This is Why Homosexuality is Wrong. . .

[chaz345]

If I do it you may accuse me all you wish. But please notice a difference between specific people and all Christians.

Most of the demeaning and insulting commnents, often intelligence or rationality based, are group directed not individual directed.

 

[Ohioprof]

That is a lie. Common sense says so.

You are accusing me of lying about my own life? That seems peculiar, since you don't know me.

I repeat that I have been a lesbian all my life, and I have never had encounters with pornography. I am 52 years old. Pornography has never interested me. I doubt that most women are interested in pornography.

You can believe that I am lying if you want to, but I am telling the truth. And it's my life, not yours. I know more about my life than you do.

 

[Ohioprof]

Thank you for making that point. I have a cousin who is gay, but do I hate him? Absolutely not! Do I hate his sinful lifestyle? Absolutely! There's a difference.

Not much of a difference. Who are you to judge someone else's life, anyway?

 

[Ohioprof]

Same thing can be said about one who instantly jumps to accusations of homophobia or hate.

Sometimes people really are being homophobic, and sometimes people really are being hateful.

 

[Ohioprof]

Most of the demeaning and insulting commnents, often intelligence or rationality based, are group directed not individual directed.

That is true of such comments aimed at gay people. They are usually aimed at groups, but they insult individuals.

 

[Ohioprof]

Maybe, maybe not. But I am pretty sure He'd be annoyed at how quick many are to throw out the hate card. Believing that homosexuality is wrong , and saying so, is not now, nor will it ever be the same as hating the person.

Sometimes it is hating the person, disguised as "hating the sin." Not always, but sometimes.

 

[chaz345]

Sometimes people really are being homophobic, and sometimes people really are being hateful.

I never said otherwise. My point though is that very often accusations of hate and homophobia come out when there is nothing to suggest that they are warranted other than a simple statement that the person believes homosexuality to be wrong.

 

[chaz345]

Sometimes it is hating the person, disguised as "hating the sin." Not always, but sometimes.

Of course this is true. But nearly always, a statement that is directed at the sin is labeled as hating the person. It happens almost every time someone says that homosexuality is wrong.

 

[chaz345]

That is true of such comments aimed at gay people. They are usually aimed at groups, but they insult individuals.

I think you missed the point. Phred was talking about the difference between group directed and individual directed comments. I think his point was that most of the insulting and demeaning comments from atheists directed at Christians here were individual directed and additionally were specificly in response to a given statement.

I was basically disagreeing, saying that most of the ones that I had seen were much more general and sweeping.

 

[WatersMoon110]

I see what you mean and appolgize for the misinterpretation. Given the context of the conversation, and the regularity with which the hate card is tossed out, you can understand my mistake?

Yes. It bothers me as well when "homophobic" is thrown about as though anyone who has thought that any homosexual is anything less than perfect, or disagrees with homosexuality even a little, is suddenly terrified of homosexuals or hates the entire group of people and wants to kill them. It desensitizes people to the terms, and they lose track of the real tragedy of people who actually do have such unhealthy feelings about homosexuals.

There are people out there who are hateful and there are people out there who are homophobic. Many of them seem to hide behind their religion. But by no means should people who have problems with allowing homosexuals to marry because of their personal religious beliefs and/or believe that homosexual acts are displeasing to their God be lumped in with such people. I am sorry that I appeared to be doing just that, I agree that the context of my post would lead others to believe as you did.

 

[WatersMoon110]

I never said otherwise. My point though is that very often accusations of hate and homophobia come out when there is nothing to suggest that they are warranted other than a simple statement that the person believes homosexuality to be wrong.

I believe, though I am not sure, that this accusation comes often from people who have known individuals who claimed to be loving the sinner and hating the sin, or something of the like, but in actuality hated all homosexuals. Because of a bad experience with other individuals it is easy to interpret anything less than acceptance of one's qualities as hatred.

"A cat that sits on a hot stove will never repeat the act, but she will never sit on a cold stove again either."

 

[Ohioprof]

I think you missed the point. Phred was talking about the difference between group directed and individual directed comments. I think his point was that most of the insulting and demeaning comments from atheists directed at Christians here were individual directed and additionally were specificly in response to a given statement.

