This is the question I have!

[Astrid]

Not really, except in the sence of the earth being the the

I wasn't excusing anything, just saying that you each seem to have written bad things about the other.

Accused of base and ignoble motives
for making a statement of FACT, I
responded appropriately.

Offered an Off topic non apology, I rejected it.

Now, please don’t further derail.

 

[David Lamb]

Accused of base and ignoble motives
for making a statement of FACT, I
responded appropriately.

Offered an Off topic non apology, I rejected it.

Now, please don’t further derail.

Right, I'll leave it to you two.

 

[AV1611VET]

I won’t ever respond to him again anyway.
But
Better late than never.

Merry Christmas, Astrid!

 

[truthpls]

View attachment 358781

The question is in 2 parts. The first part is easy. The dates are wrong. The fossil record is spread out though.

The second part is not known. Why were some types of life able to leave fossil remains but most other forms of life in the same times were not?

What we do know is that all kinds of creatures were created the same few days.

For the early record it is possible that the sizes of the creatures had something to do with it You know, a cockroach would die before an elephant. If man lived about 1000 years at the time, that means a lot of trilobites and little fishies and worms and little reptiles etc would have died long long long before a man died. All of the layers in your picture on up to say, for example, the Jurassic would probably represent far less than 2000 years if we assume the flood was somewhere around the late Mesozoic/early Cenozoic.

That almost has a nice ring to it 'Noah, the Cenozoician

 

[BCP1928]

The question is in 2 parts. The first part is easy. The dates are wrong. The fossil record is spread out though.

The second part is not known. Why were some types of life able to leave fossil remains but most other forms of life in the same times were not?

What we do know is that all kinds of creatures were created the same few days.

"We" don't know that. You assert it without evidence.

For the early record it is possible that the sizes of the creatures had something to do with it You know, a cockroach would die before an elephant. If man lived about 1000 years at the time, that means a lot of trilobites and little fishies and worms and little reptiles etc would have died long long long before a man died. All of the layers in your picture on up to say, for example, the Jurassic would probably represent far less than 2000 years if we assume the flood was somewhere around the late Mesozoic/early Cenozoic.

That almost has a nice ring to it 'Noah, the Cenozoician

 

[Shemjaza]

The question is in 2 parts. The first part is easy. The dates are wrong. The fossil record is spread out though.

The second part is not known. Why were some types of life able to leave fossil remains but most other forms of life in the same times were not?

What we do know is that all kinds of creatures were created the same few days.

For the early record it is possible that the sizes of the creatures had something to do with it You know, a cockroach would die before an elephant. If man lived about 1000 years at the time, that means a lot of trilobites and little fishies and worms and little reptiles etc would have died long long long before a man died. All of the layers in your picture on up to say, for example, the Jurassic would probably represent far less than 2000 years if we assume the flood was somewhere around the late Mesozoic/early Cenozoic.

The issue with that kind of interpretation is that the behavior of rocks from a couple thousand years of Antediluvian history are nothing like we know the normal behavior of rocks, minerals, plants and animals.

Nothing in the Mesozoic or before really resembles modern life (short of a few crocodiles, birds and "rats").

That almost has a nice ring to it 'Noah, the Cenozoician

That sounds like something from the implied sword and sorcery setting from the Darren+Aronofsky film based on Noah.

Here's Methuselah with a flaming sword.

 

[dlamberth]

The question is in 2 parts. The first part is easy. The dates are wrong. The fossil record is spread out though.

The second part is not known. Why were some types of life able to leave fossil remains but most other forms of life in the same times were not?

What we do know is that all kinds of creatures were created the same few days.

For the early record it is possible that the sizes of the creatures had something to do with it You know, a cockroach would die before an elephant. If man lived about 1000 years at the time, that means a lot of trilobites and little fishies and worms and little reptiles etc would have died long long long before a man died. All of the layers in your picture on up to say, for example, the Jurassic would probably represent far less than 2000 years if we assume the flood was somewhere around the late Mesozoic/early Cenozoic.

That almost has a nice ring to it 'Noah, the Cenozoician

I'm sorry, but you lost all respectability to this person when with out the slightest engagement in the geology around it you laughed at the burn dates of the Yellowstone Hotspot as it made it's way to it's present location. We now know that 50 million years ago the Yellowstone Hot spot was off the coast of Oregon making it's way East. Out in the Pacific Ocean It left behind 14 times as much basalt as the Columbia River Basalt, which is also a part of the Yellowstone Hotspot. And which is a pretty large lava flow in it's own right with over 300 different flows over millions of years. Some extending over 300 miles. Rather than engaging in the gelogy, you laugh. Essentually, your laughing at the Earth, which IS God's Creation. As such, I see you laughing at God. So thanks, but that spoke volumes to me. And not in a good way that I'd want to continue with you.

