Thomas Paine Answers AV1611VET's Apple Challenge

[AV1611VET]

How does this change the fact that your 4.5 billion year old earth created 6,000 years ago has a history much longer than 6,000 years?

I don't buy that --- and I don't buy it on principle.

I've seen examples of your "history": Gilgamesh before Noah, Egypt before Noah, trees with thousands of rings, etc.

Remember Genesis 2 and God hypergrowing a garden --- causing it to spring up in one day, with trees that were probably tens of years old?

Had you have been there and cut one of those trees down and found, say, 35 rings --- would you have concluded that that tree had been there 35 years?http://www.christianforums.com/t7298808/#post49046438

How does this change the fact that Adam and Eve and 6,000 years of their offsprings simply could not have produced the variation in genetic material that we see today in humans?

Beats me --- perhaps it was mass-produced by Someone?

(And before you go shouting "Omphalos" --- let me remind you --- God documented what He did to clarify otherwise.)

 

[MoonLancer]

I've seen examples of your "history": Gilgamesh before Noah, Egypt before Noah, trees with thousands of rings, etc.

unless you can find older stone tablets then gilgamesh, i am afraid for the moment you are wrong about Noah.

Had you have been there and cut one of those trees down and found, say, 35 rings --- would you have concluded that that tree had been there 35 years?Beats me --- perhaps it was mass-produced by Someone?

it would most likely be the same number of rings only REALLY REALLY BIG RINGS.

(And before you go shouting "Omphalos" --- let me remind you --- God documented what He did to clarify otherwise.)

your right, his documentation is in all of nature and it shows that humans documentation (the bible) is wrong.

ps show me the documentation of embedded age, otherwise your claim that god really diden't document much unless you mean nature, which is really well documented and doesn't agree with mans documentation (again the bible).

 

[LightSeaker]

--- let me remind you --- God documented what He did to clarify otherwise.)

Than why is there is so much confusion and miss-information coming out of the young earth camp?



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[LightSeaker]

I don't buy that --- and I don't buy it on principle.

I've seen examples of your "history": Gilgamesh before Noah, Egypt before Noah, trees with thousands of rings, etc.

Remember Genesis 2 and God hypergrowing a garden --- causing it to spring up in one day, with trees that were probably tens of years old?

Had you have been there and cut one of those trees down and found, say, 35 rings --- would you have concluded that that tree had been there 35 years?Beats me --- perhaps it was mass-produced by Someone?

(And before you go shouting "Omphalos" --- let me remind you --- God documented what He did to clarify otherwise.)

Oh...by the way...God Documented what he did with in His Own Creation itself. What His Creation is showing us is much more accurate and gives a lot more detail than do the myths of an ancient middle-eastern nomadic desert tribe that are documented in Scripture.
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[AV1611VET]

your right, his documentation is in all of nature and it shows that humans documentation (the bible) is wrong.

God reveals Himself in two ways:

1. General Revelation = through Nature
2. Special Revelation = through His Word

And coming from God, the two should not conflict.

God is not the author of confusion.

 

[AV1611VET]

Than why is there is so much confusion and miss-information coming out of the young earth camp?

I'm not [totally] familiar with YEC doctrine --- not being one myself.

You'll have to ask them.

 

[LightSeaker]

And coming from God, the two should not conflict.

And when they do?

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[AV1611VET]

Oh...by the way...God Documented what he did with in His Own Creation itself. What His Creation is showing us is much more accurate and gives a lot more detail than do the myths of an ancient middle-eastern nomadic desert tribe that are documented in Scripture.

What nature is showing us is that she is groaning and awaiting the Second Coming of Jesus Christ.

Like I said, you see a beautiful Grand Canyon --- I see a terrible rip in the earth --- caused by sin.

 

[AV1611VET]

And coming from God, the two should not conflict.

And when they do?

Then science can take a hike.

 

[Danyc]

What nature is showing us is that she is groaning and awaiting the Second Coming of Jesus Christ.

Like I said, you see a beautiful Grand Canyon --- I see a terrible rip in the earth --- caused by sin.

And what on earth makes it a "terrible rip"?

Are you being serious? Is erosion caused by sin now? You mean that, befor there was sin, there was no erosion? That moving water would not flow past sand and, in touching it, transfer kinetic energy into mechanical energy and push the sand?

This is what erosion is at its core. This is what caused the Grand Canyon.

Obviously it was caused by sin.

Just listen to yourself.

 

[AV1611VET]

And what on earth makes it a "terrible rip"?

Are you being serious? Is erosion caused by sin now? You mean that, befor there was sin, there was no erosion? That moving water would not flow past sand and, in touching it, transfer mechanical energy into kinetic energy and push the sand?

This is what erosion is at its core. This is what caused the Grand Canyon.

Obviously it was caused by sin.

Just listen to yourself.

When the earth opened up to swallow --- who was it? --- Dathan, Abiram, and Korah (?) --- was that "erosion"?

Then when the earth closed back, was that "reverse erosion"?

 

[MoonLancer]

God is not the author of confusion.

your right in a way. God diden't write the bible. Nothing confusing about it. writings of man vs nature and reality... hmmmm lets think, which one is the more fallible?

 

[MoonLancer]

Then when the earth closed back, was that "reverse erosion"?

the sliding of tectonic plates silly.

 

[LightSeaker]

Then when the earth closed back, was that "reverse erosion"?

Av, I love your sense of humor.

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[LightSeaker]

Remember Genesis 2 and God hypergrowing a garden --- causing it to spring up in one day, with trees that were probably tens of years old?

Please...please I beg of you....please don't open up the "Would God lie to us, can of warms!!!"

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[pgp_protector]

Av, I love your sense of humor.

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I don't think it's humor.

 

[AV1611VET]

I don't think it's humor.

Some is, some ain't --

 

[Tomatoman]

AV:

Like I said, you see a beautiful Grand Canyon --- I see a terrible rip in the earth --- caused by sin.

I just feel sorry for you, AV. Religion has stolen your life away from you.

 

[AV1611VET]

AV:


I just feel sorry for you, AV. Religion has stolen your life away from you.

Right concept -- accurate word choice -- wrong religion.

John 10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

 

[Split Rock]

AV:


I just feel sorry for you, AV. Religion has stolen your life away from you.

Right concept -- accurate word choice -- wrong religion.

John 10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

I think he means that you seem to see life in the real world as bad... full of sin and just waiting to be saved. Won't it be disappointing if you die and there is no where to go after death? Instead of disparaging the short time we have on earth, you could have been appreciating it more...