This is how it is for me.

[stevevw]

The first expression I guess you can call it that is becoming more clear to me the more I trust God and centering Christ in my life. Is that I am so so gratful. You don't believe how grateful I am that God not only saved me which in itself is amazing and a testiment to how God knows us so well.

But that He also makes everything ok. He offers something more than this life. Which I know without Him I could have been anything evil that we see in the world. Even the persuit of this worlds riches. Which I had done.

That God can not only change individuals but families or groups of people and even moreso difficult situations that seem impossible if you believe.

I sometimes feel like the Prodigal son twice over and yet God still forgives me and loves me. The more I know this the more I want to please Him.

In some ways I see myself as lucky that I experienced what I did such as addiction and crime. Or becoming the world and experiencing all that this involves including the persuit of money and material gain.

But being raised a Catholic but leaving pretty early and into the public system. The result I might add of a divorce and family breakdown. Which has led to the family being seperated for years in different parts of Australia.

Nevertheless I always felt God somewhere in the background. So I wonder if I was always saved and then became the Prodigal son a couple of times. Because I was saved I think when in my 20s. After getting into a lot of trouble I ended up facing long term jail or rehab lol. Back in those days the whole drug rehab and courts was starting. They must have seen I had potential lol.

But after some years I drifted away from the church, got married, travelled the world, lived in England for a few years and came back. Then continued my lifestyle as Aussies do. I was back on home turf and knew the culture of sex and drugs and rock and roll. In reality it was heavy drinking and lots of pot. Then businesses again and it ended in a heart attack at the age of 45.

Then things began to change. Not right away. But I was reflecting on my life and what the meaning of everything was. But was also having these internal battles or perhaps arguements with myself about the typical stuff that skeptics bring up. Evolution and science is the answer and makes more sense ect.

But I began to want more meaning and knew there was more this this mystery that meets the eye. Which I think was Gods light still flickering in my mind or spirit. I began to work in the care industry and I think this was the gradual process that got me back to God. It was not easy as I had many doubts and I had a tendency to get fixated on ideas and arguements and rationalism and all that.

But then it all just did not matter. Still the persistent inkling tugging at my soul and conscience of God and the vision of Christs sole footprints in the sand because he was carrying me.

But I am glad for this as no matter what God was there and all those trials and mistakes were part of what got me to where I am and I don't think I would have the same meaning and fullness of life without this.

But heres the strange this and I am not sure others feel the same. But for some reason Kirks murder has caused me to be even more sure and careful of my belief. Seeing all the division and hate and chaos has sort of made me retreat and get back to the basics. To be more Christlike than ever before as it seems the culture itself is changing that it should cause Christians to reflect.

Everyone is different and that is the great thing that through Christ everyone becomes an example and together this is a force. More so now than ever I think Christians need to preprove their belief and be more Christlike regardless of the world. It is getter harder but also that is when Christ shines.

 

[stevevw]

 

[d taylor]

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You want assurance do not look to experiences, but always look to the one thing can not not fail and is simple.

Simply the promise of God (who can not lie) that all who believe in Jesus for Eternal Life. Receives Eternal Life permanently, no matter how their life turns out.

At the very moment of belief in Jesus, they cross over from death to life and will not come into judgment.

 

[biblelesson]

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You want assurance do not look to experiences, but always look to the one thing can not not fail and is simple.

Simply the promise of God (who can not lie) that all who believe in Jesus for Eternal Life. Receives Eternal Life permanently, no matter how their life turns out.

At the very moment of belief in Jesus, they cross over from death to life and will not come into judgment.

What about what the gospel says (the gospel of Christ, 2 Corinthians 4:4 KJV), that is the power of God unto salvation? Romans 1:16 KJV

What about those who say they believe, but are without the Spirit of Christ? Romans 8:9 KJV

What about those who say they believe, but Jesus told them He never knew them? Matthew 7:23 KJV

It’s the same as preachers telling their congregation that all we need is a little faith like the mustered seed when the mustered didn’t have little faith, it had great faith.

