This line cannot be logically true...

[Mr. Pedantic]

But I thought that babies were supposed to have an innate knowledge of god...or Allah, as the case may be. Isn't that what a few people have tried to argue on these very forums?

 

[Montalban]

But I thought that babies were supposed to have an innate knowledge of god...or Allah, as the case may be. Isn't that what a few people have tried to argue on these very forums?

I got told this twice by two different Moslems - a proof of Islam is that we live within uttering the word 'al-Lah' - he said that our first breath we go 'ah' and as we expire we go 'lah', thus we say the parts of the word al-lah at the begining and end of our lives

 

[Mr. Pedantic]

I got told this twice by two different Moslems - a proof of Islam is that we live within uttering the word 'al-Lah' - he said that our first breath we go 'ah' and as we expire we go 'lah', thus we say the parts of the word al-lah at the begining and end of our lives

I can't find the posts in question at the moment, but that is not quite what I meant.

 

[Montalban]

I can't find the posts in question at the moment, but that is not quite what I meant.

I've seen info that babies are hard-wired or pre-wired for language

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

I got told this twice by two different Moslems - a proof of Islam is that we live within uttering the word 'al-Lah' - he said that our first breath we go 'ah' and as we expire we go 'lah', thus we say the parts of the word al-lah at the begining and end of our lives

Hilarious!

Of course, there was also a thread (quite recently) where a Christian (SanFrank? razeontherock?) argued that the sound you make while breathing is actually YHVH.

 

[Montalban]

Hilarious!

I found a site...

"The first sound a living baby makes when it comes into the world is a cry "Aaa", it is the easiest sound to make, all it takes is opening the mouth, breathing out and using the vocal cords. Since this is the easiest sound to make, the "A" is, i think, the first letter pronounced by a human being because of it's easy and basic characteristics, all one has to do is open the mouth, breath out and use the vocal cords. Also a point that affirms this is that the letter "A" is the first letter in most, if not all Alphabets. The sound "LL" is made when you push your tongue upwards in your mouth, breath out and use your vocal cords. Allaah as we call Him is above everything and everyone, so upward, up. The "A" is the first letter and the "H" is the last letter, because when one is using his vocal cords the lungs are running out of air, and when the lungs are nearly depleted(empty) one can hear the "hhh" sound. When you witness someone dieing you usually can hear "the last breath" the "hhh" sound. It is therefor the last letter. Allah is The First and The Last, above everything and everyone. And His name "Allah", i believe, is the oldest name used for Him by mankind, and the most logical, if one understands."
Science & Technology: God vs. Allah (it’s in the name)


There's further theory I can't make heads nor tails of such as this...
"The beginning of our life
A newborn can not talk; but surely can listen… from both ears. So, his right ear listens to Azan and the left Iqamah.
In Azan and Iqamah, the first and the last words are الله .
If the infact is truly given Islamic environment, the word that he/she will be listening most is Allah. Naturally then his/her first spoken word will be الله ."
\'Allah\'s Name - Interesting facts (Dr. Abdul Aziz Abdul Raheem

This is truly disturbing...
We know that the state we die in is the state we will be resurrected in for the Hereafter.
You will be resurrected in the state you died… « Cool Guy Muslim’s Blog

What if you died in immense pain?

Of course, there was also a thread (quite recently) where a Christian (SanFrank? razeontherock?) argued that the sound you make while breathing is actually YHVH.

I don't offer argument for or against them on something I've not seen them claim.

 

[Mr. Pedantic]

I've seen info that babies are hard-wired or pre-wired for language

Depending on what you mean, it's not quite true. And not what I meant, either.

I found a site...

"The first sound a living baby makes when it comes into the world is a cry "Aaa", it is the easiest sound to make, all it takes is opening the mouth, breathing out and using the vocal cords. Since this is the easiest sound to make, the "A" is, i think, the first letter pronounced by a human being because of it's easy and basic characteristics, all one has to do is open the mouth, breath out and use the vocal cords. Also a point that affirms this is that the letter "A" is the first letter in most, if not all Alphabets. The sound "LL" is made when you push your tongue upwards in your mouth, breath out and use your vocal cords. Allaah as we call Him is above everything and everyone, so upward, up. The "A" is the first letter and the "H" is the last letter, because when one is using his vocal cords the lungs are running out of air, and when the lungs are nearly depleted(empty) one can hear the "hhh" sound. When you witness someone dieing you usually can hear "the last breath" the "hhh" sound. It is therefor the last letter. Allah is The First and The Last, above everything and everyone. And His name "Allah", i believe, is the oldest name used for Him by mankind, and the most logical, if one understands."
Science & Technology: God vs. Allah (it’s in the name)