 

[truthpls]

"We" don't know that. You assert it without evidence.

Me and God know that. It is right in the bible.

 

[truthpls]

The issue with that kind of interpretation is that the behavior of rocks from a couple thousand years of Antediluvian history are nothing like we know the normal behavior of rocks, minerals, plants and animals.

Unless the billions of year ages ascribed to the rocks are invalid. In that case it would be hard to tell what was what

Nothing in the Mesozoic or before really resembles modern life (short of a few crocodiles, birds and "rats").

Many things in the first few thousand years up to that Mesozoic period resembled what lives today, even mankind. Crows. Doves, etc. Having some trilobites and things go extinct and leave fossilized remains doesn't change that

That sounds like something from the implied sword and sorcery setting from the Darren+Aronofsky film based on Noah.

Here's Methuselah with a flaming sword.

Methuselah was an interesting guy, and also a great example of what I was just talking about. He lived almost a thousand years. They right up to or almost right up to the flood. So he knew Adam. He also lived in the time of Noah for many centuries. Can you imagine how many little trilobites and whatnot died and left remains in that time!?

 

[truthpls]

I'm sorry, but you lost all respectability to this person when with out the slightest engagement in the geology around it you laughed at the burn dates of the Yellowstone Hotspot as it made it's way to it's present location. We now know that 50 million years ago the Yellowstone Hot spot was off the coast of Oregon making it's way East.

The dates are laughable. Yes hotspots moved along etc.

Out in the Pacific Ocean It left behind 14 times as much basalt as the Columbia River Basalt, which is also a part of the Yellowstone Hotspot.

That is something too big for the thread. Why basalt exists etc etc

And which is a pretty large lava flow in it's own right with over 300 different flows over millions of years.

Lots of molten rock and etc, yes. You might want to save your millions of years thing for believers in the naturalonlydunnitall. I am not one of them, I know Goddunnit.

Some extending over 300 miles. Rather than engaging in the gelogy, you laugh. Essentually, your laughing at the Earth, which IS God's Creation. As such, I see you laughing at God. So thanks, but that spoke volumes to me. And not in a good way that I'd want to continue with you.

Having a lot of molten rock and/or flowing lava is no problem.

 

[Shemjaza]

Unless the billions of year ages ascribed to the rocks are invalid. In that case it would be hard to tell what was what

The billions of years from radiometric testing is consistent with evidence from astronomy.

But My issue wasn't with the absolute dating, it was with the evidence for rock behavior completely at odds with only a couple of thousand years of events and deaths.

Many things in the first few thousand years up to that Mesozoic period resembled what lives today, even mankind. Crows. Doves, etc. Having some trilobites and things go extinct and leave fossilized remains doesn't change that

I have never seen evidence for Mesozoic birds resembling modern families like corvids and doves, in fact many of them are difficult to tell apart from small non avian dinosaurs.

There definitely isn't any evidence for primates in the Mesozoic, let alone humans.

Methuselah was an interesting guy, and also a great example of what I was just talking about. He lived almost a thousand years. They right up to or almost right up to the flood. So he knew Adam. He also lived in the time of Noah for many centuries. Can you imagine how many little trilobites and whatnot died and left remains in that time!?

Adam to Noah is just not that long a time. My literal reading makes it only about 1500 years... plus the flood wouldn't be a vague bit of geological remnant, it'd be a world wide layer of devastation, not curved little river meanders and delicate sorted layers.

 

[truthpls]

The billions of years from radiometric testing is consistent with evidence from astronomy.

I know. Both assume the natural only and are only as good as your proof there is nothing but the natural. Too bad you have none. Natural only projecting high and low. If the stars were created supernaturally, and the world, that means none of your calculations are right. Now that we have that straightened out I will point out that the astronomical data agrees with a supernatural creation as well.

But My issue wasn't with the absolute dating, it was with the evidence for rock behavior completely at odds with only a couple of thousand years of events and deaths.

Specifically what evidence? Having only smaller creatures die early in the record?

I have never seen evidence for Mesozoic birds resembling modern families like corvids and doves, in fact many of them are difficult to tell apart from small non avian dinosaurs.

