This Is My Fireproof Thread

[I Art Laughing]

This is laughably OTT IMO; now any movie with a male villain of any kind is man-bashing? Like abandoned single mothers, controlling husbands, glass ceilings, adulterers, rapists and stalkers don't exist? And if they do we can't acknowledge it by chance that other men might get offended because they feel they're being bashed just because they share that character's gender? And like movies don't ever show the "bad" sides of women too? Don't kid yourself into thinking that women aren't largely used and abused in the media in their own ways, picked for their attractiveness/sexuality, dumped when they're past their prime (30's), portrayed as highly sexualized, conniving, manipulative shrews, etc. If you can't handle any man being some kind of a villain in a movie without taking it personally then you can't watch anything; and the same goes for women! The truth is, humans, regardless of gender, are complex creatures; we all have bad and we all have good. Movies would be pretty boring and dishonest if they only showed the good wouldn't they?

Hey, I know, let's see if we can get sponsors to fund maybe like 5 networks that are dedicated to showing the evils of women. I don't have a problem with fully developed plots with men portrayed as villains. What I have a problem with is when men and masculinity are beat on like bongos by lazy writers in every other program on TV. What I have an even bigger problem with is when ostensibly "Christian" women and writers jump on the bandwagon and then act oblivious to the rampant prejudice that they perpetuate.

If you don't have a problem with media treatment of masculinity and resist the urge to consume it then why should men offer any more resistance to the media's treatment of femininity?

In short, if Christian women want to see men as emotionally vacated, potentially abusive, ready to abandon their family, sexually promiscuous, brainless bags of idiot as portrayed by the media why should they then get to complain when Christian men want to see women as controlling, overemotional, loggorhroeic, controlling, sexual objects with a very short shelf life?

If Christian women want to watch things demeaning to men, why do they then get to complain about their husbands watching things demeaning to women?

Put the shoe on the other foot. What loving wife would subject her husband to that type of trash? (Any more than a loving husband insisting on subjecting his wife to movies vilifying/objectifying women?)

Also note, I'm not talking about male and female villains. I'm talking about prejudice against gender. If you are sensitive to it you will notice it ALL OVER. It is rampant. BTW, Caleb was the hero (yay, right?) all the while placing men in a bad light. The only good man is one who is a complete servant, good message. The ham handed way in which Caleb's issues, service, and his overcoming were completely ridiculous and unrealistic. A cartoon Christ, lampooning masculinity (yet again).

 

[Romanseight2005]

As opposed to being replaced by women at their work and losing their place being a provider to the family?

Really? Men are still in the workplace so they are not replaced.

Secondly, women joined the workforce in large numbers during war time, so that is why women joined the work force.

Furthermore, read Proverbs to see the definition of an excellent wife. She is a businesswoman who makes business decisions and purchases. Perhaps she stole the field that she considered and bought from a man that might have acquired it?


I'm not attracted to my wife because of her youth, I'm attracted to her because of her. She is MY wife, the relationship is the basis of the attraction.


My lust doesn't have anything to do with relationship, it's divorced from all reality and results in an emotional void.

 

[I Art Laughing]

Well the difference is that I don't see man vs. woman first and foremost. What I saw was Christlikeness, which was inspiring for me as a believer.

Again, by that logic, I could look at Christ, and and hold to high of a standard, but I view Christ's actions as what I am to aspire to, and I find it inspiring and uplifting when I see males or females, children or adults showing Godly character, and loving in a Christlike manner.

Good for you.

What I saw was a lot of wives elbowing their husbands and asking "Why can't you be like that?". Or, "You are like that, why don't you change like he did? Why am I in this marriage?"

Condemnation.

 

[hijklmnop]

^^ Very true Romans.

I would like to flip the question and ask IArt if he would have liked the movie better had the wife gone first and started displaying Christlike behaviour towards her husband.

I kinda have this feeling the filmmakers couldn't win. That had the above happened, the bellyaching would have been about how the woman was portrayed as being a better spouse, more Christlike, etc...

All I got out of Fireproof was it was a nice story about the restoration of a broken marriage. That one spouse made enough of a difference to inspire the other. I don't look specifically for movies that inspire me to be more "submissive."...or that will "manipulate" me into wanting my h to be a better man.

 

[hijklmnop]

Good for you.

What I saw was a lot of wives elbowing their husbands and asking "Why can't you be like that?". Or, "You are like that, why don't you change like he did? Why am I in this marriage?"