There's further theory I can't make heads nor tails of such as this...
"The beginning of our life
A newborn can not talk; but surely can listen… from both ears. So, his right ear listens to Azan and the left Iqamah.
In Azan and Iqamah, the first and the last words are الله .
If the infact is truly given Islamic environment, the word that he/she will be listening most is Allah. Naturally then his/her first spoken word will be الله ."
\'Allah\'s Name - Interesting facts (Dr. Abdul Aziz Abdul Raheem

This is truly disturbing...
We know that the state we die in is the state we will be resurrected in for the Hereafter.
You will be resurrected in the state you died… « Cool Guy Muslim’s Blog

What if you died in immense pain?


I don't offer argument for or against them on something I've not seen them claim.

This is a completely useless post-hoc rationalization.

 

[razeontherock]

I don't offer argument for or against them on something I've not seen them claim.

Well seeing what i say doesn't stop Jane from distorting what's been said

 

[Rascaduanok]

But I thought that babies were supposed to have an innate knowledge of god...or Allah, as the case may be. Isn't that what a few people have tried to argue on these very forums?

It’s the usual thing people spout, but it is the religious equivalent of urban legends. Let us go to the book of muslims, the qur’an, to see what it says on this subject:

And Allah has extracted you from the wombs of your mothers not knowing a thing, and He made for you hearing and vision and intellect that perhaps you would be grateful.​

So allah has, according to 16:78, caused babies to come from the womb without any knowledge. So… in other words, the qur’an states that babies are born atheists, not muslim.​

There's further theory I can't make heads nor tails of such as this...
"The beginning of our life
A newborn can not talk; but surely can listen… from both ears. So, his right ear listens to Azan and the left Iqamah.
In Azan and Iqamah, the first and the last words are الله .
If the infact is truly given Islamic environment, the word that he/she will be listening most is Allah. Naturally then his/her first spoken word will be الله ."

You know how Christians baptise babies? Well, muslims have a thing where they recite a certain prayer as well as the adhaan into a baby’s ear. That’s what that quote is talking about.

 

[razeontherock]

So allah has, according to 16:78, caused babies to come from the womb without any knowledge. So… in other words, the qur’an states that babies are born atheists, not muslim.

While I appreciate you sharing your knowledge of the Koran, I cannot accept your interpretation of this as God saying babies are born atheists, nor would agnostic fit. That is simply shoehorning the term(s) (Neither are babies born religious, nor believers)

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

Well seeing what i say doesn't stop Jane from distorting what's been said

Can you pinpoint the thread? I'd like to quote you and SanFrank (was it him?) verbatim on this.
I think you were the one who said that Moses stood in front of Pharaoh and just breathed loudly when he was asked about the name of his god.

And the other participant insisted quite adamantly that "YHVH" is in fact the sound people make when they breathe.

No distortion there. Just you folks talking nonsense.

 

[razeontherock]

Can you pinpoint the thread? I'd like to quote you and SanFrank (was it him?) verbatim on this.
I think you were the one who said that Moses stood in front of Pharaoh and just breathed loudly when he was asked about the name of his god.

And the other participant insisted quite adamantly that "YHVH" is in fact the sound people make when they breathe.

No distortion there. Just you folks talking nonsense.

I didn't say anything as factual, i said I believe (not I think, or I know) that when Pharaoh demanded Moses tell him who sent him, what Pharaoh heard in response may well have been merely the sound of breathing. I also put this in context that it would be an act of utter defiance, bordering on the suicidal. And what I may not have mentioned is this was part of the process of the very difficult to grasp statement that "the Lord hardened Pharaoh's heart."

So what we have is a very complex concept presented, which you reduced to a simplistic folly. In other words, distortion. No worries, I'm used to it

Now let's put this in context: tell me that Pharaoh, sitting on his throne, in his own temple, where he was worshipped as god and accepted such, being approached by a defiant Moses who entered as the lowliest lowlife of Egyptian society and made demands - tell me Pharaoh wasn't spooked! And further, Pharaoh who disbelieved, was still led by God to believe; which is in line with the values presented by our OP, and indeed agrees with my own sense of Justice.

 

[Montalban]

It’s the usual thing people spout

It's a Moslem belief that all are born Moslem, and some are made "Christian", or "Jew", or "Atheist".

