged here

[Carey]

Originally Posted by youdahman

How about we go with neither common sense or emotions and stick with the bible

Galatians 3:29 (Whole Chapter)
And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

What promise is he talking about?

The promise of Salvation.

He is talking about the promise of the City once it descends onto Jerusalem after Jesus returns. But that does not nulify the promise of the land of Canaan too Abrahams Genetic descendents.



Romans 4:16 (Whole Chapter)
Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

NOTICE, it was the faith of ABRAHAM, not his blood lineage, that was important to God concerning his promise.

That is right because of Abrahams faith his genetic heirs recieved the promise of the land of Canaan everlasting and they were not required to have that faith because they were and are his genetic decenedents.

But for those of us who are not his genetic decendents and his genetic decendents both need faith if we want to recieve the SEPERATE COVENANT PROMISE of SALVATION

Acts 3:25 (Whole Chapter)
Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.

again, correlating with Galatians 3:29 about Abraham's seed who includes Spiritual Israel.

HOW? THROUGH THE FAITH OF Abraham, not his blood. That faith points directly to Jesus Christ.

So while you look at the physical and genetic things the truth is we should be looking at what the bible emphasizes, the fruits of the spirit.
​

No we should look at the truth and not false doctrine.

Here is what the Bible plainly says.

It says Because of Abrahams faith his genetic heirs would have the land of canaan everlasting.

The Bible also says if any of us including Abrahams genetic heirs do not have faith we will not recieve the KIngdom when it comes. The genetic heirs of Abraham will always have their land of Canaan until Jesus returns
but that does not garauntee them Heaven.

So understand this is not a lie.

If you want to go look at the bazillion posts I have made on this topic with all the perinent verses from the Bible have at it.

I already went through this with a few other confused and decieved bro's and sis's on this site. I don't have the time any more to go through it.

But if you have been given understanding then you can read this and know what you are saying is not wrong it is only half right.


Isaiah 60

The Glory of Zion

This started when Jesus was born
1 "Arise, shine, for your light has come,
and the glory of the LORD rises upon you.


2 See, darkness covers the earth
and thick darkness is over the peoples,
but the LORD rises upon you
and his glory appears over you.

This will happen after Jesus returns
3 Nations will come to your light,
and kings to the brightness of your dawn.

This started in 1948 AND IS STILL IN THE PROCESS TODAY
4 "Lift up your eyes and look about you:
All assemble and come to you;
your sons come from afar,
and your daughters are carried on the arm.
5 Then you will look and be radiant,
your heart will throb and swell with joy;
the wealth on the seas will be brought to you,
to you the riches of the nations will come.

This has started but all from Sheba will not prause the Lord until he returns and conquers 6 Herds of camels will cover your land,
young camels of Midian and Ephah.
And all from Sheba will come,
bearing gold and incense
and proclaiming the praise of the LORD.

This is future tense for us today because the Temple has not yet been rebuilt but Israel already has the Blueprints and plans to rebuild it.

7 All Kedar's flocks will be gathered to you,
the rams of Nebaioth will serve you;
they will be accepted as offerings on my altar,
and I will adorn my glorious temple.

This is the Israeli airforce
8 "Who are these that fly along like clouds,
like doves to their nests?

This started in 1948 and is still in the process to this day.
9 Surely the islands look to me;
in the lead are the ships of Tarshish, [a]
bringing your sons from afar,
with their silver and gold,
to the honor of the LORD your God,
the Holy One of Israel,
for he has endowed you with splendor.

This started in 1948 and is still in the process today.He was angry because of Pagn worship and non circumcision. They stopped pagan worship and started circumcsing again which was the only prerequisit for them having their land of Canaan because of ABRahame faith not theirs.
10 "Foreigners will rebuild your walls,
and their kings will serve you.
Though in anger I struck you,
in favor I will show you compassion.

This has not YET happened but is going to in the near future. 11 Your gates will always stand open,
they will never be shut, day or night,
so that men may bring you the wealth of the nations—
their kings led in triumphal procession.


Some nations like PALESTINE and HITLERS REGIME and SADDAMS REGIME
have already experienced this and more will in our immediate future.
12 For the nation or kingdom that will not serve you will perish;
it will be utterly ruined.

This will probably be the next prophecy fulfilled in your lifetime you will see with your own eyes. Watch and behold the power of Yahweh the Father.
13 "The glory of Lebanon will come to you,
the pine, the fir and the cypress together,
to adorn the place of my sanctuary;
and I will glorify the place of my feet.

This is in the near future as well
14 The sons of your oppressors will come bowing before you;
all who despise you will bow down at your feet
and will call you the City of the LORD,
Zion of the Holy One of Israel.

This is also future rense after Jesus returns.
15 "Although you have been forsaken and hated,
with no one traveling through,
I will make you the everlasting pride
and the joy of all generations.

This started happening in 1948 and is still going on today.
16 You will drink the milk of nations
and be nursed at royal breasts.
Then you will know that I, the LORD, am your Savior,
your Redeemer, the Mighty One of Jacob.