Condemnation.

Really? You saw this happening right there in the theatre?

 

[I Art Laughing]

Really? You saw this happening right there in the theatre?

No, I saw it in my friendships/church and marriage. I saw enough of it to see that it was not rare.

My big problem with the story is how very lazy the writers were. There was no nuance in Caleb's character. He went from prototypical male chauvinist jerk to completely selfless wonderful husband in 2.4 seconds. Making him less bad to start and less good to end would have made it less cartoonish. Her character was not developed at all, was he the only reason their marriage was failing (is that the way it works in real life)? That is the way it was portrayed.

I also had a big problem with "Facing the Giants" and the very near "name-it-claim-it" line of poo. Guess what, committing your life to Jesus doesn't smooth out all the roads in front of you. As a couple suffering from infertility I can tell you how much it has hurt us to be clucked at for not "having more faith in God". Then after suffering from a miscarriage (our third I believe) facing our pastor's wife who asked me if I had prayed.

Much better was the movie based on real events such as "Faith Like Potatoes" where the woman came up and asked the protagonists wife why he hadn't raised his nephew from the dead. That is the kind of thing that believers face all the time. Things NOT working out. Coming to realize that Romans 8:28 is more than what you smugly tell someone after THEY have suffered a loss.

Lazy, uninspired, nearly useless writing. In this case they piled on the misandry, probably out of oafishness rather than real malice.

Exposition is a thing of beauty, something that the writers haven't understood yet. If you don't rub out the edges then you end up with a coloring book picture instead of a masterpiece.

I can also use my imagination (in case first hand accounts weren't enough), why won't you?

 

[hijklmnop]

Hey, I know, let's see if we can get sponsors to fund maybe like 5 networks that are dedicated to showing the evils of women.

Are there 5 networks dedicated to showing the evils of men? *puzzled*

I don't have a problem with fully developed plots with men portrayed as villains. What I have a problem with is when men and masculinity are beat on like bongos by lazy writers in every other program on TV.

I see men portrayed as bozos in some sitcoms...the typical dumb husband-smart wife routine a la Everybody Loves Raymond, for example. I just see it as unintelligent comedy and don't watch it. Other than that, I don't see it as a rampant thing the way you are describing.

If you don't have a problem with media treatment of masculinity and resist the urge to consume it then why should men offer any more resistance to the media's treatment of femininity?

You can accept or object to media's treatment of femininity all you like...watch whatever you want. It's not a tit-for-tat thing...."well you don't care so why should I?" That's kind of an immature approach IMO. i think we each need to decide what we think is okay to watch and what isn't. I make my judgement calls, you make yours. I don't think it's wise to engage in some sort of gender based morality contest and bring yourself down to levels you don't respect just because others can and do.

In short, if Christian women want to see men as emotionally vacated, potentially abusive, ready to abandon their family, sexually promiscuous, brainless bags of idiot as portrayed by the media why should they then get to complain when Christian men want to see women as controlling, overemotional, loggorhroeic, controlling, sexual objects with a very short shelf life?

As I stated above...I don't base my morals on what I think other groups of people do or don't accept. This competition thing is just wierd IMO. If you don't want to care then don't. But don't blame it on women not caring first.

If Christian women want to watch things demeaning to men, why do they then get to complain about their husbands watching things demeaning to women?

I personally simply don't want to be with a man who thinks it's okay to be entertained by rude and demeaning stereotypes of women. He can watch whatever he wants, though, and I will think whatever I think of his choices. Same goes vice versa. The alternative is going, "You get to watch drivel that I find offensive, so I should be allowed to too!" How is that helpful or edifying for anyone? Again, it's not a competition. Personally, watching garbage isn't a privilege I resent my h not wanting me to exercise...it's a dumb choice that I'm happy to do without....and I hope the same vice versa for him.

Put the shoe on the other foot. What loving wife would subject her husband to that type of trash? (Any more than a loving husband insisting on subjecting his wife to movies vilifying/objectifying women?)

I'm not subjecting him to anything. I dont create the shows nor do I force him to watch stuff he doesn't want to watch. If he was watching something I found objectifying to women I'd leave the room.And vice versa.

 

[HisBlood2011]

To the Faith Like Potatoes comment, I totally agree. I really love that movie, and find it very inspiring. Actually, the interview/documentary at the end of the movie was what I found to be most inspiring.

