Those who become atheist "were never true Christians"?

[CrystalDragon]

Why do some people say that if someone was Christian and then became atheist or agnostic, they weren't ever really a Christian or ever really saved?

I find it insulting and hurtful to those who earnestly sought Jesus and did not find, especially those who were minsters or otherwise devout Christians before their deconversion.

 

[Korean-American Christian]

Why do some people say that if someone was Christian and then became atheist or agnostic, they weren't ever really a Christian or ever really saved?

I find it insulting and hurtful to those who earnestly sought Jesus and did not find, especially those who were minsters or otherwise devout Christians before their deconversion.

People who say this are not trying to intentionally be insulting or hurtful.

Some Christians (myself included) believe that once you are saved by Jesus Christ, you are saved forever....and no one can take your salvation away from you....once saved, always saved.

If once saved, always saved...is true, then it is impossible for a Christian to become an atheist or agnostic.

For this reason, people who become atheists or agnostics were never true Christians

I hope this makes sense

 

[Saucy]

Matthew 7:7-8, "7 “Ask and it will be given to you, seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives; the one who seeks finds and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened."

If they came to Christ, Christ doesn't turn anyone away. Maybe they felt pressure to do so and was being nice or whatever happened. Maybe they came, but discovered they had to change too much of themselves or they'd rather keep living life as they are...whatever the reason. Christianity isn't a feeling. It's not about warm fuzzies. It's not about living a comfortable life. We must die to self, take up the cross, and follow Him. The world hates Christ and they hate Christians. You can see that in the world.

If people walk away, it's because they wanted to, not that they didn't find. He's right there, waiting to be accepted. And when He is, He will fill your heart and you become sealed with the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption.

Jesus also said that not everyone who says "Lord, Lord" shall enter the kingdom of Heaven and that's because they never really sought out a relationship with Him. It was all about vanity, a status thing to look good, or a popularity contest. But if Christ says that if you seek you will find, then I believe every single person who turns away from Christ did so out of personal choice and not because they didn't find Him.

 

[CrystalDragon]

People who say this are not trying to intentionally be insulting or hurtful.

Some Christians (myself included) believe that once you are saved by Jesus Christ, you are saved forever....and no one can take your salvation away from you....once saved, always saved.

If once saved, always saved...is true, then it is impossible for a Christian to become an atheist or agnostic.

For this reason, people who become atheists or agnostics were never true Christians

I hope this makes sense

I understand where you're coming from, but it's like claiming someone who becomes vegetarian never really ate meat.

 

[CrystalDragon]

Matthew 7:7-8, "7 “Ask and it will be given to you, seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives; the one who seeks finds and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened."

If they came to Christ, Christ doesn't turn anyone away. Maybe they felt pressure to do so and was being nice or whatever happened. Maybe they came, but discovered they had to change too much of themselves or they'd rather keep living life as they are...whatever the reason. Christianity isn't a feeling. It's not about warm fuzzies. It's not about living a comfortable life. We must die to self, take up the cross, and follow Him. The world hates Christ and they hate Christians. You can see that in the world.

If people walk away, it's because they wanted to, not that they didn't find. He's right there, waiting to be accepted. And when He is, He will fill your heart and you become sealed with the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption.

Jesus also said that not everyone who says "Lord, Lord" shall enter the kingdom of Heaven and that's because they never really sought out a relationship with Him. It was all about vanity, a status thing to look good, or a popularity contest. But if Christ says that if you seek you will find, then I believe every single person who turns away from Christ did so out of personal choice and not because they didn't find Him.

... If you really think like this, then I recommend you give this a read: Why I Am No Longer a Christian It shows how people can genuinely seek and not find, and they REALLY don't want to become atheist but they can't force themselves to believe something even if they used to with their whole being.

