This is really making me angry!

[Antigone]

You know the fact is that some here are insinuating untruths here, Law is not 'hiding' or being shielded by anything.

So he's just lucky, then?

 

[princess_ballet]

You know the fact is that some here are insinuating untruths here, Law is not 'hiding' or being shielded by anything.

They insinuate he is a fugitive- fact is that there are no criminal nor pending criminal charges against him- we have the parents of molested children who let the statute of limitations run out to thank for that one now dont we ?

Now we're liars.

This is totally the fault of the parents. Absolutely.

And because the statute has run, this guy has done nothing wrong.

Give me a break. If this was your child, you would be singing a different tune. Or so I would hope.

 

[Neo2]

I know we have a variety of threads about this, but I just saw another piece on the news about the abuse scandals and how this is "rocking" the Church in Europe.

And so what did the Cardinal do in Ireland? He apologized today.

Really? No, you should be in JAIL for conspiracy with the priests who did this. All of them should be in JAIL for what they've done -- not living cushy lives somewhere



It makes it really hard to tell people about the church and convince them to either come to mass (or come back) when this type of stuff is going on.

I agree with you.
Archbishop Martin in Dublin offers light to Catholics in this dark hour I believe. And it is a very dark hour.
In swearing to silence children who had been raped the Primate of Ireland, as a priest, directly facilitated the rape of other children. It is rotten disgusting and I cannot believe he can continue to hold office. These people treated canon law as superior to the law of the land. I believe they were even worse than the perverts because they, we must believe were not sick. In their sound minds they knew child rape had occurred and instead of reporting the perpetrators to the police they gagged the victims.
Although not a Catholic I want the church to emerge from this because it is vital to the lives of so many. I believe the future lies with the likes of Archbishop Martin.
I heard on the news yesterday that a criminal investigation regarding a perversion of the course of justice is being considered against Cardinal Brady. I believe this would be the right thing for the state to do.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

I'm sure he's just suffering so much... and you have no idea why folks are angry, for real, you can not recognize the anger and why?

I'll give you a hint.... it due to the injustice of this situation- it's the injustice that cries to heaven for vengeance.

Cardinal Law never committed a crime. The AG of Mass tried to find something, even after getting all the Church documents released, but could not.

For the most part, he followed the protocol on sexual abuse as advised by the medical staff he consulted with, law enforcement and even the slime ball lawyer who later brought the law suits on behalf of the alleged victims. This same lawyer is the one who demanded silence for his clients years before.

What I fault Cardinal Law with is passing on the issue to lower members of his staff, Bishop McCormic being one of them.

I also fault Cardinal Law for not taking Fr Shanley down, but instead, getting him transferred out of his dioceses and out to California, via a glowing letter of recommendation.

However, the position he was demoted to is, a demotion. He can not be removed as a Cardinal, just as he can't be removed as a priest, especially where he made a mistake in management, which he has repented on.

Remember, the Church is in the business of forgiveness.

Jim

 

[benedictaoo]

What I fault Cardinal Law with is passing on the issue to lower members of his staff, Bishop McCormic being one of them.

I also fault Cardinal Law for not taking Fr Shanley down, but instead, getting him transferred out of his dioceses and out to California, via a glowing letter of recommendation.

What he did was knowingly send a child molester off to someone else's parish to be around their kids... so the next victim would no longer be his problem to have to deal with.

That is despicable... I do not care what he was advised to do... he isn't stupid, he knew he was sending a preist off to do it again... it's the same as a mother who allows a child molester to live in the same house as her kids.

Look, you can't make excuses for what is just an inexcusable thing. A preist will still be a preist in a jail to, and so will a cardinal...

Back in the day it was right and proper for the Church officials to put to death a heretic who risked the souls of many with their false teaching and ability to cause people to leave the Church.

Tell me how this is different? These bishops, the preists and many are STILL refusing to give up the names, have done what? Caused many, many to lose faith in God and at the very least, leave the Catholic faith.

It's sad becuase the Catholic Faith did not molest those kids, Catholic preists did, a person, a man, a mere mortal man and that man, is not above the law just becuase he's a preist.

 

[benedictaoo]

Now we're liars.

This is totally the fault of the parents. Absolutely.

And because the statute has run, this guy has done nothing wrong.

Give me a break. If this was your child, you would be singing a different tune. Or so I would hope.

I do agree it was partly the parents fault becuase if someone were to hurt my kids, i'm not going to the bishop with it... I'm going to the police.

However, 40 years ago, it was not that way. Parents assumed the bishops would do what was right and they didn't want the kids to be stigmatized.

I think they just wanted it all to go away and have the kid forget what happened. That is a normal and natural reaction, albeit a wrong reaction we have found out... it's sending these preist off to do it all over again is not what I can wrap my head around.

and today, the Vatican seemingly covering up for the covering up.


