This verse scares me

[MidnightCry]

Daniel Chapter 8 tells us that Lucifer will arise at the end of time and be a stern faced king that will be very evil and destructive. I find Daniel 8:24 to be really frightening.

His power shall be mighty, but not by his own power; He shall destroy fearfully, and shall prosper and thrive; He shall destroy the mighty, and also the holy people.

He is given much power by God to destroy the holy people. Does anyone else find this verse scary? It says we will be destroyed.

YSIC,
MidnightCry

 

[ricker]

Daniel Chapter 8 tells us that Lucifer will arise at the end of time and be a stern faced king that will be very evil and destructive. I find Daniel 8:24 to be really frightening.

His power shall be mighty, but not by his own power; He shall destroy fearfully, and shall prosper and thrive; He shall destroy the mighty, and also the holy people.

He is given much power by God to destroy the holy people. Does anyone else find this verse scary? It says we will be destroyed.

YSIC,
MidnightCry

This may be speaking of future, or past events, or both. Certainly God's people have been persecuted and killed.

I believe visions such as this were given to encourage us to hold strong to our faith in the face of adversity of all kinds, knowing God will be with us.

 

[Adventist Heretic]

I think it is talking about Antiocus

 

[stinsonmarri]

Daniel Chapter 8 tells us that Lucifer will arise at the end of time and be a stern faced king that will be very evil and destructive. I find Daniel 8:24 to be really frightening.

His power shall be mighty, but not by his own power; He shall destroy fearfully, and shall prosper and thrive; He shall destroy the mighty, and also the holy people.

He is given much power by God to destroy the holy people. Does anyone else find this verse scary? It says we will be destroyed.

YSIC,
MidnightCry

Even thought Satan is behind all evil this text is not dealing with Satan. It is talking about a man!

Blessings,
stinsonmarri

 

[MidnightCry]

Even thought Satan is behind all evil this text is not dealing with Satan. It is talking about a man!

Blessings,
stinsonmarri

Greetings stinsonmarri,

I agree that this verse is talking about a man, Lucifer, to be exact. He will become king over earth for a short time and rule with his ten kings before Christ returns. He will also destroy the saints. Many people will lose their faith. To me it will be a very scary time. I am praying my faith will be strong.

I am also sad the church is not telling people what is coming soon upon the earth.

YSIC,
MidnightCry

 

[Adventist Heretic]

Greetings stinsonmarri,

I agree that this verse is talking about a man, Lucifer, to be exact. He will become king over earth for a short time and rule with his ten kings before Christ returns. He will also destroy the saints. Many people will lose their faith. To me it will be a very scary time. I am praying my faith will be strong.

I am also sad the church is not telling people what is coming soon upon the earth.

YSIC,
MidnightCry

MC how do you get Luicfer out of that text?

 

[MidnightCry]

MC how do you get Luicfer out of that text?

Greetings icedragon,

So glad you asked.

In Daniel 8, the two beasts represent empires, but the horns of the ram and the goat represent kings. This is important because the horn power in this vision is not attached to a beast (a world empire.) The Bible also says this horn power is a king. (Daniel 8:23) Daniel was told this king will exalt himself to be as great as the Prince of the host, Jesus Christ. (Daniel 8:11) The horn power in Daniel 8 is a stern-faced king that will rule over Earth during the Great Tribulation. (Daniel 11:36)

The horn power does not originate within an earthly kingdom. The Antichrist just appears our of nowhere. The Bible tells us he comes from the north, out of one of the four winds. The direction of north is important because ancient peoples believed that divine judgments came down form the north. Some verses that demonstrate this are Jeremiah 6:22,23 -- Jeremiah 25:9 -- Jeremiah 46:13,20,21 -- Jeremiah 50: 2,3 -- Ezekiel 38:14-16.

The horn power in Daniel 8 descends from the north because north is a meaningful direction. The direction of "north" became a significant direction when Lucifer began campaigning against Christ in Heaven.

"For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into Heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most high." (Isaiah 14:13,14)

The phrase, "the sides of the north," refers to the location of God's throne. God's throne was located on the higher side or the north side of Heaven's temple. (The Table of Showbread, which represented God's throne, was placed on the north side of the earthly temple.) Thus, knowing this and God's consistent use of the direction of "north" in the Old Testament indicate the divine authority or judgment originates on "the sides of the north."