Faith as a mustered seed is not speaking about the size of the mustered seed? It’s speaking about the capacity of the mustered seed’s faith. A tiny seed being planted in the ground had the capacity to flourish into a great magnificent tree. Great faith!

To prove we must have great faith!
1) When walking on water, Jesus said to Peter, oh ye of little faith! If little faith was ok to have, why did Jesus addressed Peter’s little faith as the reason he fell in the water.
2) when the disciples could not cast out an evil spirit, Jesus was annoyed with them and said they could not do it because of their little faith. If little faith was enough, why could they not accomplish casting out the evil spirit.

The capacity for great faith does not exist in us! This type of faith is bestowed on us by God’s Spirit through Christ Jesus, as we digest the gospel of Christ - eat His words - Jesus told the disciples my words are Spirit…

My main issue is sometimes we say things about salvation that does not address the true requirements for salvation. It is not enough to say we believe in Jesus; there is much, much more that secures our salvation, and it is following the exact truth of the gospel of Christ, the power of the gospel, that is the power of God unto salvation. Leaving out the requirements of the gospel, we cannot obtain salvation.

We must look to experience. That is the only way we know we have been given the Holy Spirit - the Spirit bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, Romans 8:16 KJV - this is an actual experience

We sit in heavenly places in Christ Jesus - this is an actual experience through the power of the Spirit Who raises our consciousness to where we are placed in another dimension- from putting off the flesh, the old man, to walking in the new man in Christ Jesus.

It’s not enough to say we believe, we must be conformed into the image of Christ - the power of the gospel manifests these realities in our life, by God’s Spirit.

The same Spirit that raised Christ from the dead must be in us in order for us to be raised at Christ’s return. Through the Spirit we must please the Husbandman Who desires the first fruits - That is, we must produce fruit - the Fruit of the Spirit, bestowed upon us by the Spirit through many trials - the furnace of affliction.

 

[d taylor]

What about what the gospel says (the gospel of Christ, 2 Corinthians 4:4 KJV), that is the power of God unto salvation? Romans 1:16 KJV

What about those who say they believe, but are without the Spirit of Christ? Romans 8:9 KJV

What about those who say they believe, but Jesus told them He never knew them? Matthew 7:23 KJV

It’s the same as preachers telling their congregation that all we need is a little faith like the mustered seed when the mustered didn’t have little faith, it had great faith.

Faith as a mustered seed is not speaking about the size of the mustered seed? It’s speaking about the capacity of the mustered seed’s faith. A tiny seed being planted in the ground had the capacity to flourish into a great magnificent tree. Great faith!

To prove we must have great faith!
1) When walking on water, Jesus said to Peter, oh ye of little faith! If little faith was ok to have, why did Jesus addressed Peter’s little faith as the reason he fell in the water.
2) when the disciples could not cast out an evil spirit, Jesus was annoyed with them and said they could not do it because of their little faith. If little faith was enough, why could they not accomplish casting out the evil spirit.

The capacity for great faith does not exist in us! This type of faith is bestowed on us by God’s Spirit through Christ Jesus, as we digest the gospel of Christ - eat His words - Jesus told the disciples my words are Spirit…

My main issue is sometimes we say things about salvation that does not address the true requirements for salvation. It is not enough to say we believe in Jesus; there is much, much more that secures our salvation, and it is following the exact truth of the gospel of Christ, the power of the gospel, that is the power of God unto salvation. Leaving out the requirements of the gospel, we cannot obtain salvation.

We must look to experience. That is the only way we know we have been given the Holy Spirit - the Spirit bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, Romans 8:16 KJV - this is an actual experience

We sit in heavenly places in Christ Jesus - this is an actual experience through the power of the Spirit Who raises our consciousness to where we are placed in another dimension- from putting off the flesh, the old man, to walking in the new man in Christ Jesus.