This started happening in 1948 but is not yet totally fulfilled.
17 Instead of bronze I will bring you gold,
and silver in place of iron.
Instead of wood I will bring you bronze,
and iron in place of stones.
I will make peace your governor
and righteousness your ruler.
18 No longer will violence be heard in your land,
nor ruin or destruction within your borders,
but you will call your walls Salvation
and your gates Praise.
19 The sun will no more be your light by day,
nor will the brightness of the moon shine on you,
for the LORD will be your everlasting light,
and your God will be your glory.
20 Your sun will never set again,
and your moon will wane no more;
the LORD will be your everlasting light,
and your days of sorrow will end. 21 Then will all your people be righteous
and they will possess the land forever.
They are the shoot I have planted,
the work of my hands,
for the display of my splendor.

Swiftly to God is different than swiftly to man. This is all in the process and much has happened since 1948 proving might Father Yahweh and his word the Bible is true for this last generation before Jesus ( Yeshua ) returns.
22 The least of you will become a thousand,
the smallest a mighty nation.
I am the LORD;
in its time I will do this swiftly."

 

[allandnull]

The top 5 Encyclopedias in English (Brittannica, American, World, etc) in addition to the Encyclopedia Judeaica say, "There is no such thing as a 'Jewish' race!"

The Ashkenzy or Askenazim Jews form 95% of woeld Jewery. They are Turks, Huns, Syrians, etc.; hence, children of Jephath, not Shem (so not Semites) from a country where Germany is today that was the largest country in europe in 700 AD. The nation adopted the Jewish religion in the 700's. Zionists are Ashkenazim.

The rest of Jews are Shephardim, which means "from Spain.' While they are supposed to be able to trace their ancestry back to Abraham, they neither mingle with nor explain themselves to other Jews. They do not accept the modern state of Israel because they hold the belief that it will take the coming of Messiah to establish the true nation Israel.

God never was a racist. He never made any promise to a bloodline. It has always beren a matter of faith. Abraham's fatherhood the Bible says is as Father of those who believe (Galations 3:7.) Even if there was a promise that made being born in Adam with a certain kind of flesh (contrary to Jesus saying "the flesh profits nothing") the supposed "race" of people are not there.

Palestine according to Webster's dictionary means "Philistine," so, if it was true, rather than just a name chosen by certain Moslems, it would make them children of Ham, Hamites and without right to the land they claim as Semites through Ishmael according to the Koran.

Suffice it to say for now, religion has indoctrinated a lot of people into "La La Land." Because of your racial dispensationalism you're one of them. You don't submit your faith to only those words the Holy Spirit chose to make His revelation known. The authority of the Bible to which so many give lip service, thanks to the Reformation of the 1500's, is implemented by the use of concordances to verify if something is written or not. The original languages should also be consulted, not just for usage, that is, how the words have been translated. These things are so much easier to do with even free software that's available.

We'll disregard the fulfillment of God's repeated promises to utterly destroy those who kept not His covenant to point out there is no prophecy about any return to the land after the return from Babylon. Such a thing, if so important, was somehow never mentioned even once by the New Testament writers. Of course, they believed Jesus who says, "...ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father." "...the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him." (John 4:21 and 23) Instead of changing all the people of the world by the gospel, bringing them to obey and impart the peace and love of God, you seem obsessed with fomenting racist hatreds for a race that isn't even there over a few inches of desert sand.

You began what you posted by saying the "promise" was for salvation. Actually, as the angels said at the birth of the Messiah, His coming meant "glad tiding of great joy to ALL people." About 750 years before Jesus, God commanded by Isaiah ALL the earth to look and be saved (Is 45:22) and that unto God ALL will bow & every tongue swear. (Is 45:23) Isaiah also taught God will destroy the veil that's cast over ALL (Is 25:7,) will swallow up death (ALL death) in victory (Is 25:8,) and that He will wipe away tears from ALL faces (Is 25:8.) Even earlier the Psalmist prophecies that ALL flesh will come to God (Ps 65:2-4) These are only a few of the promises brought further to fulfillment in the appearing of Jesus, sent to be the Savior of the world. (I Jn 4:14)

"For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith." (Romans 4:13)

"Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ." (Galatians 3:16) Not carnal decendants! Those joined by the Holy Spirit to the Messiah, these ar the heirs!

"For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise." (Galations 3:27-29

 

[Carey]

The top 5 Encyclopedias in English (Brittannica, American, World, etc) in addition to the Encyclopedia Judeaica say, "There is no such thing as a 'Jewish' race!"

The Ashkenzy or Askenazim Jews form 95% of woeld Jewery. They are Turks, Huns, Syrians, etc.; hence, children of Jephath, not Shem (so not Semites) from a country where Germany is today that was the largest country in europe in 700 AD. The nation adopted the Jewish religion in the 700's. Zionists are Ashkenazim.

The rest of Jews are Shephardim, which means "from Spain.' While they are supposed to be able to trace their ancestry back to Abraham, they neither mingle with nor explain themselves to other Jews. They do not accept the modern state of Israel because they hold the belief that it will take the coming of Messiah to establish the true nation Israel.

God never was a racist. He never made any promise to a bloodline. It has always beren a matter of faith. Abraham's fatherhood the Bible says is as Father of those who believe (Galations 3:7.) Even if there was a promise that made being born in Adam with a certain kind of flesh (contrary to Jesus saying "the flesh profits nothing") the supposed "race" of people are not there.

