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Thought about something Specific
- Thread starter ProScribe
- Start date
Given that many people's understanding of evolution leaves much to be desired, I don't know about that.
I expect the spirit person's evolution is nurtured by the Holy Spirit.
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Isaiah ch. 11.2 And the Spirit of Jehovah shall rest on Him; He will have the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and power, the spirit of knowledge and the fear of Jehovah. . .
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I thought most people were convinced and informed about their views concerning human evolution.
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Proscribe quoted Isaiah:
Yes, perhaps. Our God is a glorious God, and may indeed have greater plans for our spirits, or those of our great-grandchildren. I think that in the most basic understanding of evolution - that God continues to craft things over time, making all things new, that you could indeed be right.
At least most people do get that basic concept of evolution right.
Papias
Yes, perhaps. Our God is a glorious God, and may indeed have greater plans for our spirits, or those of our great-grandchildren. I think that in the most basic understanding of evolution - that God continues to craft things over time, making all things new, that you could indeed be right.
At least most people do get that basic concept of evolution right.
Papias
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Well, then, the "Darwinian materialist reduction of life" is not part of the theory of evolution and should be rejected by evolutionary Christians--with an apology to Darwin who did not personally support materialism.
It is materialists who support the reduction of life to basic physics and chemistry; if they wrest the theory of evolution in that direction, they are mis-interpreting its implications.
I certainly see no lack of decency in considering God/spirit and evolution together.
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Greg1234
In the beginning was El
Creationist: Biology has to do with natural things which are alive,and life in natural things is spirit and power which comes from God. It is not the same kind of phenomenon as the force of gravity,which is a purely natural,passive and unintelligent force caused by the existence of the earth in empty space. ......
But life in natural things is itself supernatural. It is power and intelligence over nature.
Christian Darwinist: But that's clearly not the case, since life can be described by chemistry and physics, even to the point that scientists can take a written DNA code in a computer, synthesize the DNA in the lab, put it in a cellular structure, to make living bacteria. There is no evidence in that of anything "supernatural".
On this very forum. By the way, I already know what Darwinism says, and all the topics it attempts to explain. Save your above speech for someone new to the discussion, or the kids in school.
As previously given, you don't need to consciously reject anything. The belief in Darwinism is an automatic rejection of the spiritual basis of life where only then can you have microbes, a plane of their own, jumping to men.
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What is a "Christian Darwinist"? Given your definition of "Darwinism", I doubt there can be any such thing.
If you mean "theistic evolutionist" aka "evolutionary creationist" none that I know of would say "there is no evidence in that" of the work of God. They might well agree that there is no evidence of God using methods undecipherable to science to create life. Is that what you mean by "supernatural"?
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[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']The spirit of mankind is our self-awareness.[/FONT]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']You either have it or you dont.[/FONT]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']If you have it then you know you have it.[/FONT]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']If you say that you do not have it you lie.[/FONT]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']If you dont have it then you wont have the ability to realize you dont have it or say that you don't have it.[/FONT]
Duane
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']You either have it or you dont.[/FONT]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']If you have it then you know you have it.[/FONT]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']If you say that you do not have it you lie.[/FONT]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']If you dont have it then you wont have the ability to realize you dont have it or say that you don't have it.[/FONT]
Duane
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That still leaves open the question of whether "no evidence of the supernatural" is equivalent to "no evidence of God". This seems to be one of the dividing lines between those who dispute science and those who do not.
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lucaspa
Legend
If this is what is meant by "the spirit of man", then, no, it can't evolve. That spirit is a gift to each individual human by God.
Evolution happens to populations, not individuals. Also, evolution happens when you have traits that are heritable. Since this spirit is not part of an individual such that parent can pass it to offspring, then, no, it can't evolve.
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lucaspa
Legend
No, Greg, it doesn't contradict Darwinism. Darwinism is concerned about the physical part of humans and what is a result of the physical -- such as our intelligence.
Darwin had no trouble with a concept of "soul" or "spirit" and evolution:
"He who believes in the advancement of man from some low organised form, will naturally ask how does this bear on the belief in the immortality of the soul. The barbarous races of man, as Sir J. Lubbock has shewn, possess no clear belief of this kind; but arguments derived from the primeval beliefs of savages are, as we have just seen, of little or no avail. Few persons feel any anxiety from the impossibility of determining at what precise period in the development of the individual, from the first trace of a minute germinal vesicle, man becomes an immortal being; and there is no greater cause for anxiety because the period cannot possibly be determined in the gradually ascending organic scale." Literature.org - The Online Literature Library The Descent of Man
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lucaspa
Legend
So for the creationist there must be something else involved than chemistry for something to be alive?
Doesn't gravity also come from God? Why do you leave God out of gravity? Christians don't:
"A Law of Nature then is the rule and Law, according to which God resolved that certain Motions should always, that is, in all Cases be performed. Every Law does immediately depend upon the Will of God." Gravesande, Mathematical Elements of Natural Philosophy, I, 2-3, 1726, quoted in CC Gillespie, Genesis and Geology, 1959.
Gravesende referred specifically to gravity as one of these laws.
It appears to me that you are using god-of-the-gaps theology. Where there is no "gap", God is absent. So you think God is absent from gravity.
What is a "Christian Darwinist"?
Let's consider this: your parents had sex, your mother conceived, and you developed and were born. Where in that sequence is "supernatural"?
Looking at the workings of an individual bacteria, where is the "supernatural".
Greg, in everyday life, even creationists don't invoke the supernatural. They only invoke direct action by God to get the first life. Once life exists, they don't invoke direct action by God to stay alive. They don't even invoke direct action by God to get a new living being. They are perfectly happy to have "passive and unintelligent" processes either cause the division of one bacterium into 2 or fuse a sperm and egg to start a new human embryo.
Our "spritual basis of life" doesn't refer to being alive, but on how we live. That is, on how and what we do, think, feel, etc. When Jesus said "born again of the spirit" he didn't mean getting a new material body, did he? No, he meant a new outlook and approach to behavior, thoughts, etc.
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lucaspa
Legend
The book of Isaiah wasn't good enough for you? Then why did you post from Isaiah?
My conclusions derived from the verses in Isaiah and what we know from God's Creation that evolution is.
BTW, according to those who believethe Bible is "God's Word", it is not peer-reviewed. How could it be? What peer does God have?
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The book of Isaiah wasn't good enough for you? Then why did you post from Isaiah?
My conclusions derived from the verses in Isaiah and what we know from God's Creation that evolution is.
BTW, according to those who believethe Bible is "God's Word", it is not peer-reviewed. How could it be? What peer does God have?
Sure lucaspa from New York. I think there is a history of debate among scholars about the Christian Bible though.
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lucaspa
Legend
Sure what? You are being cryptic, which is not helping the discussion. My argument was that the "spirit" referred to in the verses in Isaiah could not evolve. Do you agree or disagree? And why or why not?
How so? Weren't you referring to the Bible when you said "Peer Review journal used by the Scientist". Isn't "the Scientist" = God?
Maybe not. Because the Bible isn't "used by" God. Instead, it is inspired by God to communicate with humans. God doesn't use the Bible as a scientific journal. So, it would help if you would be less cryptic and more open. Were you referring to the Bible when you said "Peer Review journal"?
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