It’s not enough to say we believe, we must be conformed into the image of Christ - the power of the gospel manifests these realities in our life, by God’s Spirit.

The same Spirit that raised Christ from the dead must be in us in order for us to be raised at Christ’s return. Through the Spirit we must please the Husbandman Who desires the first fruits - That is, we must produce fruit - the Fruit of the Spirit, bestowed upon us by the Spirit through many trials - the furnace of affliction.

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Well what about you not adding into accounts in The Bible parts that are not actually there. As an example, take you saying the people in Matthew 7:23 had believed in Jesus for eternal life. When there is not a singe sentence saying these people had believed in Jesus for eternal life. The only thing the verses say is they did thing in the name of Jesus and that is not the same as believing in The Name of Jesus for eternal life.

“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’



An example of a contemporary day Matthew 7, would be people who say they went to church in the name of Jesus, or were baptized in the name of Jesus, or repented of their sins in the name of Jesus, etc.... But never actually did believe in the person Jesus, for Eternal Life.

 

[biblelesson]

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Well what about you not adding into accounts in The Bible parts that are not actually there. As an example, take you saying the people in Matthew 7:23 had believed in Jesus for eternal life. When there is not a singe sentence saying these people had believed in Jesus for eternal life. The only thing the verses say is they did thing in the name of Jesus and that is not the same as believing in The Name of Jesus for eternal life.

“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’



An example of a contemporary day Matthew 7, would be people who say they went to church in the name of Jesus, or were baptized in the name of Jesus, or repented of their sins in the name of Jesus, etc.... But never actually did believe in the person Jesus, for Eternal Life.

The people in Matthew did believe they would receive salvation in Christ. This is why Jesus spoke this parable, because a lot of people think they are going to receive eternal life because they say they believe on Jesus. These people were saying to Jesus because of what they did, they should receive eternal life. They think if they feed the poor, give to the needy, keep the sabbath day, and even keep the feast days, as some do, their salvation in Jesus is secure. These people strongly believe that doing those things makes them righteous, and their own righteousness saves them unto eternal life. But without the Holy Spirit in us, we cannot be saved no matter how much we profess to believe in Jesus. It is not of works, but God’s Grace we are saved.

I know a person who said they only believe certain things in the Bible because men wrote the Bible - they believe they have the right to dismiss large portions of the Bible, but this person professes to be a Christian and believe in Jesus and goes to church every Sunday. They will argue they should receive eternal life.

 

[d taylor]

The people in Matthew did believe they would receive salvation in Christ. This is why Jesus spoke this parable, because a lot of people think they are going to receive eternal life because they say they believe on Jesus. These people were saying to Jesus because of what they did, they should receive eternal life. They think if they feed the poor, give to the needy, keep the sabbath day, and even keep the feast days, as some do, their salvation in Jesus is secure. These people strongly believe that doing those things makes them righteous, and their own righteousness saves them unto eternal life. But without the Holy Spirit in us, we cannot be saved no matter how much we profess to believe in Jesus. It is not of works, but God’s Grace we are saved.

I know a person who said they only believe certain things in the Bible because men wrote the Bible - they believe they have the right to dismiss large portions of the Bible, but this person professes to be a Christian and believe in Jesus and goes to church every Sunday. They will argue they should receive eternal life.

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What are you reading, Matthew 7 is not a parable. The parables of Jesus do not start till chapter 13.

As for these people you know i do not know them so i have no idea what they believe or what they have placed their faith in. But if they have believed in Jesus for Eternal Life, then they are a permanent born again child of God.

 

[biblelesson]

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What are you reading, Matthew 7 is not a parable. The parables of Jesus do not start till chapter 13.

As for these people you know i do not know them so i have no idea what they believe or what they have placed their faith in. But if they have believed in Jesus for Eternal Life, then they are a permanent born again child of God.