Palestine according to Webster's dictionary means "Philistine," so, if it was true, rather than just a name chosen by certain Moslems, it would make them children of Ham, Hamites and without right to the land they claim as Semites through Ishmael according to the Koran.

Suffice it to say for now, religion has indoctrinated a lot of people into "La La Land." Because of your racial dispensationalism you're one of them. You don't submit your faith to only those words the Holy Spirit chose to make His revelation known. The authority of the Bible to which so many give lip service, thanks to the Reformation of the 1500's, is implemented by the use of concordances to verify if something is written or not. The original languages should also be consulted, not just for usage, that is, how the words have been translated. These things are so much easier to do with even free software that's available.

We'll disregard the fulfillment of God's repeated promises to utterly destroy those who kept not His covenant to point out there is no prophecy about any return to the land after the return from Babylon. Such a thing, if so important, was somehow never mentioned even once by the New Testament writers. Of course, they believed Jesus who says, "...ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father." "...the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him." (John 4:21 and 23) Instead of changing all the people of the world by the gospel, bringing them to obey and impart the peace and love of God, you seem obsessed with fomenting racist hatreds for a race that isn't even there over a few inches of desert sand.

You began what you posted by saying the "promise" was for salvation. Actually, as the angels said at the birth of the Messiah, His coming meant "glad tiding of great joy to ALL people." About 750 years before Jesus, God commanded by Isaiah ALL the earth to look and be saved (Is 45:22) and that unto God ALL will bow & every tongue swear. (Is 45:23) Isaiah also taught God will destroy the veil that's cast over ALL (Is 25:7,) will swallow up death (ALL death) in victory (Is 25:8,) and that He will wipe away tears from ALL faces (Is 25:8.) Even earlier the Psalmist prophecies that ALL flesh will come to God (Ps 65:2-4) These are only a few of the promises brought further to fulfillment in the appearing of Jesus, sent to be the Savior of the world. (I Jn 4:14)

"For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith." (Romans 4:13)

"Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ." (Galatians 3:16) Not carnal decendants! Those joined by the Holy Spirit to the Messiah, these ar the heirs!

"For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise." (Galations 3:27-29

You are confusing the promise salvation with the promise of the land.
They are 2 seperate promises.

You have beend decieved a Docrine rather than taking the plain word of God for what it says.

Webster dictionary, the encyclopedia , and the % of people who call themselves Jews worldwide do not TRUMP god and the Bible.

The seperate promise of salvation is to all who will accept Yeshua as Messiah and that he has been resurrected and will return.

The seperate promise of the land NOT SALVATION was to a genetic bllodline who simply had to stick to the religion of Abraham and do away with Paganism and non circumcicsion to get their land back as promised in Isaiah 60.

This EVERLASTING PROMISE IS EVERLATING and cannot be made void because God cannot lie.

Genesis 17 : 6 I will make you very fruitful; I will make nations of you, and kings will come from you.
7 I will establish my covenant as an everlasting covenant between me and you and your descendants(bloodline) after you for the generations(bloodline) to come, to be your God and the God of your descendants after you. 8 The whole land of Canaan, where you are now an alien, I will give as an everlasting possession to you and your descendants(bloodline) after you; and I will be their God."

 

[Big Mouth Nana]

Originally Posted by youdahman

This is the Israeli airforce
8 "Who are these that fly along like clouds,
like doves to their nests.

This started in 1948 and is still in the process to this day.
9 Surely the islands look to me;
in the lead are the ships of Tarshish, [a]
bringing your sons from afar,
with their silver and gold,
to the honor of the LORD your God,
the Holy One of Israel,
for he has endowed you with splendor.

WRONGO!!!I disagree with your assessment that this is the Israeli airforce. If you read the next verse, it talks about bringing your sons from afar. It doesn't even make good sense to say the airforce are like doves to their nests, but it does with Jews returning from exile. This has been happening since 1948 with Jews returning to their homeland, and these are Jews in planes returning. I have been watching this for a long time because I am 1/4 Jewish and is an interest to me.

 

[Carey]

WRONGO!!!I disagree with your assessment that this is the Israeli airforce. If you read the next verse, it talks about bringing your sons from afar. It doesn't even make good sense to say the airforce are like doves to their nests, but it does with Jews returning from exile. This has been happening since 1948 with Jews returning to their homeland, and these are Jews in planes returning. I have been watching this for a long time because I am 1/4 Jewish and is an interest to me.

I would say the planes for bringing Jews home and the planes that protect the country wold both be part of what is referred to here.

The racist muslims force Israel to ever be upgrading the air force that keeps the state safe.

The new 22's that Bush allowed to be sold and on their way will keep it so against the arab racism.

 

[Big Mouth Nana]

I would say the planes for bringing Jews home and the planes that protect the country wold both be part of what is referred to here.

You never give an inch do you...even when you could be wrong...like in this case? One thing about discussing biblical views, no one is right all of the time. The Israeli air force are not Doves to their nests. It doesn't fit the following verse. You can't "shoe horn" scripture.

The racist muslims force Israel to ever be upgrading the air force that keeps the state safe.