One preist told me once that bishops see their preists as their children and so they wanted to believe the preists when they said they would never do it again... I think they just wanted to escape justice and responsibility but it's the same as a mother who believes we are to keep what ever goes on under this roof, under this roof... a family that thinks they can handle it, it's a family situation and not really a crime and no one's business... I think they operated on that false mentality.

and the bishops thought keeping it a secrete would protect the public at larges' faith but we see how that freakin back fired.

What sadness me is, the bishops still have not learned from the mistakes of the past and will still stand behind accused preists, they all stick together and protect one another.

If any one here has ever had to deal with a issue with a preist and had to take to the issue to the diocese, they would soon see and know how the game is played, the diocese aren't too quick to go against a preist even if the preist is wrong. It's like pulling teeth to even get to speak to a bishop...

IOW, it's church politics as usual and that is a hard pill to swallow but it's fallen human nature.

 

[BAFRIEND]

Now we're liars.

This is totally the fault of the parents. Absolutely.

And because the statute has run, this guy has done nothing wrong.

Give me a break. If this was your child, you would be singing a different tune. Or so I would hope.

if this were my child, i would have gone to the police- not to the bisop to have the priest reassigned- yeah, the parents are a big part of the problem

now if this were your child and it was a school and you found out your teacher did something would you go to the prinicpal and have the teacher transferred to another school and then wash your hands ?

yeah, if the bishop should be in prison then so should the parents, its amazing- if the parents had gone to the police instead of taking kickbacks then the bishops would not be in the middle of all this today

an mind me, if the parents had gone to the police at the time the priest would have gotten a few months in jail if any time at all and been out on te streets re-offending in no time.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

benedictaoo

I do agree it was partly the parents fault becuase if someone were to hurt my kids, i'm not going to the bishop with it... I'm going to the police.

However, 40 years ago, it was not that way. Parents assumed the bishops would do what was right and they didn't want the kids to be stigmatized.

and according to the times, the expert advise given to the Bishops, they did do what was right.

Pedophilia wasn't even used in psychology text books back then. Men who molested children were thought to have a curable disorder.

We know now its not the case, and for many of the Bishops, they're being tried by the public with current knowledge, not what was known 40 years ago.

Fr Benedict Groeschel as an excellent book on the subject. He himself is a trained clinical psychologist.

Jim

 

[benedictaoo]

if this were my child, i would have gone to the police- no to the bisop to have the priest reassigned- yeah, the parents are a big part of the problem

now if this were your child and it was a school and you found out your teacher did something would you go to the prinicpal and have the teacher transferred to another school and then was your hands ?

yeah, if the bishop should be in prison then so should the parents

It Was 40 years ago.. no, you would not have... you would now and so would everyone else but sexual abuse then was in the closet... you would have trusted that a BISHOP for goodness sakes would care and do what is right by your kid but we see what they did instead. They did what was right for the preist.

What they did was evil and I will not defend evil. You can, but I refuse to make excuses for the evil that was done to both the parents and kids.

Do you understand, now we can look back and see that hey, the bishops did not have a valid excuse for doing what they did.

Not demoting them and allowing them to serve at a parish in the Vatican, that is hardly a punishment.

what they did was take advantage of parents who literally did not know what to do about it. They need to come clean and serve what ever punishments comes their way. That is the ONLY thing that will right this wrong.

 

[BAFRIEND]

benedictaoo



and according to the times, the expert advise given to the Bishops, they did do what was right.

Pedophilia wasn't even used in psychology text books back then. Men who molested children were thought to have a curable disorder.

We know now its not the case, and for many of the Bishops, they're being tried by the public with current knowledge, not what was known 40 years ago.

Fr Benedict Groeschel as an excellent book on the subject. He himself is a trained clinical psychologist.

Jim

good post but unfortunately although 'they' are high and mighty it will still go over their heads- the fact is probably a lot of parents did go to the police and were redirected by police or prosecuters back to the Church and then turned a blind eye, and this is fact; that is exactly the case in some of the Boston incidents= the DA would refer the parents back to th bishop and close the books

but dont expct charity, understanding, empathy, consideration of context froma lot of people who just want another excuse to deal with the skeletons in their own closets relating to the dogma of the Church.

I suspect there is more to this from some here then some 'outrage' over abused children

 

[benedictaoo]

benedictaoo



and according to the times, the expert advise given to the Bishops, they did do what was right.

Pedophilia wasn't even used in psychology text books back then. Men who molested children were thought to have a curable disorder.

We know now its not the case, and for many of the Bishops, they're being tried by the public with current knowledge, not what was known 40 years ago.

Fr Benedict Groeschel as an excellent book on the subject. He himself is a trained clinical psychologist.

Jim

I understand that but that does not excuse it what so ever. It's the covering up that still goes on. There was an article not to long ago about diocese who paid out all the law suits, but still refused to, as part of the settlement, to give up the preist. That's bull.

 

[BAFRIEND]

It Was 40 years ago.. no, you would not have... you would now and so would everyone else but sexual abuse then was in the closet... you would have trusted that a BISHOP for goodness sakes would care and do what is right by your kid but we see what they did instead. They did what was right for the preist.

