Those who denounce Paul

[Frogster]

Are you remotely saying that Jesus' example is a command for us? If this is the case you're and every one else isn't in compliance. Furthermore it isn't possible.

zactly..

 

[Frogster]

Peter endorsed Paul in writing. But that isn't good enough for you. The Council at Jerusalem sent Paul with their letter bearing what Paul preached. This was also in writing. And there were more than two doing so at the Council.

true, and as you know....and even one of the prophets from their church, started churches with paul, silas..

there goes the witness thingy..

 

[Frogster]

Where did Peter endorse Paul's doctrines? And with that question, I mean, where did Peter teach Paul's unique doctrines?

Jesus, Paul and peter both say the jews stumbled because of the law, peter spoke about grace as the gospel, in 1 Peter 1, same as Paul. Also in Acts 15, faith and grace, said Peter.

Why would Jesus be a law stumbling block, if the way to him was law?!

 

[Frogster]

Those are not verses which show that Peter was teaching Paul's unique doctrines.

sure he did, Peter said we have escaped the corruption of lust, because we were given a divine nature, just like Paul and the new creation, new man..



Peter said we have a reservation in heaven, so did Paul.


1 Peter 1:4 to an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, kept in heaven for you,


Colossians 1:5
because of the hope laid up for you in heaven. Of this you have heard before in the word of the truth, the gospel,

 

[from scratch]

Those are not verses which show that Peter was teaching Paul's unique doctrines.

They do show Peter endorsed Paul and his teaching.

 

[from scratch]

The righteous diligently walk in lawful obedience. They are not perfect. When they fail, they return quickly to the path of righteousness:

"For a righteous man falleth seven times, and riseth up again ..." Prov 24:16
​

The unrighteous - like the Pharisees - wickedly walks in lawful disobedience, or legalistic obedience.

And what is the result of that imperfection when following the law?

Can or does a person have the righteousness which if after the law by following it or is it the righteousness of God?

 

[from scratch]

The righteous diligently walk in lawful obedience. They are not perfect. When they fail, they return quickly to the path of righteousness:

"For a righteous man falleth seven times, and riseth up again ..." Prov 24:16
​

The unrighteous - like the Pharisees - wickedly walks in lawful disobedience, or legalistic obedience.

My Bible tells me Now we are delivered from the law. It doesn't read now we are delivered from the punishment of the law.

 

[from scratch]

from scratch:

I wasn't sharing the way I live... you know, I wasn't speaking directly to you 'only' or specifically, but I'm glad you answered as you did because you reminded me of my biological mother using that passage (and that particular Commandment on obeying parents) against me (and my sibs) whenever she wanted us to feel guilty that we weren't doing any number of things 'her' way, like making her coffee just right.

When I was 14 and she'd toss out, 'Children obey your parents...', I'd come back with Ephesians 6:4, (Here, I'm using NASB), 'Fathers, do not provoke your children to anger, but bring them up in the discipline and instruction of the Lord.'

I only had the KJV, which is a shame because the NASB 'ending' of this verse, wow, that would have rocked her manipulative world-view (for all of two seconds) when I pointed out my biological father wasn't 'Saved', that was bio-Mom's language: 'Walking with the Lord', 'Saved', 'Mature in Christ' but especially not 'Saved'.

Ah, those were the days

***

You know, it would seem to be common sense that children ought to obey their parents when said parents are relatively sane, law-abiding (talking man's law, you know, 'not sending kids out to steal... and such'), but it doesn't seem to be for many...

My parents expected obedience, quick and complete, regardless of what they asked, Bible or other-based, you know, 'Go get me my (10th) beer', 'Bring me the leather belt' (so I can beat the crap out of one of your sisters), 'Go across the street and get a dime-bag cuz the pusher wants in your pants and gives me 50% off the pot'), and on and on it went, and I was not always obedient, or other times, I was obedient and then stopped obeying, like when the pusher shoved me against the wall and got sexual on me...

'In the Lord', though I did not have the NASB... still, I understood it well enough after I grew up, and I had a 'sense of' it when I was much younger...,

so at some point, and even earlier--on many points, I felt conflicted, guilty, rebellious, scared, hateful, and otherwise troubled, but sometimes just flat out would not do as I was told. (Hence, my mother arranging my marriage to a non-believer when I was 15--and not only was I not pregnant but I was not sexually active or even interested 'sexually' (I read so much my mother hid my books), but bio-mom did everything she could think of, including moving the 19-year-old male in to our house) to get me to be 'bad enough' to get rid of with a relatively clear conscience, you know, what passes for that in some human beings.)

'Children obey your parents in the Lord' still takes some 'thought'; still has much value; and to my mind, is covered under Jesus' pointing to the two greatest commandments to love God with everything we had, and to love our neighbor as ourselves'.

Hard to do those two, eh? But I try; if you knew me, you'd know how hard I try... And if you followed me around--and could read my heart-thoughts--like today--you'd feel purty good, I think, maybe even mighty good to know me...

Peace to you in Christ Jesus,

~ Carolyn (not politically correct, herself, for instance, I do not think of myself as ortho, protesting the Catholic church, or 'legalistic' or 'whatever' someone holding an ax is ready to chop me up over...)