Another documentary that was wonderfully inspiring to me was,"Robber of the Cruel Streets." It's a documentary on George Muller's life.

 

[I Art Laughing]

In the U.S. Specifically, OWN, Oxygen, Lifetime, Hallmark, and Pixl. The rest of the channels are not 24/7 dedicated to the complete destruction of masculine traits in society but they contribute wherever possible.

You are participating in a funny style of sophistry. This thread is concerning the movie "Fireproof" not some generic thread about marriage. You came in here. You are defending the misandry in that movie, then you say that pointing out the misandry somehow lowers me? Really?

I'm upset by it, I think it is wrong. I am pointing out why it is wrong by citing further examples and counterexamples (analogies and so forth). You then blithely attempt to swipe aside my argument with the suggestion that I am playing a tit-for-tat style game.

Not so.

Fine don't watch the movie (or not). I did, I think it stinks, stank, stunk and am here to discuss exactly why. I maintain that it is demeaning to men.

Also one of the chief plot points was how teh porn was the debil and a "parasite" and that their marriage wouldn't likely survive it's presence. Why is that? Because it's demeaning to women and causes the husband to have false expectations/desires of his wife, right? My argument is directly in the face of THAT point. If porn is a "parasite" then so is man-bashing garbage like this movie (and a whole slew of others).

I don't want my wife watching that garbage any more than she want's me viewing porn. I want to be satisfied with her and I want her to be satisfied with me. I want to guard my heart against accusing her and diminishing her and I want her to do the same. Is that asking too much?

 

[I Art Laughing]

The other thing that troubles me here is that the church seems to inherently understand that the worlds treatment of women and femininity is totally destructive. When men in the church participate in that culture, specifically PORN, the church doesn't have a problem rightfully calling it SIN. The worlds treatment of men is no less malignant but the approach is more subtle. The church (heck even I used to think this) has MEN pegged as THE PROBLEM, mostly buying into the message being sent by popular culture.

More and more, it isn't the sin that is expressed as the problem as it is masculinity. Rather than spitting it up like the church does with the cultural message about women, the church EMBRACES IT!

Gee, I wonder why men don't want to go to church? When Christian women swallow the culture's message concerning men whole is it any wonder that our families are destroyed? Misandry and misogyny in the church is destructive is worldly and sinful. This problem needs to get recognized and decried! It ISN'T WHINING! Believing wives (and women) need to realize that misandry is every bit as destructive and hurtful as misogny. They need to stop turning a blind eye to it and reaping the selfish benefits that come from their position of ignorance. The benefit of controlling your husbands through belittling them and mocking them is short lived compared with a healthy relationship growing in Christ.

It is error and it needs to be addressed if we are going to have joyful wives who are satisfied with their husbands.

 

[hijklmnop]

Also one of the chief plot points was how teh porn was the debil and a "parasite" and that their marriage wouldn't likely survive it's presence. Why is that? Because it's demeaning to women and causes the husband to have false expectations/desires of his wife, right? My argument is directly in the face of THAT point. If porn is a "parasite" then so is man-bashing garbage like this movie (and a whole slew of others).

Yes, to the bolded, AND, most importantly, using porn is committing adultery as Jesus Himself described it (lust). Since Jesus also allowed divorce for adultery, for some reason setting that particular sin aside as one which destroys the covenant of marriage....I think it's foolish and unBiblical to stretch logic to try and equate porn use and the effect that THAT has on marriages with something as simple as a movie with what you think is an unrealistically great husband which you think will cause women to be dissatisfied with their husbands. Using your logic, I could make the argument that the princes and happy endings in Disney movies are as dangerous to marriages as porn...but I wouldn't. There's silly and unrealistic and then there's adulterous. There's a difference.

 

[hijklmnop]

Believing wives (and women) need to realize that misandry is every bit as destructive and hurtful as misogny.

I do, I just don't see misandry where you do.

The benefit of controlling your husbands through belittling them and mocking them is short lived compared with a healthy relationship growing in Christ.

Who is promoting that kind of behaviour?? ^^

 

[Romanseight2005]

Yes, to the bolded, AND, most importantly, using porn is committing adultery as Jesus Himself described it (lust). Since Jesus also allowed divorce for adultery, for some reason setting that particular sin aside as one which destroys the covenant of marriage....I think it's foolish and unBiblical to stretch logic to try and equate porn use and the effect that THAT has on marriages with something as simple as a movie with what you think is an unrealistically great husband which you think will cause women to be dissatisfied with their husbands. Using your logic, I could make the argument that the princes and happy endings in Disney movies are as dangerous to marriages as porn...but I wouldn't. There's silly and unrealistic and then there's adulterous. There's a difference.