That is because you have no evidence for birds in that time. Did you think that meant there were no birds then? No. It means that the evidence you expected was missing and the reason is misplaced expectations. God never said man would leave remains. Nor that birds would in that time before the flood. So why would you think they would exactly?

There definitely isn't any evidence for primates in the Mesozoic, let alone humans.

Says who? Genesis is evidence. Wait, you mean natural only evidence that you think is all that matters? So if Jesus rose from the dead would that be evidence He is the creator? Would that be evidence there is more than the natural?

Adam to Noah is just not that long a time.

I know. Neither was the creation of the world by God.

My literal reading makes it only about 1500 years...

Exactly, I was being generous by saying under 2000 years.

plus the flood wouldn't be a vague bit of geological remnant, it'd be a world wide layer of devastation, not curved little river meanders and delicate sorted layers.

Would it though? I submit that such a flood would be impossible in this natural world. The flood was carried out by a supernatural being. He brought the water from above and below. He made the water recede. He closed the door of the ark. He brought the animals. He designed the ark exactly. He gave the specs to Noah. He arranged for the world to carry on afterwards. He disposed of any waste/bodies/old world etc that was needed. So who are you to say what sort of 'remnant' He should have left? He wanted a whole new deal. Trying to use natural only dunnit it all logic doesn't work on acts of God. Like creation. Like the flood. Like Babel. Like anything He did that we may not even know about yet.

The flood was only mentioned for timing. To approximate when the geologic layers were in the OP. The lifetimes of two men would exceed the time from creation to the flood! It is OK to assume a lot of the little sorts of fossilized creatures in the layers up to the cretaceous or so would have died in that time, but not a lot of bigger animals and man etc. Plus I said that this was only one likely factor.

 

[BCP1928]

Me and God know that. It is right in the bible.

So you assert. And all you offer for evidence is an heterodox minority interpretation of an ancient religious text.

 

[Astrid]

So you assert. And all you offer for evidence is an heterodox minority interpretation of an ancient religious text.

It’s worse than mere assertion.

There’s a commandment broken

As well as a whole array of ethical, moral, intellectual
issues, all arrogantly scorned in vanity.

 

[River Jordan]

If man lived about 1000 years at the time, that means a lot of trilobites and little fishies and worms and little reptiles etc would have died long long long before a man died. All of the layers in your picture on up to say, for example, the Jurassic would probably represent far less than 2000 years if we assume the flood was somewhere around the late Mesozoic/early Cenozoic.

Then why aren't any modern marine organisms found in the same strata as trilobites?

 

[truthpls]

Then why aren't any modern marine organisms found in the same strata as trilobites?

If a whale lived for say, 1200 years in the time of the early record, it seems logical that we would not see them dead and fossilized with sea bugs that maybe died at the tender age of a few months or some such. Notice that trilobites cease to exist as we get up the record?

The issue is a good one though, and the answer, I am guessing involves more than the point I just raised.

 

[River Jordan]

If a whale lived for say, 1200 years in the time of the early record, it seems logical that we would not see them dead and fossilized with sea bugs that maybe died at the tender age of a few months or some such. Notice that trilobites cease to exist as we get up the record?

The issue is a good one though, and the answer, I am guessing involves more than the point I just raised.

I'm not talking about whales. I'm talking about modern marine organisms that live on the ocean floors, just like trilobites. Why are they never, ever found fossilized with trilobites?

 

[truthpls]

I'm not talking about whales. I'm talking about modern marine organisms that live on the ocean floors, just like trilobites. Why are they never, ever found fossilized with trilobites?

OK, this deserves a little longer reply. I'll work on that a while first.

(while I am doing that, if any creationist can try to take a stab at that, it might be good)

 

[BCP1928]

Did Jesus ans the apostles and prophets all have a minority view of 'an ancient religious text' also? The answer is yes. Wide is the way that leads to naturalonlydunnit philosophy and belief and many there be that go on that highway.

I don't think you understand what their view of it was.

 

[Astrid]

If a whale lived for say, 1200 years in the time of the early record, it seems logical that we would not see them dead and fossilized with sea bugs that maybe died at the tender age of a few months or some such. Notice that trilobites cease to exist as we get up the record?

The issue is a good one though, and the answer, I am guessing involves more than the point I just raised.

It involves being informed on the subject you wish to discuss.

Which takes considerable time and effort, not to mention and so
important, the capacity to move past existing errors and into new
understandings.

My guess is this will prove impossible in this case.


I will happily look forward to being proved wrong, though,
if you care to try.