Pretty nice post actually. Great testimony. It is amazing what is done in the name of God.

I had the very same issue you presented with v 4. It is amazing that one is ignored by those using (abusing) vs 1 and 2.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Those who denounce Paul


Brings to mind this thread on a reformer defying/denouncing the Pope.


http://www.christianforums.com/t7495160/
Tyndale and defying the Pope



.

 

[ananda]

They do show Peter endorsed Paul and his teaching.

Peter was warning his readers to not fall into lawlessness after reading Paul & the Scriptures.

 

[ananda]

And what is the result of that imperfection when following the law? Can or does a person have the righteousness which if after the law by following it or is it the righteousness of God?

Whatever is the source of that righteousness doesn't really matter. All He wants us to do is to focus on walking in righteousness.

 

[ananda]

My Bible tells me Now we are delivered from the law. It doesn't read now we are delivered from the punishment of the law.

My Bible & Messiah tells me "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven." and "and then I will acknowledge to them, that -- I never knew you, depart from me ye who are working lawlessness"

 

[seeingeyes]

Peter was warning his readers to not fall into lawlessness after reading Paul & the Scriptures.

"And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures."

Peter did not renounce Paul. He did not say that that Paul's writings caused lawlessness. He said that the ignorant and unstable twist Paul's writings to their own destruction.

 

[Messy]

My Bible & Messiah tells me "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven." and "and then I will acknowledge to them, that -- I never knew you, depart from me ye who are working lawlessness"

We're delivered from the law of sin and death, because we are born again and the old man is dead, so we can be lead by the Spirit.
That doesn't mean we can throw away the law and become lawless. He still judges us by what we did.
for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; 36 I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.’

 

[ananda]

"And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures."

Peter did not renounce Paul. He did not say that that Paul's writings caused lawlessness. He said that the ignorant and unstable twist Paul's writings to their own destruction.

Re-read it again, sister, and don't forget to read 2Pet 3:17 this time

"You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, beware lest you be carried away with the error of lawless men and lose your own stability" (RSV)
​

Unfortunately, most translations decided to hide the implication of this verse by translating ἀθέσμων as "error of the wicked". The word actually means "lawless", or "one who breaks through the restraint of law and gratifies his lusts".

So, that was Peter's conclusion to the verses you quoted. The ignorant and unstable, after reading Paul and the Scriptures, twist them to their own destruction by reading them as supporting lawlessness.

 

[ananda]

We're delivered from the law of sin and death, because we are born again ... so we can be lead by the Spirit.
That doesn't mean we can throw away the law and become lawless. He still judges us by what we did.
for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; 36 I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.’

Amein.

"For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous." 1Jo 5:3

"Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city." Rev 22:14

 

[seeingeyes]

Re-read it again, sister, and don't forget to read 2Pet 3:17 this time

"You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, beware lest you be carried away with the error of lawless men and lose your own stability" (RSV)
​

Unfortunately, most translations decided to hide the implication of this verse by translating ἀθέσμων as "error of the wicked". The word actually means "lawless", or "one who breaks through the restraint of law and gratifies his lusts".

So, that was Peter's conclusion to the verses you quoted. The ignorant and unstable, after reading Paul and the Scriptures, twist them to their own destruction by reading them as supporting lawlessness.

I'm still looking at verse 15, in which Peter calls Paul 'our beloved brother'.

 

[ananda]

I'm still looking at verse 15, in which Peter calls Paul 'our beloved brother'.

Can someone be a brother yet still be false? See Deu 19:18

Can someone be loved while yet an enemy? See Mt 5:44

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by from scratch

They do show Peter endorsed Paul and his teaching.
​

Can someone be a brother yet still be false? See Deu 19:18

I would think so.

However, when Paul converted to Jesus the Christ, when did he ever deny/disown either JESUS or YAHWEH His Father


2Peter 2:1 There became yet also False Prophets in the people, as also in ye shall be False Teachers, whoany shall be carrying in sects of destruction.
And the One buying them, Owner/Master/despothn <1203> disowning, bringing on them swift destruction. [Jeremiah 14:14,15/Matt 24:11/Jude 1:4]

Strong's Concordance with Hebrew and Greek Lexicon

Strong's Number G1203 matches the Greek &#948;&#949;&#963;&#960;&#8057;&#964;&#951;&#962; (despot&#275;s), which occurs 10 times in 10 verses in the Greek concordance of the KJV

1203. despotes perhaps from 1210 and posis (a husband); an absolute ruler ("despot"):--Lord, master.



.

 

[seeingeyes]

Can someone be a brother yet still be false? See Deu 19:18

Are we to love or hate our enemies? See Mt 5:44

I don't recall Jesus calling the Pharisees 'beloved brother' and reminding others of the 'wisdom given to' them. It was something more like 'vipers' and 'children of hell' and 'don't eat that yeast'.

So either Peter is showing more lenience to Pharisees than Jesus did (making him suspect as well) or Peter considered Paul to be 'in the fold', and worth listening to (albeit with discretion).