Matthew 7:13 was a warning to those who professed Jesus, but depended on works.

So, how does a person believe on Jesus for eternal life if eternal life comes by way of Jesus?

Another way of asking this question; if eternal life is given only by One, and that is Christ, then how does my believing on Christ affords me the responsibility of giving myself eternal life?

John 3:15 KJV
That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

We are commanded to believe on Him - and through our believe, we receive eternal life from Him. Yet, to believe on Him is not simply a mental agreement that He is the savior and my sins are forgiven. It’s more than that! To believe on Him is to believe all of Him, to include obeying His words, which we learn we cannot obey Him due to our sinful nature. However, He, by His Spirit, must live in us so that we receive His Power to obey, and to be conformed to Him, His image, to express Him in us - then we are children of God!

This is why the gospel tells us to put off the old man and walk according to the Spirit, among other commands - it is the gospel of Christ that is the Power of God unto salvation.

So, how does a person believe unto eternal life without understanding the gospel requirements for salvation? So to say we are to believe unto eternal life is incorrect.

People cannot just say because they believe on Christ they are believing unto eternal life - then they would be giving themselves the credit for eternal life. But, eternal life don’t belong to man, eternal life is given - and without the Spirit of Christ, we cannot receive eternal life.

Through Jesus death and resurrection, and our believing on Him, we are sealed by the Holy Spirit, for our inheritance into the Kingdom of God.

Without this sealing by the Holy Spirit, we are not the sons of God. Some who say they believe are sealed - they are the wheat. Some who say they believe are not sealed - they are the tares.

Jesus said let the wheat grow with the tares - and the angels will separate them in the end.

We can talk, preach, cry, try to be good, feed the poor, do all manner of good works, from now until dooms day, and without the Spirit in us - the Spirit that raised Christ Jesus from the dead, we will not receive eternal life. It is by the Spirit that we are sons of God:

John 1;12 KJV, "But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name".

Romans 8:14 KJV, “For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God".

When we speak about eternal life, we must let people know the importance of having the Spirit, because without the Spirit we cannot belong to Jesus no matter how much we profess him and tell ourselves our belief is unto eternal life - Romans 8:9 KJV…”Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.”

 

[d taylor]

Matthew 7:13 was a warning to those who professed Jesus, but depended on works.

So, how does a person believe on Jesus for eternal life if eternal life comes by way of Jesus?

Another way of asking this question; if eternal life is given only by One, and that is Christ, then how does my believing on Christ affords me the responsibility of giving myself eternal life?

John 3:15 KJV
That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

We are commanded to believe on Him - and through our believe, we receive eternal life from Him. Yet, to believe on Him is not simply a mental agreement that He is the savior and my sins are forgiven. It’s more than that! To believe on Him is to believe all of Him, to include obeying His words, which we learn we cannot obey Him due to our sinful nature. However, He, by His Spirit, must live in us so that we receive His Power to obey, and to be conformed to Him, His image, to express Him in us - then we are children of God!

This is why the gospel tells us to put off the old man and walk according to the Spirit, among other commands - it is the gospel of Christ that is the Power of God unto salvation.

So, how does a person believe unto eternal life without understanding the gospel requirements for salvation? So to say we are to believe unto eternal life is incorrect.

People cannot just say because they believe on Christ they are believing unto eternal life - then they would be giving themselves the credit for eternal life. But, eternal life don’t belong to man, eternal life is given - and without the Spirit of Christ, we cannot receive eternal life.

Through Jesus death and resurrection, and our believing on Him, we are sealed by the Holy Spirit, for our inheritance into the Kingdom of God.

Without this sealing by the Holy Spirit, we are not the sons of God. Some who say they believe are sealed - they are the wheat. Some who say they believe are not sealed - they are the tares.

Jesus said let the wheat grow with the tares - and the angels will separate them in the end.