Well if they have any sense, they would want to keep their air force up to date anyway like we do. I'll agree that Muslim crazies is a good reason also.

The new 22's that Bush allowed to be sold and on their way will keep it so against the arab racism.

If you are saying here that Israel will be able to protect themselves, yes, for awhile until all nations come against her and God has to intervene.

 

[allandnull]

FIRST:

This EVERLASTING PROMISE IS EVERLATING and cannot be made void because God cannot lie.

Now this is in everybody's KJV Bible. Is it Satanic blindness or just a refusal to read it? The following among many more examples should prove without argument that when the English Bible says "for ever" or "everlasting" and similar things it cannot mean "for ever":

Sodom's fiery judgment is "eternal" (Jude 7)—until—God "will restore the fortunes of Sodom" (Ez. 16:53-55);

Israel's "affliction is incurable" (Jer. 30:12)—until—the Lord "will restore health" and heal her wounds (Jer. 30:17);

The sin of Samaria "is incurable" (Mic. 1:9)—until—the Lord "will restore . . . the fortunes of Samaria." (Ez. 16:53);

Ammon is to become a "wasteland forever" and "rise no more" (Zeph. 2:9, Jer. 25:27)—until—the Lord will "restore the fortunes of the Ammonites" (Jer. 49:6);

An Ammonite or Moabite is forbidden to enter the Lord's congregation "forever" — until — the tenth generation (Deut. 23:3);

Habakkuk tells us of mountains that were "everlasting", that is—until—they "were shattered" (Hab. 3:6);

The fire for Israel's sin offering (of a ram without blemish) is never to be put out. It shall be "perpetual"—until—Christ, the Lamb of God, dies for our sins. We now have a better covenant established on better promises (Lev. 6:12-13, Heb. 8:6-13);

God's waves of wrath roll over Jonah "forever"—until—the Lord delivers him from "hell," bringing him up from the pit on the third day (Jonah 2:6,10; 1:17);

Egypt and Elam will "rise no more" (Jer. 25:27)—until—the Lord will "restore the fortunes of Egypt" (Ez. 29:14) and "restore the fortunes of Elam" (Jer. 49:39).

"Moab is destroyed" (Jer. 48:4,42)—until—the Lord "will restore the fortunes of Moab" (Jer. 48:47);

Israel's judgment lasts "forever"—until—the Spirit is poured out and God restores it (Isa. 32:13-15).

Ps. 78:69 says, "...the earth which he hath established for ever" as also does Ecc. 1:2, "...the earth which he hath established for ever."--until---"...the first heaven and the first earth were passed away." (Rev. 21:1)

Jeremiah (5:22) says the sea is "perpetual"---until---"...there was no more sea." (Rev. 21:1)

A bondslave could not possibly serve his master "forever" Ex. 21:6.

God did not dwell in Soloman's temple "forever" 1 Kg. 8:13.

Hebrew olam and olamim correspond to the Greek eon, eons, eonian. In no instance do they require to be translated with some idea of infinite future time. So concurs Canon Farrar and others. It is an age, an indefinite period of time, normally a long period of time marked of by vast cataclysms. These eons relate to the time aspect of the universe as the world relates to the constitutional aspect.


SECOND:

Genesis 17 : 6 I will make you very fruitful; I will make nations of you, and kings will come from you.
7 I will establish my covenant as an everlasting covenant between me and you and your descendants(bloodline) after you for the generations(bloodline) to come, to be your God and the God of your descendants after you. 8 The whole land of Canaan, where you are now an alien, I will give as an everlasting possession to you and your descendants(bloodline) after you; and I will be their God."

Whether you have changed the singular, not plural "seed" to "descendants(bloodline)," just inserted "(bloodline)," and/or used certain modern translations targeted for purchasing demographics, the above is not a true translation of the original! The fact remains (as indicated in another example above,) unless you adhere to what is written, regardless of how obsessed you are about the matter, your belief can only be consumed in the proving fire and not endure it.

Confine your expression of faith to the actual words The Holy Spirit chose to make His revelation known. Use concordances to verify if something is written or not. Examine the original language, specially in important matter. Don't accept just lists of how a word is used or translated, like Strong's. A basic law of language is a word must best fit all its occurences. It can't be in diametric opposition to itself, like a definite period of time, an "age" (of which there are at least 5, as well as before and after the ages) and an infinity as "for ever."


---JamesMRohde

 

[Carey]

FIRST:


Now this is in everybody's KJV Bible. Is it Satanic blindness or just a refusal to read it? The following among many more examples should prove without argument that when the English Bible says "for ever"or "everlasting" and similar things it cannot mean "for ever":

Sodom's fiery judgment is "eternal" (Jude 7)—until—God "will restore the fortunes of Sodom" (Ez. 16:53-55);

Israel's "affliction is incurable" (Jer. 30:12)—until—the Lord "will restore health" and heal her wounds (Jer. 30:17);

The sin of Samaria "is incurable" (Mic. 1:9)—until—the Lord "will restore . . . the fortunes of Samaria." (Ez. 16:53);