Gabriel told Daniel," ...I am going to tell you what will happen later in the time of wrath, because the vision concerns the appointed time of the end." (Daniel 8:19) Since the ram and the goat represent ancient empires, this leaves the horn power as the only element in this vision that can appear at "the appointed time of the end." What is the appointed time of the end? The appointed time of the end occurs after 1844. So, the horn power in Daniel 8 does not appear prior to 1844. The horn power has to appear at the time of the end. We are now living in that time period.

Daniel 8 reveals that the Antichrist will destroy the authority of the papacy by casting all religions to the ground and trampling on them. The Antichrist "will exalt himself over everything that is called God" by doing miracles. The Antichrist will abolish all religious systems, including the papacy, to establish his global religion. The horn power in Daniel 8 cannot be destroyed by human power. The king of the north in Daniel 11:36 and the stern-faced king that comes out of the north in Daniel 8 are the same entity.

There is much more to this, but I hope this helps you in your study of Daniel 8.

YSIC,
MidnightCry

 

[Kira Light]

Bring it.

 

[branchofthevine]

maybe reading the verse in context will help you not freak out as much, now I'm not big on end time prophecies or whatever it is called these days, but don't be afraid of this verse, there are others verses scarier than this

The vision is in reference to the "time of the end" (v 17) though the end of what? we don't really know.
also in the "latter time of the indignation" (v19)
but we don't know (from these verses anyways) when that is.

this part is an explanation of a vision Daniel saw in 8:1-14
the ram he saw was the Medes and Persians (v20)
the male goat is the kingdom of Greece (v21)
the four kingdoms in verse 22 that rise from the broken horn are:Seleucids in Asia Minor and the Middle East, the Antigonids in Macedon (an area partly encompassing Greece), the Attalids in Pergamum (Asia Minor) and the Ptolemys in Egypt.
very good so far
verse 23 "in the latter time of their kingdom" so obviously the time nearing the end of these four kingdoms which is still BC time, "a king shall arise"
the description of this king is from the rest of 23 through 25
This seems to talk about the rise of Rome, but i don't know the name of this "King" since I'm not caught up on m Rise of Rome History. Oh well, it is what it is.

I don't know how you can get Lucifer when reading in context, but this is something that happened way in the past.

 

[MidnightCry]

Bring it.

hehe... I like your attitude, Kira Light.


OK. Let's just think about a few facts for a minute. First of all, in Matthew 24, Jesus warns us not to be deceived. He warns us of false prophets and false christs that will appear prior to His coming. He tells us they will show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. (This wording is also used in Rev. 13 -- a beast showing great signs.) Jesus also says if someone tells you, "Look, He is in the desert! ....or Look, He is in the inner rooms! do not believe it."

Paul also tells us in Thessalonians: "And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, sings, and lying wonders, .....And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie,..." (2Thessalonians 2:8-11)

So we know the lawless one, or Satan is coming and will appear at the end of time prior to the return of Christ. This is a huge event that Jesus warns us about. Doesn't it make sense that He would put this event in the Book of Daniel and Revelation? How could He not place the coming of Satan, a one time event that will occur in the history of the earth, in His two books devoted to prophecy? He surely wants us to know and be prepared for this event.

Second, there is a pattern we can see as each kingdom arises and then falls to the next kingdom. When Israel became full of rebellion and idols, God sent a destroyer because His patience with sin and rebellion has a limit. God fully warned Israel about His forthcoming actions through His prophets, but Israel did not listen. He made it clear that He was going to use the sword of King Nebuchadnezzar against His people. There is a lesson here for us, God's treatment of Israel is a mirror reflecting how He treats all nations. If God destroyed Jerusalem and His chosen people because of sin and degeneracy, we can be sure that He has followed the same policy with all nations.

God sent King Nebuchadnezzar, king of Babylon, from the north (there's the north again) to destroy Israel. (Jeremiah 25:9) When Babylon became full of rebellion, God sent the Medes/Persians to destroy them. Next, God sent Alexander the Great as a destroyer. After the Grecian Empire, God used the Romans as a destroyer.

