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Is all "wisdom" from YHWH? See Jam 3:15I don't recall Jesus calling the Pharisees 'beloved brother' and reminding others of the 'wisdom given to' them. It was something more like 'vipers' and 'children of hell' and 'don't eat that yeast'.
So either Peter is showing more lenience to Pharisees than Jesus did (making him suspect as well) or Peter considered Paul to be 'in the fold', and worth listening to (albeit with discretion).
No they do not. Otherwise when Peter was in Ephesus and the church, the one of the seven that put alleged false teachers or apostles on trial, found him to be a liar all of Asia then would not have turned their back on Paul.They do show Peter endorsed Paul and his teaching.
Peter was warning his readers to not fall into lawlessness after reading Paul & the Scriptures.
I'm still looking at verse 15, in which Peter calls Paul 'our beloved brother'.
YoungLT)
2Pe 3:
15
and the long-suffering of our Lord count ye salvation, according as also our beloved brother Paul -- according to the wisdom given to him -- did write to you,
16
as also in all the epistles, speaking in them concerning these things, among which things are certain hard to be understood, which the untaught and unstable do wrest, as also the other Writings, unto their own destruction.
I've been reading Questioning Paul for some time now, and I agree with the author's conclusions thus far. I understand many Christians quote 2 Peter 3:15-17 in support of Paul; I'll quote the author's expanded translation of these verses to you for consideration:
Contrary to how most Christians use these verses (based on faulty or muddled translations hiding the truth), he is stating that in actuality:
May Messiah commend us as He commended the assembly at Ephesus:
Messiah's letters in Revelation 2-3 was for His seven churches of Asia which were true to Him. Remarkably, it is also interesting to note that Ephesus is in the ancient Roman province of Asia, of which Paul wrote, in his own words:
Whatever is the source of that righteousness doesn't really matter. All He wants us to do is to focus on walking in righteousness.
Amein.
"For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous." 1Jo 5:3
"Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city." Rev 22:14
Can someone be a brother yet still be false? See Deu 19:18
Can someone be loved while yet an enemy? See Mt 5:44
No they do not. Otherwise when Peter was in Ephesus and the church, the one of the seven that put alleged false teachers or apostles on trial, found him to be a liar all of Asia then would not have turned their back on Paul.
But they did.
If Peter had endorsed Paul he would have called him a true apostle. He did not. No one ever acknowledged Paul to be an Apostle, the 13th apostle, save for Luke, Paul's employee and but twice in scripture. And Paul himself who repeatedly referred to himself as such.
Netzarim [and others like him] is just confused:
He also started this thread on that passage sometime back:
http://www.christianforums.com/t7599812-54/
False Apostle Paul & 2 Peter 3:15-17
.
Probably best to ask the RCs that, since he is considered their first PopeIs all "wisdom" from YHWH? See Jam 3:15
... it all boils down to this one question then: Is Peter infallible?
I am sure this has been discussed many times and I am sorry to bother you with this again, but I have come accross some new (to me information), I would like to know what is the theological evidence AND the hsitorical evidence for peter being the first pope. Historically is there any evidence that peter was in rome before the 60's ad? and if not how can anyone claim that the peter is the first pope, since the chruch was in existant prior to that?
I am asking this because, i have recently heard on TBN that the diciples went to various cities in the roman empire, after pentecost and estiblished chruch in conjection with the holy spirits work. They said that James actually went to Spain, and set up the chruch there, these are the churches mentioned by paul. could peter have gone to Rome? is this the basis of the claim of peter being the first pope? and if he did, is that enough to quallify Rome as supreme? the man who was saying this was a well respected conservative
prove that ephesus verse was about Paul?
besides, acts 15 was Paul there as an apostle....lol!
you know, the guy that started churches.....
Did peter say Paul was not an apostle?
Originally Posted by LittleLambofJesus
Netzarim [and others like him] is just confused:
He also started this thread on that passage sometime back:
http://www.christianforums.com/t7599812-54/
False Apostle Paul & 2 Peter 3:15-17
.
I just bumped that thread up.
Is all "wisdom" from YHWH? See Jam 3:15
... it all boils down to this one question then: Is Peter infallible?
Indeed, the The Way (Psa 119:1), the Truth (Psa 119:142), and the Life (Prov 13:14) all points to the Torah.Netzarim,
Isn't the scripture wherein Jesus said he was the way, the truth, and the life, metaphorical references to the Torah? (John 14:6)
Why can't you bring yourself to refer to Him as Jesus? John His disciple does.Indeed, the The Way (Psa 119:1), the Truth (Psa 119:142), and the Life (Prov 13:14) all points to the Torah.
I believe Messiah is the embodiment of YHWH's Torah as a man (Jn 1:14, 1Jn 1)
I believe Messiah taught us to listen to the Pharisees when they teach rightly from Torah. I also believe that He taught us to reject their doctrines (their traditions).Oh, I'm not one to argue infallibility. I gave that up when I lost my own infallibility.
What I'm questioning is whether it is necessary to toss out all of Paul in order to follow Jesus when Peter did not seem to think so.
Peter is saying that plenty of people are 'reading' Paul all wrong. I agree with that.
Semantics...that is all it is.......I prefer to call Him by His Hebrew Name - "Yehoshua" or "Yeshua" for short.
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