U believe, u don't or u believe with doubts. What is this thing called faith that u can choose. I want to trust in (believe) that my daughter who is eight can walk to daycare across the street and be fine but that is to great a risk my heart won't let me. I want to believe in God to ecscape hell but the fear of no heaven cripples that trust ( believe ) how do I have any control in my faith. I cannot fully rid my mind and heart of doubt it is impossible.
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This thing called faith
- Thread starter raven1
- Start date
SoldierOfSoul
Senior Veteran
Faith is not perfect, but it is sure in who it believes in. Christians have faith in God because of what He has done and because of who He is. We have faith because God is holy and cannot lie and He in all things always chooses right, that He alone can Judge perfectly.
We have faith in Jesus Christ, that He did not die for nothing, but that He died to save us from eternal separation from His presence. Faith is not dependent on what we believe to be true at the time, but on what is true regardless about how we feel on the matter.
God is real, He is holy and He died for us whether we believe it or not, but we believe God over our own thoughts and fears and trust that He is who He says He is because truth is found only in Him.
"Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding." (Proverbs 3:5)
Raven, you have OCD, given enough thought, your mind will doubt everything, try and realize what is true regardless of your obsessions. Try and have faith above your OCD, trust that God is real and true and your OCD is the one who is lying.
"Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free." (John 8:32)
We have faith in Jesus Christ, that He did not die for nothing, but that He died to save us from eternal separation from His presence. Faith is not dependent on what we believe to be true at the time, but on what is true regardless about how we feel on the matter.
God is real, He is holy and He died for us whether we believe it or not, but we believe God over our own thoughts and fears and trust that He is who He says He is because truth is found only in Him.
"Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding." (Proverbs 3:5)
Raven, you have OCD, given enough thought, your mind will doubt everything, try and realize what is true regardless of your obsessions. Try and have faith above your OCD, trust that God is real and true and your OCD is the one who is lying.
"Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free." (John 8:32)
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That's the thing though like the analogy. I could say i believe(have faith) my daughter can walk across the street safely but in my hearts of hearts I would be terrified to let her I don't really have they faith in her. I want to believe there is a God and a heaven but I am doubtful because I can't see it and afraid it is not there how can u just have faith I can't pretend anymore than I can pretend to be ok with my daughter walking across the street but I want to. How is it under my control.
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woodpecker
Senior Member
raven1, are you involved in Christian counseling, bible study, and church?
All your post my dear, are focused on all the fears of life, (which is OCD I know), start carrying note cards with you that remind you of how much God loves you.
God knows you are sick with this illness of compulsive thinking, God knows your heart, He know how much you want to believe,...He knows you have the faith of a mustard seed, and that is enough for God.
Focus on your blessings,...also, know bad things will happen and all the worry in the world will not stop them,...BUT God promises to be with you through all of life's sorrows and struggles.
All your post my dear, are focused on all the fears of life, (which is OCD I know), start carrying note cards with you that remind you of how much God loves you.
God knows you are sick with this illness of compulsive thinking, God knows your heart, He know how much you want to believe,...He knows you have the faith of a mustard seed, and that is enough for God.
Focus on your blessings,...also, know bad things will happen and all the worry in the world will not stop them,...BUT God promises to be with you through all of life's sorrows and struggles.
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It's possible that not letting your daughter cross the street is an OCD symptom, so don't get too hung up on the following analogy.
If you were to let your daughter cross the street, even if you are absolutely terrified and doubtful as she does, you still showed your faith by letting her go. My point is that the same thing can be said about faith in God. You're not supposed to feel your faith, you're supposed to live it.
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Thats my point before I believed wholeheartedly I prayed worshiped etc. I just had faith I didn't need concrete evidence God exists and i had no control over the fact i believed i jst did now I pray worship etc because I believe halfway I had no control my faith went away yes I go through the actions but I can't fool God.
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AlsO found out my counselor fell through today she is ppo not HMO I will have to wait till nov if I see her.
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Sorry your therapist fell through. Certainly there has to be another OCD therapist out there.
As for the faith thing, I think you're clinging too much on to the "feeling" aspect of it. Because you have the doubts and don't feel as convinced about your belief as before, you think that you're faking your faith.
You say that you worship because you only "half believe." You still do it don't you? Even if it's only "halfway," as you say, you still have that belief. Plus, God knows what you're going through, and I'm sure that you've actually prayed to Him about your struggles. It's not like you're deliberately trying to trick God here. You're just trying to figure things out.
I don't think you're giving your belief/faith enough credit here.
As for the faith thing, I think you're clinging too much on to the "feeling" aspect of it. Because you have the doubts and don't feel as convinced about your belief as before, you think that you're faking your faith.
You say that you worship because you only "half believe." You still do it don't you? Even if it's only "halfway," as you say, you still have that belief. Plus, God knows what you're going through, and I'm sure that you've actually prayed to Him about your struggles. It's not like you're deliberately trying to trick God here. You're just trying to figure things out.
