Thomas Jefferson Statue Toppled

[Ana the Ist]

Thomas Jefferson statue toppled in Oregon

A statue of Thomas Jefferson was reportedly toppled Sunday night outside a high school in Portland, Ore., named for the former president.

The statue's base was spray painted with the phrase "slave owner," as well as George Floyd's name before the statue was toppled, according to local reports.

Jefferson High School was reportedly the starting point for a march organized by Rose City Justice as part of the nationwide demonstrations over police brutality sparked by the killing of Floyd.

I remember back when the whole "let's destroy these statues" thing started. I remember having discussions on here where I asked what people would support if it happened to Jefferson or Lincoln.

I was told I was being irrational. I was told they were only going after statues that were set up by people wanting to celebrate the Confederacy. I was told that it was all about the reason why the statue was put up....not the statue itself.

It turns out I was right, and others didn't know what they were talking about. Thoughts?

 

[Not David]

It's the destruction of America's foundation caused by people who have not attachment to this country.

 

[Caliban]

Thomas Jefferson statue toppled in Oregon



I remember back when the whole "let's destroy these statues" thing started. I remember having discussions on here where I asked what people would support if it happened to Jefferson or Lincoln.

I was told I was being irrational. I was told they were only going after statues that were set up by people wanting to celebrate the Confederacy. I was told that it was all about the reason why the statue was put up....not the statue itself.

It turns out I was right, and others didn't know what they were talking about. Thoughts?

They will pull down a few good statues. but, most people are very reasonable and will not support the damage of significant monuments--thinking of Jefferson and Lincoln in D.C. That would be tragic and the park service will not let that happen. Radicals will not be able to convince most local governments to willingly take down a Jefferson or Lincoln monument. I think there is a difference between the unauthorized destruction of monuments by crowds and the removal of monuments by civil authorities. If a community wants to remove a monument and lobbies the government to do it--fine. The unauthorized destruction of property is not a good thing. Local governments will have to take down confederate monuments if legal pressure is applied in most cases; that should probably be the course taken.

 

[MehGuy]

Stuff like this was bound to escalate, and it will only escalate further in the future. While I personally find it kind of sad, as someone who is not African American I can sort of understand their distaste with such statues. As a kid when we were learning about George Washington and how much a hero he was, I always thought it was awkward for the few black kids in the class. George Washington might look down lovingly at us white kids from the clouds, but in a black kid's mind he would probably look in disgust at the few black kids in class. Lol.

I don't know, I guess I'm sort of in the mixed feelings camp regarding this. Just something that is going to happen as the racial demographics change.

 

[public hermit]

It's the destruction of America's foundation

I don't understand this assertion. This country was not founded on statues of prominent people. Do you mean that by tearing down the statues they are destroying the founding documents or the ideas of the founding documents?

 

[Not David]

Stuff like this was bound to escalate, and it will only escalate further in the future. While I personally find it kind of sad, as someone who is not African American I can sort of understand their distaste with such statues. As a kid when we were learning about George Washington and how much a hero he was, I always thought it was awkward for the few black kids in the class. George Washington might look down lovingly at us white kids from the clouds, but in a black kid's mind he would probably look in disgust at the few black kids in class. Lol.

I don't know, I guess I'm sort of in the mixed feelings camp regarding this. Just something that is going to happen as the racial demographics change.

I don't like Thomas Jefferson for some of his opinions on Christianity but I recognize he is one of the people who made the country we live today.

 

[Not David]

I don't understand this assertion. This country was not founded on statues of prominent people. Do you mean that by tearing down the statues they are destroying the founding documents or the ideas of the founding documents?

The statues are a symbol of America pre-1960

 

[Desk trauma]

The statues are a symbol of America pre-1960

Does their destruction cause our laws to evaporate and libraries burn?

 

[Not David]

Does their destruction cause our laws to evaporate and libraries burn?

Yes.

 

[Caliban]

The statues are a symbol of America pre-1960

But, there is no need for every generation to venerate the past--especially ideas were have grown intolerant of. There is a big difference between Jefferson and a confederate General.

 

[agapelove]

Thomas Jefferson wrote that all men are created equal, a sentiment he obviously didn’t believe in considering he enslaved his own children.

 

[Caliban]

Thomas Jefferson wrote that all men are created equal, a sentiment he obviously didn’t believe in considering he enslaved his own children.

Not the whole story. The Sally Hemings debate provides hard questions for any conception of freedom. Historians struggle to find agreement here. Several Black intellectuals have surprising and heterodox things to say about it.

 

[Desk trauma]

Yes.

I see, which laws were stricken from they books by this statue toppling and what was the location of the library that spontaneously caught fire?

 

[public hermit]

The statues are a symbol of America pre-1960

Someone could argue that tearing down symbols that represent those who supported inequality among humans (i.e. slavery) is getting us closer to the ideas upon which this country was founded. "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal..." Sometimes, great ideas aren't represented sufficiently by those who speak them or write them. At any rate, what matters is not statues, but real flesh and blood Americans embodying the great principles upon which this country was founded. Let all the statues come down just so long as we get better at living the ideas.

 

[Not David]

But, there is no need for every generation to venerate the past--especially ideas were have grown intolerant of. There is a big difference between Jefferson and a confederate General.

I find no fault on both.

 

[Not David]

I see, which laws were stricken from they books by this statue toppling and what was the location of the library that spontaneously caught fire?

Hey, your question sucked so I gave you the same level answer yet you give me an even worse question.

Before I put you in ignore I got to say unregulated Capital sucks and it is rootless and bourgeoise

 

[Not David]

Someone could argue that tearing down symbols that represent those who supported inequality among humans (i.e. slavery) is getting us closer to the ideas upon which this country was founded. "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal..." Sometimes, great ideas aren't represented sufficiently by those who speak them or write them. At any rate, what matters is not statues, but real flesh and blood Americans embodying the great principles upon which this country was founded. Let all the statues come down just so long as we get better at living the ideas.

Tearing down statues just represents that people living in the US are rootless who don't care about their heritage (or probably they don't have any) yet they live off the people who they want to tear down.

What does "equal" meant there, especially since only white men with property could vote?

 

[Desk trauma]

Someone could argue that tearing down symbols that represent those who supported inequality among humans (i.e. slavery) is getting us closer to the ideas upon which this country was founded. "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal..." Sometimes, great ideas aren't represented sufficiently by those who speak them or write them. At any rate, what matters is not statues, but real flesh and blood Americans embodying the great principles upon which this country was founded. Let all the statues come down just so long as we get better at living the ideas.

What also much be kept in mind, as I have said in other threads, these statues are not history. At most they are references to history which is to be found elsewhere. They are fancy versions of the roadside historical marker. Some drunk plowing one of those down with their car does not cause the thing they reference to be stricken from the books anymore than this statue falling causes Jefferson to be stricken from memory.

Were these knuckle draggers burning unique undigitized primary sources like a pack of conquistadors who blundered upon a cace of a Mayan Codices they would be attempting to erase history and I would be right there up in arms about it. They are not doing so, if they even know what a primary source is.

 

[Desk trauma]

Hey, your question sucked so I gave you the same level answer yet you give me an even worse question.

Before I put you in ignore I got to say unregulated Capital sucks and it is rootless and bourgeoise

I do love a good rage quit/ignore.

 

[Chesterton]