What they did was evil and I will not defend evil. You can, but I refuse to make excuses for the evil that was done to both the parents and kids.

Do you understand, now we can look back and see that hey, the bishops did not have a valid excuse for doing what they did.

Not demoting them and allowing them to serve at a parish in the Vatican, that is hardly a punishment.

what they did was take advantage of parents who literally did not know what to do about it. They need to come clean and serve what ever punishments comes their way. That is the ONLY thing that will right this wrong.

what you are doing here is contributing motive for this and that- excusing the parents but under the same formula come to a different solution for the bishops

the fact is that you cannot sit here and state that the motive of the bishop was to take advantage of the parents- how many of these parents do you think would have been on the phone to thebisop if someone were robbing their home or a bank ?

can we look now and state that you do not have the right to point th fingers and make accusations like you are doing ?

 

[JimR-OCDS]

I understand that but that does not excuse it what so ever. It's the covering up that still goes on. There was an article not to long ago about diocese who paid out all the law suits but still refused to as part of the settlement to give up the preist. That's bull.

The so called covering up was keeping the incident silent on behalf of the victims, who would suffer more from the negative stigma, than the abuser did.

The fact is, they thought the abuser could be sent away for treatment, then in time return to ministry.

In fact, when the Massachusetts AG got a court order mandating the Dioceses of Boston turn over its records, it showed that in the older cases of reported child abuse the priest was sent for treatment and then based on the reports from the practicing physicians, were allowed back into the ministry.

Only as cases became more recent, did the psychiatrist begin to write warnings in their reports.

Bishops aren't doctors or lawyers, nor are they accountants. They hirer professionals who advise them.


Jim

 

[BAFRIEND]

I understand that but that does not excuse it what so ever. It's the covering up that still goes on. There was an article not to long ago about diocese who paid out all the law suits, but still refused to, as part of the settlement, to give up the preist. That's bull.

what do you mean give up the priest ?

they took the money to the bank- the fact is that no DA would prosecute once the parents got their blackmail money- letting the priest go so other kids would get snared

and that is exactly what it is- when M Jackson got accused the first time he paid millions and the criminal charges disappeared, because of that CA changed the laws

 

[Winter]

If a Catholic can get excommunicated from the church for having a divorce - or marrying in a non-Catholic church, then why shouldn't a priest be removed from the priesthood for molesting a child (and we're not even talking about excommunication here - I'm saying at the very least "removed from priesthood".)

I mean, why do we get excommunicated for breaking church law, but priests get scot free for destroying another human being?

 

[BAFRIEND]

If a Catholic can get excommunicated from the church for having a divorce - or marrying in a non-Catholic church, then why shouldn't a priest be removed from the priesthood for molesting a child (and we're not even talking about excommunication here - I'm saying at the very least "removed from priesthood".)

I mean, why do we get excommunicated for breaking church law, but priests get scot free for destroying another human being?

what do you mean 'we' ?

why dont you read what Jesus states about adultery and divorce- think the Church should go against the teachings of Jesus ?

and the Church does not excommunicate- God is the one who excommunicates, no paperwork neccessary

 

[Winter]

why dont you read what Jesus states about adultery and divorce- think the Church should go against the teachings of Jesus ?

No, of course not. My point is that destroying another human being is as sinful as adultery and divorce. So if you're going to excommunicate one for divorce, you better do something with the other who molests a child. At the VERY LEAST remove them from the priesthood.

 

[TheOtherHockeyMom]

No, of course not. My point is that destroying another human being is as sinful as adultery and divorce. So if you're going to excommunicate one for divorce, you better do something with the other who molests a child. At the VERY LEAST remove them from the priesthood.

Does the Church really excommunicate for divorce? I am divorced and remarried in a different (Episcopal) church. I am currently going through the process of an annulment, and while I still attend mass regularly, I will not receive communion until the annulment is final and I can get my marriage blessed. The priest told me that some in my position do receive communion, but many feel it is better to wait.

 

[BAFRIEND]

No, of course not. My point is that destroying another human being is as sinful as adultery and divorce. So if you're going to excommunicate one for divorce, you better do something with the other who molests a child. At the VERY LEAST remove them from the priesthood.

apples and oranges winter- the Church does hold that one is seperated from God for abusing a child or commiting adultery clergy or not

either can be forgiven in confession if they are repentent- in his case people fall again and again and can be forgiven- you can be sorry and not intend to sin again and then fall into temptation later

in the case of divorce and remarriage- th person cannot state they are sorry and be forgiven if hey have no intention of righting the situation and continuing involved in the sin... if you remarry and it is not right by the Church you are commiting adultery, therefore excommunicated while you continue in perpetual sin

 

[Miss Shelby]

I guess I share your sentiment, but I don't know what you're getting at?

guilty people should go to jail for punishment, but deserve eternal mercy all the same. well if they're sorry.