The fifth kingdom, represented by the feet of iron and clay, represents the breakup of the Roman empire into many kingdoms; some strong and others weak. When Rome fell in AD 476, a distinctive change occurred. After this date, the empires of world were no longer universal. Instead, the world was permanently fractured into small empires. One-world empires like Babylon, Medo-Persia, Grecia and Rome will not exist again until God permits the Antichrist to rule over Earth during the Great Tribulation.

When our world becomes full of rebellion and sin, and God's patience runs out, He will send Satan to destroy all governments and religions. He will allow Satan to rule for a short time prior to His coming. Daniel 8 tells us:

* when transgressors have reached their fullness
* A king shall arise, having fierce features
* his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power (God gives him power)
* he shall prosper and thrive
* he shall destroy the mighty, and also the holy people
* he shall rise against the Prince of princes (Jesus, at the end of time)
* he shall be broken without human means (Jesus will destroy him)

Daniel 11 gives us further details about this destroyer:

* he shall exalt and magnify himself above every god, shall speak blasphemies against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the wrath has been accomplished
* he shall regard neither the God of his fathers nor the desire of women, nor regard any god, for he shall exalt himself above them all
* he shall come to his end, and no one will help him

Satan will be allowed to have a kingdom for a short time. Then Jesus will come as our Savior and also as a Destroyer. He will destroy Satan's Empire.

"And in the days of these kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which shall never be destroyed; ....it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand forever." (Daniel 2:44)

Beginning with the kingdom of Babylon, God had predestined the appearing of seven global empires. Think of the number seven as God's signature. The number seven suggests fullness or completeness. We are living in the feet, some strong nations and some weak. Next will be the kingdom of the toes. Which is Satan and his ten ruler kings over the earth. Then the Rock will come and shatter all of man's empires and set up a kingdom that lasts forever! I can't wait! And I think we are close!

YSIC,
MidnightCry

 

[MidnightCry]

maybe reading the verse in context will help you not freak out as much, now I'm not big on end time prophecies or whatever it is called these days, but don't be afraid of this verse, there are others verses scarier than this

The vision is in reference to the "time of the end" (v 17) though the end of what? we don't really know.
also in the "latter time of the indignation" (v19)
but we don't know (from these verses anyways) when that is.

this part is an explanation of a vision Daniel saw in 8:1-14
the ram he saw was the Medes and Persians (v20)
the male goat is the kingdom of Greece (v21)
the four kingdoms in verse 22 that rise from the broken horn are:Seleucids in Asia Minor and the Middle East, the Antigonids in Macedon (an area partly encompassing Greece), the Attalids in Pergamum (Asia Minor) and the Ptolemys in Egypt.
very good so far
verse 23 "in the latter time of their kingdom" so obviously the time nearing the end of these four kingdoms which is still BC time, "a king shall arise"
the description of this king is from the rest of 23 through 25
This seems to talk about the rise of Rome, but i don't know the name of this "King" since I'm not caught up on m Rise of Rome History. Oh well, it is what it is.

I don't know how you can get Lucifer when reading in context, but this is something that happened way in the past.

Greetings,

In Daniel 8, the two beasts represent empires, but the horns of the ram and of the goat represent kings.

The ram's two horns represent the kings of the Medes/Persians.
The goat's horn, which was broke when he was strong, is Alexander the Great.
The four horns represent four generals that eventually gained control of Alexander's empire. (Cassander, Lysimachus, Ptolemy, Seleucus.)

The horn power that arises in Daniel 8 is not attached to any beast. The Bible says this horn power is a king. (Daniel 8:23) Therefore, this horn power cannot be Rome. Rome is not even mentioned in this vision. God is consistent. The horns represent kings in this vision, not a kingdom.

Please show me where in Daniel 8 you find Rome. I don't see it. Also, where does it say this horn power is something that happened, as you say "way in the past."?

Read Daniel 8:16-19. "...the vision concerns the time of the end....I am going to tell you what will happen later in the time of wrath, because the vision concerns the appointed time of the end."

Gabriel twice emphasized the point that this vision concerns "the time of the end" or "the appointed time of the end." The word "appointed" means the time of the end was set or predetermined long ago. This is why Gabriel calls it "the appointed time of the end." God has set a date for the Great Tribulation to begin.