What's worse about that comparison is that focusing on Christ Himself could do the same damage by his logic.

 

[I Art Laughing]

I believe one of the symptoms of misandry, the constant drumbeat of man-bashing in our culture, is that you have most men who don't understand God's love for them. They feel useless and unappreciated, like they don't have anything to offer even on their best day. Because they don't understand God's love and they are constantly being condemned by the world and the church for being men they abdicate. They quit on God because they feel like God has quit on them. I've been there and done that (as a pastor). They are awash in a culture that says they aren't good for their families, that they aren't good believers and the church wants to daub the cracks in their foundation with untempered mortar.

When I was first entering the ministry I wanted to confess to the congregation that I had been sexually abused as a child, my senior pastor said "Absolutely NOT!". You can't let people know that you struggle. Keep it secret, God can't deal with that. There doesn't seem to be much that God can deal with when you keep everything a secret. Daub over it, pretend everything is okay, until you collapse in failure.

Christian women have a sense of this. Being held up to the scrutiny of the popular culture is horrendous, simply put, they shouldn't be. They shouldn't be told that they must look beautiful to be loved, that they must perform in bed to be loved, that they must be perfect wives to be loved. The popular culture has women working for love and it is TOTALLY WRONG. When women buy into it OR MEN. We can't be conformed to this world.

I have to guard my heart against expectations from the world for myself AND for my wife. I need to be thankful for her and express God's love to her no matter what (because He loves her and I am his vessel as her husband). She is obliged to do the same (not by me but by God). As believers, the same goes for all of us.

I think that men need help and encouragement to overcome the world. They need to know that they are useful, that God has a purpose that they can accomplish and will provide the strength to do it. I firmly believe that "Fireproof" is doing the opposite and that's why I started commenting in this thread.

I also find it interesting why so many "female focused" women commenters have found their way into this thread to argue with men about how they felt about this male focused film. Ladies, what did YOU PERSONALLY get out of this film that made you a better wife? Did you get the "Love Dare" and work through it on your husband. (I made it to about day 7 before I started gagging). I'm not talking about how it instructed your marriage but how it instructed YOU.

 

[FreeinChrist]

MOD HAT



Closing this for review

 

[JCFantasy23]

MOD HAT ON

Thread has undergone a minor cleanup. Please keep it civil. Thread is now re-opened.


​

 

[Luther073082]

I also find it interesting why so many "female focused" women commenters have found their way into this thread to argue with men about how they felt about this male focused film. Ladies, what did YOU PERSONALLY get out of this film that made you a better wife? Did you get the "Love Dare" and work through it on your husband. (I made it to about day 7 before I started gagging). I'm not talking about how it instructed your marriage but how it instructed YOU.

Don't you know marriage problem's are all caused by men?

Fireproof was aimed at fixing men. . . What should women have to fix. . . well nothing because apparently they are perfect. . . or as close to it as you will find on earth.

 

[I Art Laughing]

Don't you know marriage problem's are all caused by men?

Fireproof was aimed at fixing men. . . What should women have to fix. . . well nothing because apparently they are perfect. . . or as close to it as you will find on earth.

Some have made that opinion well known. I shouldn't let it bug me so much.

 

[Conservativation]

The movie and other things share similar traits.

Back 15 years ago we were big on Promise Keepers, heck you actually could say been there done that got the t shirt, there were t shirts.

We, in a van were picking up men, this one was in the drive with his wife who had that little expectant smile, like she just knew he was gonna get better, like sending a male child off to some remediation camp, resolved it was for the best. That's how this gets past people, that's why folks cant see it, they think how can an effort by women to better the man, encouraging him etc be bad?

Because its too other focused and invites ongoing other focus. It begs a teacher student expectation.

(that women later ran off with her salsa instructor....just an aside)

Fireproof and the tone of these posts is the same. What can possibly be wrong, these women just want whats best for men, that the men live up to their God given potential right?

 

[I Art Laughing]

(that women later ran off with her salsa instructor....just an aside)

I guess that shows that her husband wasn't a very good "Promise Keeper". Surely it must have been all his fault that the marriage failed.