"The Prophet Muhammad said, "No babe is born but upon Fitra (as a Muslim). It is his parents who make him a Jew or a Christian or a Polytheist." (Sahih Muslim, Book 033, Number 6426)

Islam is the religion of all Prophets, Adam to Muhammad. Children are not born out of any sin, original, inherited or derived. They are born on the religion of their nature, i.e., Islam."
Every Child is Born Muslim

Here's another
Believe It or Not: You were Born Muslim!
http://www.missionislam.com/discover/believeitornot.htm

Some interpret this based on the concept all are born innocent, therefore knowing nothing wouldn't be a hamper to being Moslem - which is quite ironic given that Islam rests on being ignorant

You know how Christians baptise babies? Well, muslims have a thing where they recite a certain prayer as well as the adhaan into a baby’s ear. That’s what that quote is talking about.

How is talking in one ear, and out the other the same?

 

[SanFrank]

It’s the usual thing people spout, but it is the religious equivalent of urban legends. Let us go to the book of muslims, the qur’an, to see what it says on this subject:

You know how Christians baptise babies? Well, muslims have a thing where they recite a certain prayer as well as the adhaan into a baby’s ear. That’s what that quote is talking about.

Your background may include islam. However, how is it that satan touches every baby the moment it is born. To me this activity of satan's leads to a baby's first words in the muslim world.

Unfortunately, this hadith is unmistakable. Accordingly, a baby's very first words at the time of birth, which people say is "a - lah," are induced by satan! The cry is the sound of "a-lah".

Bukhari, Book 55, Hadith 641: Narrated Said bin Al-Musaiyab: Abu Huraira said, "I heard Allah's Apostle saying, 'There is none born among the off-spring of Adam, but satan touches it. A child therefore, cries loudly at the time of birth because of the touch of satan, except Mary and her child." Then Abu Huraira recited: "And I seek refuge with You for her and for her offspring from the outcast satan"
​

 

[SanFrank]

Hilarious!

Of course, there was also a thread (quite recently) where a Christian (SanFrank? razeontherock?) argued that the sound you make while breathing is actually YHVH.

I find it hilarious how the enemy constantly mimicks the godly. I mean, satan always tries to copy what G*d does.

I find the name of G*d in every breath I take. And this is fitting since we carry the breath of life from G*d. Its in the Talmud.

 

[razeontherock]

I find the name of G*d in every breath I take. And this is fitting since we carry the breath of life from G*d. Its in the Talmud.

I had no idea! More independent confirmation. (Waits to see how Jane will spin this)

 

[Montalban]

Maxiomos the Confessor said we should pray as often as we breathe

 

[Islam_mulia]

إِنَّ الَّذِينَ لَا يُؤْمِنُونَ بِآيَاتِ اللَّهِ لَا يَهْدِيهِمُ اللَّهُ وَلَهُمْ عَذَابٌ أَلِيمٌ [FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica]{104}[/FONT]
[SIZE=-1][Shakir 16:104] (As for) those who do not believe in Allah's communications, surely Allah will not guide them, and they shall have a painful punishment.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]Everyone at one point does not believe in God's communications, even if was just when your a kid (and didn't know about religion)...[/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]If God won't guide them...then how will they ever believe? [/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]Also, this makes punishment not only for all those whom disbelieve in Islam, but all those whom didn't believe in it...what about those whom didn't hear the message...[/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]Anyways I think I'm at about 36 Issues with Quran now, lost count again...[/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]But I think I might end up around 50...the more I think about the book with no longer the bias that makes me want to think everything it says makes sense and must be true, because you know, there is nothing like it! the more I see errors and problems...[/SIZE]

What is the CONTEXT of the verse?

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

I had no idea! More independent confirmation. (Waits to see how Jane will spin this)

What spin? He does claim that the sound of his breathing is actually "YHVH".
Which, in itself, is just as absurd as claiming that babies say "Allah".

But thanks for betraying the blatant double standard at the heart of virtually all Christian criticism of Islam.

Of course it's good to challenge beliefs that are absurd or even destructive, but again, Matthew 7 comes to mind. I can't stand hypocrites who'll gladly find fault with others but totally refuse to examine the very same faults within their own community.

 

[Montalban]

What spin? He does claim that the sound of his breathing is actually "YHVH"..

He may have meant that, but that's not how I read it.

To me it's like saying "I see God in every creature" or "I see God's handiwork in nature" - to have God on every breath seems to me like that. Like in the song "Every breath you take" isn't about someone watching a person breathe 24/7

I don't see it that he is saying each breath is literally sounding like "Yaweh", but he may have meant it like that.

Although in saying that I have found people who believe it's literally so...
http://www.revelife.com/697056947/h...th-every-breath-יהוה/

Anyway, I'll leave it up to him to explain further if that's what he means.