The ram and the goat in Daniel 8 are not end-time players. These world empires disappeared more than two thousand years ago. However, the horn power, or "the stern-faced king," has not yet appeared. He is the only item left is this vision that relates to the appointed time of the end. He is the dreaded Antichrist. He will appear "out of nowhere" during the Great Tribulation. He does not rise out of a nation or a kingdom.

YSIC,
MidnightCry

 

[branchofthevine]

Greetings,

In Daniel 8, the two beasts represent empires, but the horns of the ram and of the goat represent kings.

The ram's two horns represent the kings of the Medes/Persians.
The goat's horn, which was broke when he was strong, is Alexander the Great.
The four horns represent four generals that eventually gained control of Alexander's empire. (Cassander, Lysimachus, Ptolemy, Seleucus.)

The horn power that arises in Daniel 8 is not attached to any beast. The Bible says this horn power is a king. (Daniel 8:23) Therefore, this horn power cannot be Rome. Rome is not even mentioned in this vision. God is consistent. The horns represent kings in this vision, not a kingdom.

Please show me where in Daniel 8 you find Rome. I don't see it. Also, where does it say this horn power is something that happened, as you say "way in the past."?

Read Daniel 8:16-19. "...the vision concerns the time of the end....I am going to tell you what will happen later in the time of wrath, because the vision concerns the appointed time of the end."

Gabriel twice emphasized the point that this vision concerns "the time of the end" or "the appointed time of the end." The word "appointed" means the time of the end was set or predetermined long ago. This is why Gabriel calls it "the appointed time of the end." God has set a date for the Great Tribulation to begin.

The ram and the goat in Daniel 8 are not end-time players. These world empires disappeared more than two thousand years ago. However, the horn power, or "the stern-faced king," has not yet appeared. He is the only item left is this vision that relates to the appointed time of the end. He is the dreaded Antichrist. He will appear "out of nowhere" during the Great Tribulation. He does not rise out of a nation or a kingdom.

YSIC,
MidnightCry

Hello, and greetings, though I guess where I'm from, we might say: "Hey! What's up?? How are you doing?" or something like that.

Well if you direct your attention to Daniel 8:8 through Daniel 8:12 specifically verse 9, you will notice the little horn growing out of the 4 horns, which is of course symbolic of a power coming out of the 4 powers. As history teaches us the 4 as mentioned above are they, the next power is Rome I do believe unless I'm missing some other world power to grow out of the 4 powers after Alexander. This little horn then grows to every direction and even to the host of heaven et cetera et cetera. This really is all symbolic, but it seems (logically enough) that this little horn is Rome. At least at the beginning of the Roman Republic/Empire (don't know which came first, not THAT big on history anymore)

Now Gabriel explains this vision (verse 18-16) and he (Gabriel) refers to it as "that the vision refers to the time of the end" but notice he doesn't say what is ending. You could say the end of the world, but that is putting something there that isn't written. An end of a chapter doesn't mean the end of a book, but really within context we now it as "the end" but the end of what exactly we don't know.

now let's go into verse 23 which says
"and in the latter time of their kingdom"

pause. Who's kingdom? Well from the verse above it seems that the latter time of the kingdom of the 4 powers.


but here is a thought and a question(thingy)

Did Christ bring about something knew? Did some sort of age end with Christ's coming? Didn't the Old Covenant end with the bringing of the New Covenant? Didn't the old age get replaced with the age that Christ brought which will end when He comes again?

Now, is this "latter time of wrath" of which you call it, is it the end time of age we live in, or could it possibly be referring to the time that ended because the Anointed One to save Humanity came to begin a new one?

Something to think about anyways.

 

[MidnightCry]

Hello, and greetings, though I guess where I'm from, we might say: "Hey! What's up?? How are you doing?" or something like that.