 

[SkyWriting]

Why do some people say that if someone was Christian and then became atheist or agnostic, they weren't ever really a Christian or ever really saved?
I find it insulting and hurtful to those who earnestly sought Jesus and did not find, especially those who were minsters or otherwise devout Christians before their deconversion.

I love people who do that. I work at not being insulted by things people say.

 

[Left]

 

[Saucy]

You can't force yourself to believe something you don't want to believe in. The evidence is there. I was a militant atheist. I was so high on evolution and the idea that God can't be real because science has it all explained. No, science doesn't have even close to all of it explained. I accepted Christ not too long after looking for him, but again, it's not about a feeling. It's a relationship. You don't just 'get saved' and continue on like nothing has changed in your life. You have to earnestly seek answers.

Philippians 2:12 says, "Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed--not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence--continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling."

Sadly, people run at the first sign of trouble. I know a lot of people who wanted to become a Christian, said they gave it a shot, but it wasn't what they wanted, so they walked away. Every single situation was the same. Something tough happened in their life, they blamed God, and ultimately went round and round in their head that a loving God wouldn't make them ensure said thing, so He either is a monster or He's not real.

His ways are not our ways. As humans, we do not fully understand God, nor are we really looking for authority figures in our lives when we're adults. We want things our way. We're selfish. We want a comfortable life and if we don't get it, we throw fits and blame everything and everyone else for our problems. People who turn their back on God do it for selfish reasons. It's never because they didn't find Him.

 

[Korean-American Christian]

People who turn their back on God do it for selfish reasons. It's never because they didn't find Him.

I agree

 

[NothingIsImpossible]

I think for many they are obviously true God fearing Christians. BUT because life can have some very hard trials, they stop believing and hence because atheist/agnostic. Doesn't mean they were never really a christian. It just means the pressure of life (or whatever happened) was to much and they gave up on God.

Me? I was saved when I was younger. But by the time 16 rolled around my health took a crazy turn for the worst. I got mad at God. Insulted Him. Did what sins I wanted to with no care. Stopped praying. Stopped going to church really...etc. Now I told God he wasn't real. BUT... despite all that deep down I knew He was still real and its why I was conflicted inside because I knew being how I was meant going down a path that could send me to hell if I truly stopped believing. Though obviously in my mind fearing Him meant I still obviously believed in Him. After I got back on path things were all good.

So I imagine thats how it is for some. Except they truly stop believing. And I do believe at that point when you don't even have any feelings of Him being real, you lose something. I don't want to say salvation per say, but more of you lose your ticket to heaven. Which I guess technically is your salvation. But you can still get the right ticket if you repent and change things for the better again.

BTW I used to believe OSAS but I realized that makes no sense at all. Lets for argument sake say Hitler was a christian. And then he did all that he did with the nazis. BUT he also became a pedophile (just to make him even more evil). Would he still go to heaven? No. Which is why OSAS is wrong. I do believe its hard to lose your salvation (like you REALLY got to be dark, evil and distant) but it is possible.

Am I right? Who knows. Only God knows. I'd never question ones salvation if I think they are on a dark path. I know my mom thinks her bad lifestyle is ok and if she commits suicide she goes to heaven. I've tried telling her she won't but again I am not God.

 

[Left]

What turned me away is not only did my Christian tutor who learned me some Christianity turn on me, but I read some posts which questioned the Christian faith.

But the Lord called back to me (metaphorically), I guess you could say.

 

[Emli]

I think that the problem is that they search for something else than Christ, and can't find Him even though they look, or when they find the real Christ, He isn't what they expected, and they turn their back on Him.

Or they are looking in the wrong way or the wrong place. Maybe they are looking for scientific evidence, or reading the Bible in their own understanding.

Finding Jesus means to believe in Him in your heart, and repenting of your sinful ways. Then He comes and makes a home with you. You have to commit your life to Him and make Him the Lord over your life. That isn't an easy thing to do for most people, and there are so many false doctrines out there and false Christianity that doesn't save.

