this made me think

[newlite]

http://bible-truths.com/lake9.html

it says that LUCIFER isnt really the devil. just a translation error. any truth to it?

and if there is, who can saw theres not more errors?

 

[bleechers]

http://bible-truths.com/lake9.html

it says that LUCIFER isnt really the devil. just a translation error. any truth to it?

and if there is, who can saw theres not more errors?

I understand what he's arguing (re: the Hebrew word translated "Lucifer") but I have no idea, why he believes it' the "worst heresy in Christendom" etc. His decision to use the English dictionary to build much of his argument is also puzzling.

It seems as thought his beef is centered around "free will"... which always puzzles me... if it's God will that someone believes that Lucifer is Satan, why does this guy try to convince him otherwise...?

 

[newlite]

but what if its not? what if its all a mistake? could there be more?

 

[ZiSunka]

Anyone who says they are the only ones who know the truth is in fact clueless. L. Ray Smith is one of those people. Although he constantly says that he quotes from a lot of sources, he only quotes tiny snippets that seem on first glance and out of context to agree with his beliefs. He states that God is the creator of both good and evil. If that isn't cultic, I can't imagine what is! Good and evil aren't even created things, they are actions WE make, with good motives or evil motives, good consequences or evil consequences. Evil isn't a thing, it is a choice that humans make each time they do anything. Did God create immorality? Did God create murder? Did God create child abuse? Those are all evil actions, is God the author of those?? How can He condemn what He forced into the world? Yet He condemns immorality, murder and child abuse. That would mean that God condemns Himself for creating evil in the first place! We obtained a knowledge of Good and Evil when Adam and Eve tasted the fruit of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. Note that God did not give Adam and Eve evil or evil natures, only an awareness of good and evil.

L Ray Smith is just one mor guy who wants to be top dog in the God heap, but is showing St Paul to be correct when he said, "by claining to be wise, some showed themselves to be fools."

 

[Iollain]

"Lucifer" is the Latin term originally used by the Romans to refer to the planet Venus when that planet was west of the sun and hence rose before the sun in the morning, thereby being the morning star.
The same planet was called Hesperus, Cesperugo, Vesper, Noctifer, or Nocturnus, when it appeared in the heavens after sunset. Although 19th and 20th century occultists would equate other goddesses such as Astarte, Ashtoreth, Lilith, Isis, Cemeramis, Mari, and Ishtar with Venus, links between the cultures and attributes represented are not historically clear. Lucifer as a personification is called a son of Astraeus and Aurora or Eos, of Cephalus and Aurora, or of Atlas. He is called the father of Ceyx, Daedalion, and of the Hesperides. Lucifer is also a surname of several goddesses of light, such as Artemis, Aurora, and Hecate. 1.
The word appears to have entered the religious lexicon when the Hebrew expression in Isaiah 14:12, "HeYLeL BeN-ShaCHaR." (meaning "bright son of the morning/dawn," "bright [and] morning star," "glowing morning star," or "shining one, son of the dawn.")2. was translated to "Phosphorus" (the Greek word for Venus as the morning star) in the Septuagint, and then translated into "Lucifer" in the Vulgate (from the Greek Septuagint). Isaiah 14, taken as a whole, is a parable, or prophecy of denunciation against the Kings of Babylon, specifically Tiglath-pileser III 3 In verse 12, the prophet characterizes the arrogance of Tiglath-pileser III as if the king had thought himself fit to appear in the sky as the morning star, but has fallen to earth, being brought low by the vengeance of the Lord against those who would exalt themselves and persecute the Lord's people (i.e., the Israelites).
Origenes Adamantius (185 CE - 254 CE), an important Christian scholar of the early Greek Church, and Augustine of Canterbury (d. May 26 604/605 CE), founder of the Christian Church in southern England, both interpreted the use of the term Lucifer as a reference to the Devil.
The name Lucifer was applied to Satan by St. Jerome and later to the demon of sinful pride by Milton in Paradise Lost.

Jesus is the Morning Star, satan is the false morning star.

 

[Iollain]

I understand what he's arguing (re: the Hebrew word translated "Lucifer") but I have no idea, why he believes it' the "worst heresy in Christendom" etc. His decision to use the English dictionary to build much of his argument is also puzzling.

It seems as thought his beef is centered around "free will"... which always puzzles me... if it's God will that someone believes that Lucifer is Satan, why does this guy try to convince him otherwise...?

I imagine he thinks it is the worst heresy in Christendom because lucifer originally was a name for the morning star(as in the one in the sky), and Jesus is the bright and Morning Star...{Revelation 22:16
I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.}
So when St. Jerome made the mistake of putting Lucifer here...{Isaiah 14:12
How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! }...which is supposed to be talking about satan, it is not really a mistake because a lot of people will be fooled in the last days and think that evil is light. The real Morning Star (Jesus) is the real LIght. Do you see how this 'mistake' fits into the bible? Jesus is the One who brought Light and will again, as in the morning star bringing in the light of the sun. Satan is the false morning star. Isaiah 14:12 is mocking satan really, so i don't think it is a mistake.

 

[newlite]

so Jesus is the morning star, satan is the fake morning star. but what about lucifer? is he really an angel who tried to stand against god and was kicked out of heaven like we have always been told? is lucifer real?

 

[Iollain]

so Jesus is the morning star, satan is the fake morning star. but what about lucifer? is he really an angel who tried to stand against god and was kicked out of heaven like we have always been told? is lucifer real?

The Lucifer in the bible is a referance to Satan (and the king of Babylon) YOu'll have to get someone else to explain this to you about how Satan and the king of Babylon are the same. However, the word Lucifer originally means morning star.

Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! [how] art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

Isa 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

Isa 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

Isa 14:15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

The writer is asking how such a powerful being, who claimed he was going to do this and that,can be brought down. The verse is said in a mocking way,imo.

 

[Iollain]

When you hear Lucifer today, they are probably talking about satan.