Well if you direct your attention to Daniel 8:8 through Daniel 8:12 specifically verse 9, you will notice the little horn growing out of the 4 horns, which is of course symbolic of a power coming out of the 4 powers. As history teaches us the 4 as mentioned above are they, the next power is Rome I do believe unless I'm missing some other world power to grow out of the 4 powers after Alexander. This little horn then grows to every direction and even to the host of heaven et cetera et cetera. This really is all symbolic, but it seems (logically enough) that this little horn is Rome. At least at the beginning of the Roman Republic/Empire (don't know which came first, not THAT big on history anymore)

Now Gabriel explains this vision (verse 18-16) and he (Gabriel) refers to it as "that the vision refers to the time of the end" but notice he doesn't say what is ending. You could say the end of the world, but that is putting something there that isn't written. An end of a chapter doesn't mean the end of a book, but really within context we now it as "the end" but the end of what exactly we don't know.

now let's go into verse 23 which says
"and in the latter time of their kingdom"

pause. Who's kingdom? Well from the verse above it seems that the latter time of the kingdom of the 4 powers.


but here is a thought and a question(thingy)

Did Christ bring about something knew? Did some sort of age end with Christ's coming? Didn't the Old Covenant end with the bringing of the New Covenant? Didn't the old age get replaced with the age that Christ brought which will end when He comes again?

Now, is this "latter time of wrath" of which you call it, is it the end time of age we live in, or could it possibly be referring to the time that ended because the Anointed One to save Humanity came to begin a new one?

Something to think about anyways.

You did not read my above post. The horn cannot be a kingdom. It cannot be Rome. The horn power in this vision is a king; not a kingdom.

It does not arise from ANY kingdom. It arises out of the four winds and comes out of the north. Divine judgment from God comes out of the north.
The horn power in this vision is a king, a destroyer, that God will send to destroy the nations and religions of man.

YSIC,
MidnightCry

 

[branchofthevine]

You did not read my above post. The horn cannot be a kingdom. It cannot be Rome. The horn power in this vision is a king; not a kingdom.

It does not arise from ANY kingdom. It arises out of the four winds and comes out of the north. Divine judgment from God comes out of the north.
The horn power in this vision is a king, a destroyer, that God will send to destroy the nations and religions of man.

YSIC,
MidnightCry

No, I read your post. I think I see what your saying, I just don't agree with it.

First of all nowhere does it say this King arises from the four corners of the winds. It says it comes up toward to the four corners of the winds which is a very different thing. (I'm reading NKJV)

Where are you reading Divine Judgement coming from the North? Where are you reading in the text that this horn is a destroyer God is sending to destroy the nations and religious men?

i see how he destroys, (verse 24) fearfully and the holy people (which at that time were Devout Jews) but where does it say he is sent by God to do so? God doesn't destroy holy people

 

[MidnightCry]

No, I read your post. I think I see what your saying, I just don't agree with it.

First of all nowhere does it say this King arises from the four corners of the winds. It says it comes up toward to the four corners of the winds which is a very different thing. (I'm reading NKJV)

Where are you reading Divine Judgement coming from the North? Where are you reading in the text that this horn is a destroyer God is sending to destroy the nations and religious men?

i see how he destroys, (verse 24) fearfully and the holy people (which at that time were Devout Jews) but where does it say he is sent by God to do so? God doesn't destroy holy people

Greetings branchofthevine,

Your name is very appropriate, by the way, because you definitely are green. In fact, you are so green, I don't even know where to start with you. I will try to explain, since you are asking good questions.

....came up toward the four winds of heaven. And out of one of them came a little horn which grew exceedingly great... (Daniel 8:8,9)

So what does the verse mean "out of one of them"? Does it refer to the four horns or does it refer to the four winds of heaven? To understand this phrase we have to examine the grammar. To what noun does the pronoun "them" refer? The Hebrew pronoun "them" (hem) is masculine, and the Hebrew word for "winds" (ruwach) can be masculine or feminine, but the Hebrew word for "horns" (qeren) is feminine. Therefore, a gender agreement (masculine "them" and masculine "winds") is possible if we say, "Out of one of the four winds..." But if we say, "Out of one of the four horns...," the gender in the grammar does not agree. So, the grammar suggests the horn power comes out of one of the four winds.

Daniel was standing on the banks of the Ulai River when he received this vision. From his point of reference, the horn power started our small, but became "exceedingly great" as it grew toward the south, east and "toward the beautiful land." Daniel refers to his homeland as "the beautiful land" without clearly saying "west." Maps of this region show Jerusalem to be due west of the province of Elam where Daniel was located. So, after looking at verse 9, we discover the horn power comes out of the north and grows toward the south, east and west.