We can talk, preach, cry, try to be good, feed the poor, do all manner of good works, from now until dooms day, and without the Spirit in us - the Spirit that raised Christ Jesus from the dead, we will not receive eternal life. It is by the Spirit that we are sons of God:

John 1;12 KJV, "But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name".

Romans 8:14 KJV, “For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God".

When we speak about eternal life, we must let people know the importance of having the Spirit, because without the Spirit we cannot belong to Jesus no matter how much we profess him and tell ourselves our belief is unto eternal life - Romans 8:9 KJV…”Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.”

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You must be some kind of Calvinist and believe in that nonsense, if so i am not going to continue the discussion. It is a waste of time.

I say that because of what you wrote here.
People cannot just say because they believe on Christ they are believing unto eternal life - then they would be giving themselves the credit for eternal life. But, eternal life don’t belong to man, eternal life is given - and without the Spirit of Christ, we cannot receive eternal life.

 

[biblelesson]

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You must be some kind of Calvinist and believe in that nonsense, if so i am not going to continue the discussion. It is a waste of time.

I say that because of what you wrote here.
People cannot just say because they tbelieve on Christ they are believing unto eternal life - then they would be giving themselves the credit for eternal life. But, eternal life don’t belong to man, eternal life is given - and without the Spirit of Christ, we cannot receive eternal life.

Can you explain? Because I provided scriptures in my post, so I’m not clear what you are addressing.

You said we believe unto eternal life, but this is your phrase. The Bible does not say that. We believe on Him to receive eternal life, big difference.

If I have made a mistake, please show me the scripture.

If you misquote scripture, is it fair to accuse me of being a Calvinist, instead of providing scripture to back up what you are saying. If you are not able to use the sound scripture, what is your rationale for opposing scripture.

 

[d taylor]

Can you explain? Because I provided scriptures in my post, so I’m not clear what you are addressing.

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Explain what you do not know what you wrote, i posted it in italics.

You stated a person can not believe in Jesus they must have the Spirit of Christ to believe. So if that is what you believe i am not going to waste more time on you and your beliefs.

 

[biblelesson]

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Explain what you do not know what you wrote, i posted it in italics.

You stated a person can not believe in Jesus they must have the Spirit of Christ to believe. So if that is what you believe i am not going to waste more time on you and your beliefs.

No, I did not say that at all. Read my post along with the scriptures I provided. I’m trying to help you see what you have said is not based on scripture, you have made up of the phrase “we believe unto eternal life,” which is not scriptural.

I ask again, if it is scriptural, then where is it in the Bible?

 

[d taylor]

No, I did not say that at all. Read my post along with the scriptures I provided. I’m trying to help you see what you have said is not based on scripture, you have made up of the phrase “we believe unto eternal life,” which is not scriptural.

I ask again, if it is scriptural, then where is it in the Bible?

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Again here is your writing

without the Spirit of Christ, we cannot receive eternal life.

 

[d taylor]

No, I did not say that at all. Read my post along with the scriptures I provided. I’m trying to help you see what you have said is not based on scripture, you have made up of the phrase “we believe unto eternal life,” which is not scriptural.

I ask again, if it is scriptural, then where is it in the Bible?

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“Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.
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Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life.
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Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?”
She said to Him, “Yes, Lord, I believe that You are the Christ, the Son of God, who is to come into the world.”

 

[biblelesson]

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Again here is your writing

without the Spirit of Christ, we cannot receive eternal life.

Romans 8:9 KJV
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

John 3:5 KJV
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

 

[Brother Del]

A brother takes the time to write a heartfelt testimony.

His thread is immediately hijacked by a couple of geniuses in debate.

Welcome to christian forums.

 

[d taylor]

Romans 8:9 KJV
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

John 3:5 KJV
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

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This simple truth seems to escape you. A unbeliever is a person who has not the Spirit of Christ.

A believer is a person who has received The Spirit of Christ. They received The Spirit of Christ at the very moment they believed in Jesus for Eternal Life.