Ammon is to become a "wasteland forever" and "rise no more" (Zeph. 2:9, Jer. 25:27)—until—the Lord will "restore the fortunes of the Ammonites" (Jer. 49:6);

An Ammonite or Moabite is forbidden to enter the Lord's congregation "forever"—
until—the tenth generation (Deut. 23:3);

Habakkuk tells us of mountains that were "everlasting", that is—until—they "were shattered" (Hab. 3:6);

The fire for Israel's sin offering (of a ram without blemish) is never to be put out. It shall be "perpetual"—until—Christ, the Lamb of God, dies for our sins. We now have a better covenant established on better promises (Lev. 6:12-13, Heb. 8:6-13);

God's waves of wrath roll over Jonah "forever"—until—the Lord delivers him from "hell," bringing him up from the pit on the third day (Jonah 2:6,10; 1:17);

Egypt and Elam will "rise no more" (Jer. 25:27)—until—the Lord will "restore the fortunes of Egypt" (Ez. 29:14) and "restore the fortunes of Elam" (Jer. 49:39).

"Moab is destroyed" (Jer. 48:4,42)—until—the Lord "will restore the fortunes of Moab" (Jer. 48:47);

Israel's judgment lasts "forever"—until—the Spirit is poured out and God restores it (Isa. 32:13-15).

Ps. 78:69 says, "...the earth which he hath established for ever" as also does Ecc. 1:2, "...the earth which he hath established for ever."--until---"...the first heaven and the first earth were passed away." (Rev. 21:1)

Jeremiah (5:22) says the sea is "perpetual"---until---"...there was no more sea." (Rev. 21:1)

A bondslave could not possibly serve his master "forever" Ex. 21:6.

God did not dwell in Soloman's temple "forever" 1 Kg. 8:13.

Hebrew olam and olamim correspond to the Greek eon, eons, eonian. In no instance do they require to be translated with some idea of infinite future time. So concurs Canon Farrar and others. It is an age, an indefinite period of time, normally a long period of time marked of by vast cataclysms. These eons relate to the time aspect of the universe as the world relates to the constitutinal aspect.


SECOND:

Whether you have changed the singular, not plural "seed" to "descendants(bloodline)," just inserted "(bloodline)," and/or used certain modern translations targeted for purchasing demographics, the fact remains (as indicated in another example above,) unless you adhere to what is written, regardless of how obsessed you are about the matter, your belief can only be consumed in the proving fire and not endure it.

Confine your expression of faith to the actual words The Holy Spirit chose to make His revelation known. Use concordances to verify if something is written or not. Examine the original language, specially in important matter. Don't accept just lists of how a word is used or translated, like Strong's. A basic law of language is a word must best fit all its occurences. It can't be in diametric opposition to itself, like a definite period of time, an "age" (of which there are at least 5, as well as before and after the ages) and an infinity as "for ever."


---JamesMRohde

The Jeremiah 30 you took out of context says the same thing.

Yes forever is until God wants to change it. In everyone of your twisted satanic attempts to make the Bible appear as though it contradicts itself its says until GOD YAHWE THE FATHER ABBA chooses to change it.

God the father chose to have the land of Canaan returned to its rightful owners in 1948 this however does not garauntee them salvation on his promise kept about the land. You are blinded by satanic false doctrine.

Here rea Jeremiah 30 and see where it says the same as Isaiah 60 it is so plain to see as long as you forget the false doctrines of men who twist the Bible.

Jeremiah 30 12 "This is what the LORD says: ( remember God was angry because of paganism and non circumcision )
" 'Your wound is incurable,
your injury beyond healing.

13 There is no one to plead your cause,
no remedy for your sore,
no healing for you.
14 All your allies have forgotten you;
they care nothing for you.
I have struck you as an enemy would
and punished you as would the cruel,
because your guilt is so great
and your sins so many.
15 Why do you cry out over your wound,
your pain that has no cure?
Because of your great guilt and many sins
I have done these things to you.

This has laready happened to the romans Hitler saddam and Palestine and their are more on Gods hit list
16 " 'But all who devour you will be devoured;
all your enemies will go into exile.
Those who plunder you will be plundered;
all who make spoil of you I will despoil.

This started in 1948 and is ongoing today 17 But I will restore you to health
and heal your wounds,'
declares the LORD,
'because you are called an outcast,
Zion for whom no one cares.' ( and most of the countries of the world do not care for ZION Israel ) The word zion angers people who have been decieved by Satan

This started in 1948 and is ongoing today

18 "This is what the LORD says:
" 'I will restore the fortunes of Jacob's tents
and have compassion on his dwellings;
the city will be rebuilt on her ruins,
and the palace will stand in its proper place.

This started in 1948 and is ongoing today
19 From them will come songs of thanksgiving
and the sound of rejoicing.
I will add to their numbers,
and they will not be decreased;
I will bring them honor,
and they will not be disdained.( and they are not disdained by true Christians today but the rest of the world will have to be put under Christs foot before their disdain will be removed.)
20 Their children will be as in days of old,
and their community will be established before me;
I will punish all who oppress them. ( Like palestine , Rome , Hitlers Germany, Saddams Iraq, and soon Armadinijads Iran ) 21 Their leader will be one of their own; ( we know eventually this will be Jesus who is one of their own. But Their leaders since 1948 have been one of their own. )


Isaiah 60

The Glory of Zion

This started when Jesus was born
1 "Arise, shine, for your light has come,
and the glory of the LORD rises upon you.