Why is the direction of north important? The ancients believed that divine judgments came down from the north. Please look up the following texts and notice how the direction of north is associated with divine destruction:

Jeremiah 6:22,23
Jeremiah 25:9
Jeremiah 46:13,20,21
Jeremiah 50:2,3
Ezekiel 38:14-16

The direction of "north" became a significant direction when Lucifer began rebelling against Christ in heaven. Speaking about Lucifer's blasphemy, the Lord said, "For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into Heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. (Isaiah 14:13,14)

The phrase, "the sides of the north" refers to the location of God's throne.
God's throne was located on the "higher side" or the north side of Heaven's temple. (The Table of Showbread, which represented God's throne, was placed on the north side of the earthly temple.) This knowledge and God's consistent use of the direction of "north" in the Old Testament indicate that divine authority or judgment originates on the "sides of the north."

Why does God send a destroyer king to destroy the world's kingdoms and religions? That is a whole other post.

YSIC,
MidnightCry

 

[branchofthevine]

Daniel was standing on the banks of the Ulai River when he received this vision. From his point of reference, the horn power started our small, but became "exceedingly great" as it grew toward the south, east and "toward the beautiful land." Daniel refers to his homeland as "the beautiful land" without clearly saying "west." Maps of this region show Jerusalem to be due west of the province of Elam where Daniel was located. So, after looking at verse 9, we discover the horn power comes out of the north and grows toward the south, east and west.

Why is the direction of north important? The ancients believed that divine judgments came down from the north. Please look up the following texts and notice how the direction of north is associated with divine destruction:

Jeremiah 6:22,23
Jeremiah 25:9
Jeremiah 46:13,20,21
Jeremiah 50:2,3
Ezekiel 38:14-16

The direction of "north" became a significant direction when Lucifer began rebelling against Christ in heaven. Speaking about Lucifer's blasphemy, the Lord said, "For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into Heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. (Isaiah 14:13,14)

The phrase, "the sides of the north" refers to the location of God's throne.
God's throne was located on the "higher side" or the north side of Heaven's temple. (The Table of Showbread, which represented God's throne, was placed on the north side of the earthly temple.) This knowledge and God's consistent use of the direction of "north" in the Old Testament indicate that divine authority or judgment originates on the "sides of the north."

Why does God send a destroyer king to destroy the world's kingdoms and religions? That is a whole other post.

YSIC,
MidnightCry

Your name is very appropriate, by the way, because you definitely are green. In fact, you are so green, I don't even know where to start with you. I will try to explain, since you are asking good questions.

why thank you for the compliments. Although do you mean green like the green party of Canada? Or being environmentally friendly or being a newbie at this? lol

So what does the verse mean "out of one of them"? Does it refer to the four horns or does it refer to the four winds of heaven? To understand this phrase we have to examine the grammar. To what noun does the pronoun "them" refer? The Hebrew pronoun "them" (hem) is masculine, and the Hebrew word for "winds" (ruwach) can be masculine or feminine, but the Hebrew word for "horns" (qeren) is feminine. Therefore, a gender agreement (masculine "them" and masculine "winds") is possible if we say, "Out of one of the four winds..." But if we say, "Out of one of the four horns...," the gender in the grammar does not agree. So, the grammar suggests the horn power comes out of one of the four winds.

You obviously have some sort of understanding with Hebrew, which I do not, Greek? yeah I can do that, but I haven't taken Hebrew yet, so I don't know how it works
As I have it here (and this is a point of Discussion not so much to argue over) It reads "four notable ones came up toward the four winds. And out of one of them came a little horn...." (grammar in my bible is terrible btw). The focus seems to be on the notable ones and not so much on the winds. The 4 grow up towards each direction, and out of one of these 4 comes this little horn is how it seems to me, but then again I have been wrong about a whole lot over my time with Christ so it wouldn't surprise if I was.

Daniel was standing on the banks of the Ulai River when he received this vision. From his point of reference, the horn power started our small, but became "exceedingly great" as it grew toward the south, east and "toward the beautiful land." Daniel refers to his homeland as "the beautiful land" without clearly saying "west." Maps of this region show Jerusalem to be due west of the province of Elam where Daniel was located. So, after looking at verse 9, we discover the horn power comes out of the north and grows toward the south, east and west.