So I wouldn't say that it's insulting to say so. It's just the way it is. Some are saved, some aren't. Not all those who call Jesus 'Lord, Lord' will enter Heaven.

 

[dhh712]

Why do some people say that if someone was Christian and then became atheist or agnostic, they weren't ever really a Christian or ever really saved?

I find it insulting and hurtful to those who earnestly sought Jesus and did not find, especially those who were minsters or otherwise devout Christians before their deconversion.

It's not meant to be insulting, it's just the truth as the Lord describes it in his word to us. 1 John 2:19 comes to mind, "They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us".

 

[CrystalDragon]

Before I reply to these, could a mod move this thread to the right Discussion and Debate section so atheists can also participate?

 

[PloverWing]

Why do some people say that if someone was Christian and then became atheist or agnostic, they weren't ever really a Christian or ever really saved?

I find it insulting and hurtful to those who earnestly sought Jesus and did not find, especially those who were minsters or otherwise devout Christians before their deconversion.

I think it's usually an attempt to preserve the doctrines of Once Saved Always Saved or Perseverance of the Saints.

The uncomfortable truth is that some people report having been Christians, and then report that they have become atheists. I agree with you that it dishonors them to reject their stories as being impossible. Whatever doctrines of salvation the Christian church holds, it needs to take into account the actual experiences of actual people.

 

[dhh712]

... If you really think like this, then I recommend you give this a read: Why I Am No Longer a Christian It shows how people can genuinely seek and not find, and they REALLY don't want to become atheist but they can't force themselves to believe something even if they used to with their whole being.

This is why (correct) doctrine is so important. This person's story is no different from the ones that turned away from God because of something they perceive as God failing to do in their lives. At the center is self-worship and not submission to Lord Jesus.

 

[Rajni]

If once saved, always saved...is true, then it is impossible for a Christian to become an atheist or agnostic.

Or it's possible they're still Christian from an objective standpoint, but they've
simply gotten side-tracked for a time and feel it more honest to not claim the
title "Christian" until they've gotten their equilibrium back.

Only God knows for sure.

 

[SolomonVII]

It reminds me a little of the Catholic teaching on marriage an divorce. Church teaching doesn't really believe in divorce, so annulments are granted on the grounds that the marriage wasn't really a marriage in the first place.

Some things are forever, or they are not things at all.
Resurrection is forever, joined to a God who is in the beginning and the end, and in the eternal now. Here today, and gone tomorrow is not really good news at all, neither in marriage, nor in the bit about 'oh death where is thy sting'.

 

[SolomonVII]

“Now listen to the explanation of the parable about the farmer planting seeds: 19 The seed that fell on the footpath represents those who hear the message about the Kingdom and don’t understand it. Then the evil one comes and snatches away the seed that was planted in their hearts.20 The seed on the rocky soil represents those who hear the message and immediately receive it with joy. 21 But since they don’t have deep roots, they don’t last long. They fall away as soon as they have problems or are persecuted for believing God’s word. 22 The seed that fell among the thorns represents those who hear God’s word, but all too quickly the message is crowded out by the worries of this life and the lure of wealth, so no fruit is produced. 23 The seed that fell on good soil represents those who truly hear and understand God’s word and produce a harvest of thirty, sixty, or even a hundred times as much as had been planted!”

 

[SPF]

Why do some people say that if someone was Christian and then became atheist or agnostic, they weren't ever really a Christian or ever really saved?

I find it insulting and hurtful to those who earnestly sought Jesus and did not find, especially those who were minsters or otherwise devout Christians before their deconversion.

What do you think John meant in 1 John 2:19 - They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that it would be shown that they all are not of us.

Ephesians 3 also tells us that when we were forgiven of our sins we were marked with the seal of the Holy Spirit. The language of Salvation is one from death to life, we are adopted and become as children. I don't see the HS breaking His seal, nor do I see how we can be unborn after being reborn.