2 See, darkness covers the earth
and thick darkness is over the peoples,
but the LORD rises upon you
and his glory appears over you.

This will happen after Jesus returns
3 Nations will come to your light,
and kings to the brightness of your dawn.

This started in 1948 AND IS STILL IN THE PROCESS TODAY
4 "Lift up your eyes and look about you:
All assemble and come to you;
your sons come from afar,
and your daughters are carried on the arm.
5 Then you will look and be radiant,
your heart will throb and swell with joy;
the wealth on the seas will be brought to you,
to you the riches of the nations will come.

This has started but all from Sheba will not prause the Lord until he returns and conquers 6 Herds of camels will cover your land,
young camels of Midian and Ephah.
And all from Sheba will come,
bearing gold and incense
and proclaiming the praise of the LORD.

This is future tense for us today because the Temple has not yet been rebuilt but Israel already has the Blueprints and plans to rebuild it.

7 All Kedar's flocks will be gathered to you,
the rams of Nebaioth will serve you;
they will be accepted as offerings on my altar,
and I will adorn my glorious temple.

This is the Israeli airforce
8 "Who are these that fly along like clouds,
like doves to their nests?

This started in 1948 and is still in the process to this day.
9 Surely the islands look to me;
in the lead are the ships of Tarshish, [a]
bringing your sons from afar,
with their silver and gold,
to the honor of the LORD your God,
the Holy One of Israel,
for he has endowed you with splendor.

This started in 1948 and is still in the process today.He was angry because of Pagn worship and non circumcision. They stopped pagan worship and started circumcsing again which was the only prerequisit for them having their land of Canaan because of ABRahame faith not theirs.
10 "Foreigners will rebuild your walls,
and their kings will serve you.
Though in anger I struck you,
in favor I will show you compassion.

This has not YET happened but is going to in the near future. 11 Your gates will always stand open,
they will never be shut, day or night,
so that men may bring you the wealth of the nations—
their kings led in triumphal procession.


Some nations like PALESTINE and HITLERS REGIME and SADDAMS REGIME
have already experienced this and more will in our immediate future.
12 For the nation or kingdom that will not serve you will perish;
it will be utterly ruined.

This will probably be the next prophecy fulfilled in your lifetime you will see with your own eyes. Watch and behold the power of Yahweh the Father.
13 "The glory of Lebanon will come to you,
the pine, the fir and the cypress together,
to adorn the place of my sanctuary;
and I will glorify the place of my feet.

This is in the near future as well
14 The sons of your oppressors will come bowing before you;
all who despise you will bow down at your feet
and will call you the City of the LORD,
Zion of the Holy One of Israel.

This is also future rense after Jesus returns.
15 "Although you have been forsaken and hated,
with no one traveling through,
I will make you the everlasting pride
and the joy of all generations.

This started happening in 1948 and is still going on today.
16 You will drink the milk of nations
and be nursed at royal breasts.
Then you will know that I, the LORD, am your Savior,
your Redeemer, the Mighty One of Jacob.

This started happening in 1948 but is not yet totally fulfilled.
17 Instead of bronze I will bring you gold,
and silver in place of iron.
Instead of wood I will bring you bronze,
and iron in place of stones.
I will make peace your governor
and righteousness your ruler.
18 No longer will violence be heard in your land,
nor ruin or destruction within your borders,
but you will call your walls Salvation
and your gates Praise.
19 The sun will no more be your light by day,
nor will the brightness of the moon shine on you,
for the LORD will be your everlasting light,
and your God will be your glory.
20 Your sun will never set again,
and your moon will wane no more;
the LORD will be your everlasting light,
and your days of sorrow will end. 21 Then will all your people be righteous
and they will possess the land forever.
They are the shoot I have planted,
the work of my hands,
for the display of my splendor.

Swiftly to God is different than swiftly to man. This is all in the process and much has happened since 1948 proving might Father Yahweh and his word the Bible is true for this last generation before Jesus ( Yeshua ) returns.
22 The least of you will become a thousand,
the smallest a mighty nation.
I am the LORD;
in its time I will do this swiftly."

 

[Big Mouth Nana]

Merciful Jesus!!! Why do people think that they have to post half of the bible to get their point across ? It reminds me of where Jesus talked about the heathen praying thinking that they would be heard for their much speaking lol....Matt 6:7....not that you are a heathen . If some people are like me and they come across "an Encyclopedia" of a post, they skim and don't get the full impact, or don't read it at all. Usually one or two paragraphs can make a point Carey lol.

 

[allandnull]

The Jeremiah 30 you took out of context says the same thing.

Yes forever is until God wants to change it. In everyone of your twisted satanic attempts to make the Bible appear as though it contradicts itself its says until GOD YAHWE THE FATHER ABBA chooses to change it.

After the above you go on in your monologue. This stuff from you doesn't reassure me that we can have much of a discussion or that I'm talking to someone with understanding. The point I made was that the English translation(s) of Holy Scripture are mistaken because they're not in accordance with the original languages that do not contradict.

