Thought Experiment

[Wedjat]

I think this is an interesting question, mostly because you get a lot of very diverse answers and I'm interested to know what you guys think.

Assume for a moment that God does not exist.
What would the universe look like if he did? (ie. had come about by supernatural means instead of natural, how would it differ from this one which we are assuming for the moment is purely natural)

Inversely assume now that God does exist.
What would the universe look like if he didn't? ie. had come about by natural means as opposed to supernatural, how would a purely natural universe differ from this one which we are now assuming was created by God?
Note: for the sake of the discussion, try to stay away from "non-existent", get creative. If you really can't come up with anything else though, that's fine.

For the purposes of this thread I'd like you to try and abstain from reading each others answers, at least until you supply your own. Afterwords we can discuss.

I look forward to reading your answers.

 

[ebia]

I think this is an interesting question, mostly because you get a lot of very diverse answers and I'm interested to know what you guys think.

Assume for a moment that God does not exist.
What would the universe look like if he did? (ie. had come about by supernatural means instead of natural, how would it differ from this one which we are assuming for the moment is purely natural)

I find that unanswerable on two main counts:

a) It's like someone asking me right now, about 2pm, "assumming that it is currently night, what would daytime look different?". This is what I would expect it to look like in the day.

b) natural and supernatural are not opposed - or rather, they are a false dichotomy that doesn't fit the biblical worldview. The outpouring of God's creative word and natural processes are one and the same thing, not alternatives. The idea of natural v's supernatural is an enlightenment invention designed to push talk of god out of the picture, and one can't force other ways of looking at the world into that framework.

 

[Van]

Hi Wedjat, thanks for the interesting question!

Your opening premise, if God exists, then the Universe would have come about by supernatural means, rather than natural means, seems debatable. Why could not the universe come about by a mix of supernatural and natural means if God exists. To restrict God to only supernatural interaction with His creation seems far-fetched.

The second premise, what if God does not exist, what would the Universe look like, is a great premise. How would the Universe come about if it started with a singularity that had eternally existed. Some supernatural force, lets call it the "non-god" force interacted with the singularty and caused the Big bang. Then in a fraction of a second, for the Big Bang created time, the "non-god" force caused our existing four fundamental forces (gravity, strong and weak nuclear, and electromagnetic forces) to emerge. Once this ball got rolling the Universe might look very much like our Universe. But life might not exist because it seems very difficult for life to emerge without supernatural (or as yet not understood natural) forces to be engaged. But setting that aside, could life evolve to the point when anatomically modern men capable of cave paintings and language might emerge without yet another nudge from the supernatural? Assuming the non-god force nudged the evolution of man, then the non-god universe would look very much like the God made universe.

For example, if God exists and He has in fact revealed Himself at least partially in what I call God's Word, then He initiated creation by supernatural means (logically because no "nature" referring to creation existed. But the nature He created is dynamic and changes over time based on its nature, which God either allows to occur or supernaturally alters the outcome on occasion but certainly not with any great frequency. So what we would see is what we see, a Universe operating naturally but with hints of supernatural modification, such as the cause of the initial big bang, and the cause of life, and the rise of a creature that considers the existence of God.

 

[Wedjat]

Thank you Van, that is an interesting answer.

 

[Bro_Sam]

I think this is an interesting question, mostly because you get a lot of very diverse answers and I'm interested to know what you guys think.

Assume for a moment that God does not exist.
What would the universe look like if he did? (ie. had come about by supernatural means instead of natural, how would it differ from this one which we are assuming for the moment is purely natural)

What does nothing look like?

 

[Chesterton]

I think this is an interesting question, mostly because you get a lot of very diverse answers and I'm interested to know what you guys think.

Assume for a moment that God does not exist.
What would the universe look like if he did?

The universe would contain intelligent beings asking what the universe would look like if God does not exist.

Inversely assume now that God does exist.
What would the universe look like if he didn't?

It would not contain intelligent beings asking anything. I'm not saying "non-existence"; I'm just saying "non-intelligence", because intellgence requires law and order, and law requires a Law-maker, and order requires an Orderer.

 

[Wedjat]

What does nothing look like?

and for the second one? Also am I to understand that you are saying that if God did not exist, the scenario in which he does contains nothing?

 

[Wedjat]

The universe would contain intelligent beings asking what the universe would look like if God does not exist.

But if we are assuming for the purposes of argument for this specific question that God does not exist in this universe, you are saying that if he did, we would have people asking this very question. Are you saying that it would not be different at all?


By the way, I'm not trying to be prying, I'm finding some of these answers very enlightening.

 

[aiki]

I think this is an interesting question, mostly because you get a lot of very diverse answers and I'm interested to know what you guys think.

Assume for a moment that God does not exist.
What would the universe look like if he did? (ie. had come about by supernatural means instead of natural, how would it differ from this one which we are assuming for the moment is purely natural)

Inversely assume now that God does exist.
What would the universe look like if he didn't? ie. had come about by natural means as opposed to supernatural, how would a purely natural universe differ from this one which we are now assuming was created by God?
Note: for the sake of the discussion, try to stay away from "non-existent", get creative. If you really can't come up with anything else though, that's fine.

If God did not exist, there could be no Universe. Go back as far as you want, but at some point one has to posit a First Cause for all that exists. And this First Cause itself must necessarily be uncaused, personal, transcendent and unchanging: God. Mere natural processes cannot produce time, space, matter and energy.

Peace.

 

[Chesterton]

But if we are assuming for the purposes of argument for this specific question that God does not exist in this universe, you are saying that if he did, we would have people asking this very question. Are you saying that it would not be different at all?

Sorry, I think I got confused. If you're asking us to assume God doesn't exist, you're asking us to assume too much. It would seem to me like showing me the planets orbiting the sun, and saying "assume gravity doesn't exist". Well obviously, whatever you name it, or however you describe it, something is causing the planets to orbit the sun. So assuming a universe without God is like assuming an un-caused effect. It's not logically possible, unless you posit an un-caused thing, and that un-caused thing is what we call "God".

 

[Hentenza]

I know what my steak looks like and taste like because I designed it to look like and taste like I like. A steak can still be cooked by merely natural causes but it will either go bad before it cooks or char because no one was there to turn off the fire.