Why is the direction of north important? The ancients believed that divine judgments came down from the north. Please look up the following texts and notice how the direction of north is associated with divine destruction:

Jeremiah 6:22,23
Jeremiah 25:9
Jeremiah 46:13,20,21
Jeremiah 50:2,3
Ezekiel 38:14-16

The direction of "north" became a significant direction when Lucifer began rebelling against Christ in heaven. Speaking about Lucifer's blasphemy, the Lord said, "For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into Heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. (Isaiah 14:13,14)

The phrase, "the sides of the north" refers to the location of God's throne.
God's throne was located on the "higher side" or the north side of Heaven's temple. (The Table of Showbread, which represented God's throne, was placed on the north side of the earthly temple.) This knowledge and God's consistent use of the direction of "north" in the Old Testament indicate that divine authority or judgment originates on the "sides of the north."



YSIC,
MidnightCry

You make an interesting point, but something just doesn't settle within me about it.

Also, in Isaiah 14 these verses are directed at the King of Babylon. The part that mentions Lucifer seems to be calling the King of Babylon Lucifer because the whole proverb as it is called is directed at the King of Babylon. It seems unlikely that it switches gears to talk to Lucifer, but it seems that the King of Babylon is being called Lucifer or compared to him.

Could you explain how exactly the table of showbread represents God's throne? I don't understand that part.

I think I understand your logic and where you are coming from and the point you are making. I can see it as I read the text how you can arrive at that conclusion. I would believe it except there is something inside me that thinks this isn't exactly right, but that is an instinct and you can't discuss over an instinct.

I would love to hear you on

Why does God send a destroyer king to destroy the world's kingdoms and religions? That is a whole other post.

If you are willing to either pm or whatever, that would be cool.

Here is a question: Why does this passage scare you?

Like a verse that scares me is Matthew 6:23 (the second part)
"If the light that is within you is darkness, how deep that darkness really is"

but I don't see it in Daniel 8 at all.

 

[MidnightCry]

why thank you for the compliments. Although do you mean green like the green party of Canada? Or being environmentally friendly or being a newbie at this? lol


You obviously have some sort of understanding with Hebrew, which I do not, Greek? yeah I can do that, but I haven't taken Hebrew yet, so I don't know how it works
As I have it here (and this is a point of Discussion not so much to argue over) It reads "four notable ones came up toward the four winds. And out of one of them came a little horn...." (grammar in my bible is terrible btw). The focus seems to be on the notable ones and not so much on the winds. The 4 grow up towards each direction, and out of one of these 4 comes this little horn is how it seems to me, but then again I have been wrong about a whole lot over my time with Christ so it wouldn't surprise if I was.




You make an interesting point, but something just doesn't settle within me about it.

Also, in Isaiah 14 these verses are directed at the King of Babylon. The part that mentions Lucifer seems to be calling the King of Babylon Lucifer because the whole proverb as it is called is directed at the King of Babylon. It seems unlikely that it switches gears to talk to Lucifer, but it seems that the King of Babylon is being called Lucifer or compared to him.

Could you explain how exactly the table of showbread represents God's throne? I don't understand that part.

I think I understand your logic and where you are coming from and the point you are making. I can see it as I read the text how you can arrive at that conclusion. I would believe it except there is something inside me that thinks this isn't exactly right, but that is an instinct and you can't discuss over an instinct.

I would love to hear you on


If you are willing to either pm or whatever, that would be cool.

Here is a question: Why does this passage scare you?

Like a verse that scares me is Matthew 6:23 (the second part)
"If the light that is within you is darkness, how deep that darkness really is"

but I don't see it in Daniel 8 at all.

Greetings branchofthe vine,

Sorry I am so late getting back to you. Have been working alot.

Here is an article I found on the internet about the Table of Showbread. I think it will help you.