"A fool does not find joy in understanding but only in expressing his own opinion" (Prov 18:2)


And Big Mouth Nana I agree. My problem is after posting so many examples Carey doesn't get it anyway. Maybe I have to wait for another thread to come along and not waste my time here. And what's with that names of God log jam? It makes me feel I'm trying to talk to Dr Bonner of the Peppermint Oil soap fame.

 

[Big Mouth Nana]

And Big Mouth Nana I agree. My problem is after posting so many examples Carey doesn't get it anyway. Maybe I have to wait for another thread to come along and not waste my time here. And what's with that names of God log jam? It makes me feel I'm trying to talk to Dr Bonner of the Peppermint Oil soap fame.

He has an answer for everything..even if it's wrong. I think he believes that if he posts half the bible, some truth will seep through as long as it's close to the topic . My thinking is, we can agree to disagree, but plzzzzz admit if you are proven wrong,. Carey won't.

 

[Carey]

Their are no fake Jews . Judaism is a religion that has all races just like Christianity and evry other religion Except Obamas Church.

The den of serpents truly is the decendents of Abraham that have and rightfully rule Israel today though.

When Jesus comes back he will crush their opposition. But will have no more mercy on them on Judgement day than anyone else that calls on him Lord Lord and did not do the will of his Father Yahweh. He will tell the Jews,Muslims, Buddhists Atheist and Christians who did not have their hearts in the right place this.

Matthew 7 : 21"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

We should not buy into false doctrines that twist the obvious facts in Jeremiah 30 and Isaiah 60 about the Israel of today. Doing this will turn us into false teachers.

Because their Governemnet is not perfect should we mislead people in the facts that Prophecy was fullfilled in 1948 and 1967?? This steals away from the miraculous events that in recently history validate the Bible !!!

What Government is perfect?? Who are we to judge??

Get your hearts right and be forgiven. Just as anyone who is in any religion or government can do.And you won't be blind to prophecy fulfillment.

Romans 2 : 14(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, 15since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.) 16This will take place on the day when God will judge men's secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

Nehemiah 2 : 19 But when Sanballat the Horonite, Tobiah the Ammonite official and Geshem the Arab heard about it, they mocked and ridiculed us. "What is this you are doing?" they asked. "Are you rebelling against the king?"
20 I answered them by saying, "The God of heaven will give us success. We his servants will start rebuilding, but as for you, you have no share in Jerusalem or any claim or historic right to it."

 

[allandnull]

There's a book you must read if you want to be in the light on this topic. To deal with knowledge you must examine evidence. I do not promote this book as true. I personally do not know. Like many other things in my head, I can only wait with the understanding I have until there is sufficient evidence to be more decisive about the issue. You will never have true understanding if you only examine the opinion of those who say what you've heard said the way you've heard it said before. The book is The Struggle for the Birthright by Dr Stephen E. Jones and has been available to read free at www.gods-kingdom.org or at www.gods-kingdom-ministries.org

More important is his book The Laws of the Second Coming which, if you read the table of contents, you'll recognize immediately Jones is on Scriptural ground unlike most anyone else of whom at least I'm aware.

 

[Carey]

Read my posts in this thread they will be far more helpful than those 2 books you refer to.

http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=47486803&posted=1#post47486803

 

[allandnull]

Read my posts in this thread they will be far more helpful than those 2 books you refer to.

"He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him." (Prv 18:13)

"A fool does not find joy in understanding but only in expressing his own opinion" (Prov 18:2)

It is becoming evident what you are.

 

[Carey]

"He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him." (Prv 18:13)

"A fool does not find joy in understanding but only in expressing his own opinion" (Prov 18:2)

It is becoming evident what you are.

Thank you.

I always use scripture rather than peoples opinions in books.

It is noce seeing scripture in your post as well.

 

[allandnull]

Some say, "We don't read men's opinions. We just go directly to the Bible. We believe in the pure word of God." But they forget the man of their own heart. Whatever we think to hear from God, it is our own self that hears. We filter the Word through our own lenses. "First, you must understand this: No prophecy in Scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation." (2 Pet 1:20) God wants there to be two or more in His name. This is what is formed from His call, what is (eclessia) "called out" to Him. This is what He is uniting with, what is His bride. Too few meet without human headship, every member functioning, in a "round-table" structure. The idea that the Church should be what functions, not a few paid professionals on stage, escapes them. But His coming is for a bride.

What you do to the least of His brothers you do to Him. "If you don't love (hear) your brother you have seen, how can you love (hear) God that you have not seen?" To give no honor to the true God speaking in others is to dishonor God. When gathered concerning the relation of the law of Moses to the gospel, there were three days of discussion that prepared a perceptive readiness for the word of God when it came that it be appreciated and kept. (Acts 15) You don't just drop a loose jewel in your pocket. You create a setting to keep and display it. Jesus didn't come into the world just anywhere. There was a nation called Israel cultivated according to Scripture to be able to perceive the wonder, to display and retain the glory, like a finding for a jewel.