I don't think you're giving your belief/faith enough credit here.
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Just starting to think one day u believe the next u doubt maybe calvinists are right and we are predestined. That is so sad.
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woodpecker
Senior Member
what is so sad is that you will not surrender to God, you make the choice. The Calvinist theology on predestination is messed up, and is not the God I know, "for God so loved the WORLD, he gave His only begotten son" to die for YOU.
Stop fighting with God, and Satan, surrender it all to God. You are like Jacob wrestling with God, let God win, be still and know He is God.
Stop fighting with God, and Satan, surrender it all to God. You are like Jacob wrestling with God, let God win, be still and know He is God.
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What do u mean I won't surrender to God. I want to believe but I doubt. God has the control to give me my faith I have no control over the fact it has been splintered.
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God might predestine, but the main indicator that He has predestined someone is that they believe in Him and ask Him to forgive them for their sins. From what I understand, Calvinists (or at least the most extreme Calvinists) take the verses about predestination and say that you can ask God for forgiveness but still not be sure if you're saved until you die.
I do not think that that's Biblical. Once you have asked Christ into your life, you're good.
I do not think that that's Biblical. Once you have asked Christ into your life, you're good.
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woodpecker
Senior Member
not sure what you mean God has to give you the faith? The Holy Spirit has revealed the truth to you, now it is up to you to respond...we all have some doubt, but we still surrender to Jesus, that is faith, having hope in something we can not see.
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Woodpecker, there's more than just questions of theology in play here. What Raven describes is very similar to OCD symptoms that I fought through when my OCD was the worst. I think that that is playing a significant role in raven's struggles.
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woodpecker
Senior Member
I agree, I suffer with the same condition...everyday I doubt...but I surrender, everyday no matter what my stupid ocd is telling me...I will believe Jesus not my stupid thoughts.
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That is what I don't understand I/ we doubt God exists but we still hang on to him. He knows we are just acting as if. Isn't he displeased? Why do we have to have doubt OCD doubt, regular doubt etc. Why do we have to have regular doubt that will send us to hell if we are not predestined. I did not choose my regular doubt or OCD doubt whatever it is. I don't want to think of God like that either but I do not know how he will respond.
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I don't want to think God is wrathful and going to punish me if my doubt is not OCD but I cannot know for sure. I just wouldn't understand because OCD doubt or not I did not ask for this. I did not ask to doubt.
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You act as if doubting, yet clinging on to God is always a case of hypocrisy. It is not.
In fact, that's exactly what we're supposed to do when we have doubts, we cling on to Him.
This is a very different thing from being someone who grew up a Christian, and walked down the isle during church without understanding what they were doing because their parents just pressured them into doing it. Such a person might pretend in church to be all Christian-like so that they fit in with everyone else in church, but they didn't understand what they were doing when they asked for forgiveness.
You understand the Gospel, and are trying to rid yourself of doubt while continuing in the faith you've had since before your OCD flared up.
In fact, that's exactly what we're supposed to do when we have doubts, we cling on to Him.
This is a very different thing from being someone who grew up a Christian, and walked down the isle during church without understanding what they were doing because their parents just pressured them into doing it. Such a person might pretend in church to be all Christian-like so that they fit in with everyone else in church, but they didn't understand what they were doing when they asked for forgiveness.
You understand the Gospel, and are trying to rid yourself of doubt while continuing in the faith you've had since before your OCD flared up.
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SoldierOfSoul
Senior Veteran
Calvinists are right, the thing is though, Armenians are right too. Calvinists are right in the sense that God has predestined certain people to salvation, He has done this because He is God and because He is God He knows the future, to say God does not know who will be saved is to say He is not God.
Armenians are right in the sense that whosoever will may come, because Christ said "whoever comes to me I will in no way cast out." Just because God knows who will be saved does not mean that all who come to Him will not be saved. It means the opposite, if you want to come to Christ you can be sure you HAVE been called by Him. This verse explains it all:
"All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away." (John 6:37)
The fact that you doubt does not reveal you have not been saved, it only reveals you are human and a human with a disorder...that needs treatment. Faith will return raven, God has not forsaken you, He has promised He never will:
"The LORD himself goes before you and will be with you; he will never leave you nor forsake you. Do not be afraid; do not be discouraged." (Deuteronomy 31:8)
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gracealone
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Yes! Good stuff Owie. The more we try to figure out if we have faith the less we feel it. Lewis said this is like taking your eyes out of your head to check whether you can see with them or not. If you could do that you wouldn't be able to see because you would be trying to use them in the wrong way. Our faith is demonstrated by our choice to follow Christ and walk in obedience to His Word. OCD can never rob us of this no matter how frightened it makes us feel.
Mitzi
Mitzi
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