What does the table of shewbread represent? The earthly sanctuary served "unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of Elohim when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed thee in the mount." Hebrews 8:5. In the Torah the wording is better, "look that thou make them after the pattern, which thou wast caused to see in the mount." (in vision) Exodus 25:40 margin

The table of shewbread was made of wood and overlaid with gold. Just as YAHSHUA had human nature, yet He was a partaker of the divine nature, in other words, He was overlaid with divinity. The table was located on the north side of the first apartment (Ex 40:22). The Psalmist declared that Mt. Zion in heaven is "on the sides of the north" along with "the city of our Elohim." Psalm 48:1,2

This is the same Mount Zion that John saw in vision, where he beheld the 144,000; and crowns of gold on their foreheads, with the inscription "Holiness to YAHUWAH." Exodus 28:36. John sees them "before the throne of Elohim." Revelation 14:3,5

This is the place that Lucifer had planned to exalt his throne above the stars (angels) of Elohim, "upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north." Isaiah 14:13

The table of shewbread had two crowns on it (Ex 25: 24,25), which show a duel Kingship. YAHUSHUA was a priest upon his throne, a priest and a king. "YAHUWAH saith unto my Master, Sit Thou at My right hand, until I make mine enemies Thy footstool", and further "YAHUWAH hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest forever after the order of Melchizedek." Psalm 110:1,4

This shows that YAHUSHUA was not himself Melchizek, or He could not be after his order. The unique thing about Melchizedek, is that he was "a priest of El Elyon." But he was also "king of Salem." Genesis 14:18. Melchizedek was a priest and a king. YAHUSHUA when returning to heaven after His death, and resurrection sat down at the right hand of Eloah, and was a priest upon His throne (Zechariah 6:13).

The two stacks (Lev. 24:6) of shewbread also represent the Father and the Son, YAHUSHUA said, "I am the bread of life." John 6:35,48

(Taken from: The Table of Shewbread)

Another text that may help you is found in Job. Elihu said, "Be assured that my words are not false; one perfect in knowledge is with you...Out of the north he comes in golden splendor; God comes in awesome majesty."
(Job 36:4; 37:22) In the context of Job 36 and 37, the sovereign authority and awesome wisdom of God comes out of the north.

I will continue this shortly.

YSIC,
MidnightCry

 

[MidnightCry]

Why does God send a destroyer?

God is consistent. He is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. He changes not. Whenever the nation of Israel became full of rebellion, sin, and idolatry, God sent another nation (a destroyer king) to rule over them and take them into bondage. After a certain amount of time(when that nation became full of evil), God would relent and return Israel to her land to rebuild and to represent Him again.

We can see this pattern in the Old Testament and when the world empires are explained in Daniel 2. He sent armies to destroy the Caananites, the Israelites, the Egyptians, the Babylonians, the Medes and Persians, the Grecians, and the Romans. When nations go beyond the point of redemption, God raises up a destroyer king. The reason God places the Antichrist in the end time story is because He sets up kings and takes them down with other kings. God will send the stern-faced king of Daniel 8 (the Antichrist) to destroy much of the world.

The horn power in Daniel 8 does not arise from a nation on Earth. This king will come out of the north during the appointed time of the end. The Antichrist will arrive on a divine mission of destruction. God will send the stern-faced king to rule over the wicked. God will send him because the wicked rejected His truth and rebelled against His generous offer of salvation. Paul talked about this, "...They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness." (2Thessalonians 2:10-12)

I hope you can see this by reading Daniel 8 and Daniel 9. Daniel 9 gives more information and descriptions of the "stern-faced king."

YSIC,
MidnightCry

 

[MidnightCry]

The sixth and last kingdom of man is represented by the toes. The ten toes represent a brief reign of ten kings. The devil himself will physically appear on Earth pretending to be God. After a successful conquest to take control of Earth, the Antichrist will divide the world into ten sectors, and he will appoint ten kings to rule over these ten sectors. (Revelation 17:12-14)

During the days of these kings, the Rock will come out of Heaven and destroy all of the kingdoms of men. This Rock is Jesus Christ, the Rock of Ages. At the appointed time, Jesus will annihilate the wicked on Earth and establish the seventh and final world empire. His kingdom will never end. The number seven is God's signature. God's kingdom of righteousness will bear His likeness and He will only establish His kingdom on Earth after He has destroyed the kingdoms of men.

"In the time of those kings, the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed, nor will it be left to another people. It will crush all those kingdoms and bring them to an end, but it will itself endure forever." (Daniel 2:44)

Again, we see that God is consistent. Jesus is not only our Savior when He comes, He is also a destroyer. He will destroy the evil kingdom of Lucifer and all the wicked that refused to accept Him as Lord.

YSIC,
MidnightCry