It is Adam that is individual souls in separate dirt pods. The vessel Christ has another form, "Many, are one body: so also is Christ. For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles...and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. (1 Cor 12:12-13) Many membered body, covered and filled with the same Spirit making one is the form of this other vessel according to the potter's good pleasure. And, among other drastic differences, "As in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made to live." Since Jesus was the last Adam, ending Adam and His world, no one who is of the one true and living God is going to make it alone. There is an inter-relatedness in function that is this new man. The first two in His name is one's self and God. That God is love, He places the members into the body as it pleases Him.

We are not able to not need others!!! "...and if all were one member, where is the body? And now, indeed, are many members, and one body; and an eye is not able to say to the hand, `I have no need of thee;' nor again the head to the feet, `I have no need of you.'" (1 Cor 12:19-21) The traditions of Institutional Christianity have made this word of God to no effect. We live in an era when men who don't study Scripture build their own kingdoms over audiences steeped in tradition. They know not that the cloud of glory has lifted and the camp is moving on. The lamb is worthy of a bride. It doesn't matter how gifted or knowledgable the man on stage is, he's not the body of Christ, and Jesus wants His body back!

On the way to the fulness there are also functions across the centuries. If God teaches me He teaches others. I am made so I cannot be without them in this new man, the vessel of God's choosing. To get, "...unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ" (Eph 4:13) God gave teaching shepherds. (Eph 4:11) None will get there in another way. The elders are elders because they continuously recognize they have no authority of their own. They, "...cast their crowns before the throne, saying, 'Thou art worthy, O Lord." (Rev 4:11-12)


---JamesMRohde

 

[Carey]

Some say, "We don't read men's opinions. We just go directly to the Bible. We believe in the pure word of God." But they forget the man of their own heart. Whatever we think to hear from God, it is our own self that hears. We filter the Word through our own lenses. "First, you must understand this: No prophecy in Scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation." (2 Pet 1:20) God wants there to be two or more in His name. This is what is formed from His call, what is (eclessia) "called out" to Him. This is what He is uniting with, what is His bride. Too few meet without human headship, every member functioning, in a "round-table" structure. The idea that the Church should be what functions, not a few paid professionals on stage, escapes them. But His coming is for a bride.

What you do to the least of His brothers you do to Him. "If you don't love (hear) your brother you have seen, how can you love (hear) God that you have not seen?" To give no honor to the true God speaking in others is to dishonor God. When gathered concerning the relation of the law of Moses to the gospel, there were three days of discussion that prepared a perceptive readiness for the word of God when it came that it be appreciated and kept. (Acts 15) You don't just drop a loose jewel in your pocket. You create a setting to keep and display it. Jesus didn't come into the world just anywhere. There was a nation called Israel cultivated according to Scripture to be able to perceive the wonder, to display and retain the glory, like a finding for a jewel.

It is Adam that is individual souls in separate dirt pods. The vessel Christ has another form, "Many, are one body: so also is Christ. For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles...and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. (1 Cor 12:12-13) Many membered body, covered and filled with the same Spirit making one is the form of this other vessel according to the potter's good pleasure. And, among other drastic differences, "As in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made to live." Since Jesus was the last Adam, ending Adam and His world, no one who is of the one true and living God is going to make it alone. There is an inter-relatedness in function that is this new man. The first two in His name is one's self and God. That God is love, He places the members into the body as it pleases Him.

We are not able to not need others!!! "...and if all were one member, where is the body? And now, indeed, are many members, and one body; and an eye is not able to say to the hand, `I have no need of thee;' nor again the head to the feet, `I have no need of you.'" (1 Cor 12:19-21) The traditions of Institutional Christianity have made this word of God to no effect. We live in an era when men who don't study Scripture build their own kingdoms over audiences steeped in tradition. They know not that the cloud of glory has lifted and the camp is moving on. The lamb is worthy of a bride. It doesn't matter how gifted or knowledgable the man on stage is, he's not the body of Christ, and Jesus wants His body back!

On the way to the fulness there are also functions across the centuries. If God teaches me He teaches others. I am made so I cannot be without them in this new man, the vessel of God's choosing. To get, "...unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ" (Eph 4:13) God gave teaching shepherds. (Eph 4:11) None will get there in another way. The elders are elders because they continuously recognize they have no authority of their own. They, "...cast their crowns before the throne, saying, 'Thou art worthy, O Lord." (Rev 4:11-12)


---JamesMRohde

My brother inChrist I believe your emphatic desire to do what is Gods will for you now.

Thank you for such a well thought out post.

Please give me your opinion of this.

http://cjohnson.pfcinternational.com/

 

[NumberOneSon]

I always use scripture rather than peoples opinions in books.

ROTFL...now that's what I call comedy.

In Christ,

Acts6:5

 

[Carey]

ROTFL...now that's what I call comedy.

In Christ,

Acts6:5

Jeremiah 17 : 15 They keep saying to me,
"Where is the word of the LORD ?
Let it now be fulfilled!"

16 I have not run away from being your shepherd;
you know I have not desired the day of despair.
What passes my lips is open before you.
17 Do not be a terror to me;
you are my refuge in the day of disaster. 18 Let my persecutors be put to shame,
but keep me from shame;
let them be terrified,
but keep me from terror.
Bring on them the day of disaster;
destroy them with double destruction.