I was basically disagreeing, saying that most of the ones that I had seen were much more general and sweeping.

I think you are mostly right about this, although often people when asked will make a distinction between fundamentalist Christians and other Christians. Often it's fundamentalist Christians that people react negatively to, not all Christians. At least that is what I have seen.

 

[chaz345]

I believe, though I am not sure, that this accusation comes often from people who have known individuals who claimed to be loving the sinner and hating the sin, or something of the like, but in actuality hated all homosexuals. Because of a bad experience with other individuals it is easy to interpret anything less than acceptance of one's qualities as hatred.

"A cat that sits on a hot stove will never repeat the act, but she will never sit on a cold stove again either."

It often does I'm sure. But isn't that tendency to assign motivation to one person based on one's experience with a single, or even many individuals that may have a similar characteristic, pretty much the definition of prejudice or bigotry? Shouldn't we all always try to let our opinions of each individual we encounter be formed, to the greatest extent possible, only on our interactions with that individual?

 

[chaz345]

I think you are mostly right about this, although often people when asked will make a distinction between fundamentalist Christians and other Christians. Often it's fundamentalist Christians that people react negatively to, not all Christians. At least that is what I have seen.

It is often a fundamentalist point that is being responded to, but the response, at least from what I see here pretty often, is broadly aimed at Christians in general.

 

[Ohioprof]

I believe, though I am not sure, that this accusation comes often from people who have known individuals who claimed to be loving the sinner and hating the sin, or something of the like, but in actuality hated all homosexuals. Because of a bad experience with other individuals it is easy to interpret anything less than acceptance of one's qualities as hatred.

"A cat that sits on a hot stove will never repeat the act, but she will never sit on a cold stove again either."

I personally do not care if someone hates me because I am gay. That is their loss. I do care if someone is working to deny me and other gay people equal treatment under the law. Whether they are doing this out of hatred or out of their religious beliefs is irrelevant to me. In either case, I feel I must work to counter their political efforts, not by suppressing their efforts, but by campaigning in opposition to their efforts.

 

[Ohioprof]

It is often a fundamentalist point that is being responded to, but the response, at least from what I see here pretty often, is broadly aimed at Christians in general.

Well, that is wrong, since Christians come in many different varieties, and many Christians reject certain fundamentalist beliefs. People, I think, need to be careful not to overgeneralize about others.

 

[WatersMoon110]

I personally do not care if someone hates me because I am gay. That is their loss. I do care if someone is working to deny me and other gay people equal treatment under the law. Whether they are doing this out of hatred or out of their religious beliefs is irrelevant to me. In either case, I feel I must work to counter their political efforts, not by suppressing their efforts, but by campaigning in opposition to their efforts.

Of course!

I don't see much point in hating people who have issues with homosexuals. I pity them, because a lot of my favorite people are homosexual, and they are missing out on knowing some really great folks. But I think that it is very important to work against the efforts of people who want to deny rights and protection to homosexuals (or anyone) through political campaigning, voting, and non-violent protest.

 

[PassionFruit]

Then I guess the question is, where does all this hostility towards homosexuals come from? I don't hate people who have an irrational disdain for people of the LGBT community, I just want to know where their hatred comes from and why people such as the OP put their energies making up false claims about homosexuals and their activities. That takes a lot of energy in my opinion.

 

[Ramona]

Then I guess the question is, where does all this hostility towards homosexuals come from? I don't hate people who have an irrational disdain for people of the LGBT community, I just want to know where their hatred comes from and why people such as the OP put their energies making up false claims about homosexuals and their activities. That takes a lot of energy in my opinion.

Really. All that negative energy inside would wear me out. It can't be healthy, therfore I'll take no part in it.

 

[MrPirate]

I personally do not care if someone hates me because I am gay. That is their loss. I do care if someone is working to deny me and other gay people equal treatment under the law. Whether they are doing this out of hatred or out of their religious beliefs is irrelevant to me. In either case, I feel I must work to counter their political efforts, not by suppressing their efforts, but by campaigning in opposition to their efforts.

and that sums up the entire issue.