This is going to sound un-educated, but where in the Bible does it say that...

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AJB4

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The Bible says that it is "profitable":

2 Timothy 3:16
- All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.

Profitable means:

1. Yielding profit; remunerative: a profitable deal.
2. Beneficial or useful.

The original Greek word used in that passage was ōphelimos, which means:

helpful or serviceable, that is, advantageous.

Check this if you don't believe me.

Going on, let's check out the rest of the verse.

2 Timothy 3:17 - That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

Now, put two and two together, and it's not difficult to see, that the Bible says that it is beneficial, helpful, and advantageous to making a man perfect, but doesn't make a man perfect by itself.

It's interesting to note also, that in Jesus' time, and even just coming out of the first century, a lot of churches would have had no scripture, or at the very most, few scriptures scraped together from all over the place. Thus, they would have relied on much more than just the scriptures to keeping the church alive (things such as oral tradition and the early church fathers, who were directly taught by the Apostles themselves). The Bible also says many times that not everything that Jesus and the Apostles did was written in it (2 John 1:12, 3 John 1:13-14, John 21:25, John 20:30).

So, one could come the conclusion that Jesus did, indeed make Peter pope. Just because it is outside the scope of scripture (which admits that not everything Jesus did is written in it), it doesn't mean that it didn't happen.

NOTE: I am not Catholic, though am almost on the verge of becoming Greek Orthodox, which is similar.
 
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TheCosmicGospel

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Alex, I choose Paul for 2000. Early enough? Luther, the reformer, did not invent, but turned the horse around and got back to the teachings that Christ instituted with His own appointed Apostles.

And why did Jesus tell Peter to feed His sheep? Peter had denied Him three times, so He re-instituted Peter cause he needed it. Now how that makes him Pope, you gotta tell me again.

And tell me how Paul fits in with this whole scheme. Still waiting on that one. Petrified? Petered out? For Pete's sake!

Cheers,
Cosmic
 
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TheListener

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Its amazing how much words can be twisted around just so we can reject authority.

if Jesus was reinstating Peter because Peter denied him three times, then how do you interpret the Matthew 16 verses "You are Peter and on this rock I will build my church and the gates of hades will not prevail against it. Whatever you bind on earth will be bound in Heaven...etc"

Spin something for that verse too.
 
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IamAdopted

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"The Pope is the Vicar of Christ."

That would be a very high office indeed and one of immense proportions.

A vicar is someone "subordinate" to the Master and Ruler.

A vicar would be one to represent His Master's wishes and speak "for" the Master. But when he speaks "instead" of the Master, has not then the Vicar crossed his own boundary as the "Vicar"?

And if Peter was the first Pope, shouldn't he be given the impression to as one to be listened to and not added to, or as oft is the case, even contradicted?

And just what do you do with that upstart Paul who was never under the first Pope? If the NT were a Western movie, Paul would have been Wyatt Earp and Peter would have been the deputy at best tryin not to get in the way of things.

My pastor speaks for Christ too. When is the Pope going to start?

Cheers,
Cosmic
Why would we need a vicar of Christ when He left us His written word? One whom the Father breathed out for us His children so we would know HIm the only true God? Jesus never gave His headship to anyone.. He still has it.. And as for the Keys.. Read Revelations. Jesus does not open a door with Keys.. HE OPENS A BOOK. He also is seen in revelations having the Keys.
7"To the angel of the church in Philadelphia write:
These are the words of him who is holy and true, who holds the key of David. What he opens no one can shut, and what he shuts no one can open. 8I know your deeds. See, I have placed before you an open door that no one can shut. I know that you have little strength, yet you have kept my word and have not denied my name.
18I am the Living One; I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.
so what exacty did Jesus give to Peter?
 
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Rick Otto

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"You tell me where in the Bible it says "Everything you need to know is ONLY found in the Bible" and I'll show you where it says you must have a pope. :D"

>>>You got a problem with "One-Stop-Shopping"?^_^
Hi Listener!

Do you realize you were just one letter ahead of saying...
"Its amazing how much words can be twisted around just so we can erect authority."?
^_^
.........................................................................
"So all the Christians, dating back to the first century were wrong, and the so called "reformers" who lived 1500 years after Jesus' earthly ministry were right?"

>>>What's with the "all or none" formulating?
Augustine was "Calvinist". Trust him. He's "Early Church",... but come to think of it, so was Judas.
:cool:
 
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IgnatiusOfAntioch

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that we should have a pope? or where in it does it evidence that Peter was the first pope?

Where does it mention the Bible?
Where is the term the Trinity in the Bible?
Where in the Bible is the term The Incarnation?

Do you believe in these things?
 
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Isaiah 53

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>>>Augustine was "Calvinist". Trust him. He's "Early Church",... but come to think of it, so was Judas.
:cool:



"Number the bishops from the See of Peter itself. And in that order of Fathers see who has succeeded whom. That is the rock against which the gates of hell do not prevail" Augustine, Psalm against the Party of Donatus, 18 (A.D. 393).


"I am held in the communion of the Catholic Church by...and by the succession of bishops from the very seat of Peter, to whom the Lord, after His resurrection commended His sheep to be fed up to the present episcopate." Augustine, Against the Letter of Mani, 5 (A.D. 395).


“Carthage was also near the countries over the sea, and distinguished by illustrious renown, so that it had a bishop of more than ordinary influence, who could afford to disregard a number of conspiring enemies because he saw himself joined by letters of communion to the Roman Church, in which the supremacy of an apostolic chair has always flourished.” Augustine, To Glorius et.al, Epistle 43:7 (A.D. 397).

"The chair of the Roman Church, in which Peter sat, and in which Anastasius sits today." Augustine, Against the Letters of Petillian, 2:51 (A.D. 402).

http://www.scripturecatholic.com/primacy_of_peter.html#tradition_II
 
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ScottBot

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Augustine had writings which point to the supremacy of Rome. :D

If you want references I'm sure a better read Catholic can answer that, alternatively read the book I suggested above.
No need to provide. They will be cast of an non-biblical, therefore non-binding.
 
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ScottBot

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"You tell me where in the Bible it says "Everything you need to know is ONLY found in the Bible" and I'll show you where it says you must have a pope. :D"

>>>You got a problem with "One-Stop-Shopping"?^_^
Hi Listener!

Do you realize you were just one letter ahead of saying...
"Its amazing how much words can be twisted around just so we can erect authority."?
^_^
.........................................................................
"So all the Christians, dating back to the first century were wrong, and the so called "reformers" who lived 1500 years after Jesus' earthly ministry were right?"

>>>What's with the "all or none" formulating?
Augustine was "Calvinist". Trust him. He's "Early Church",... but come to think of it, so was Judas.
:cool:
Augustine was Calvinist? How does a predecessor FOLLOW the successor? Calvn drew from Augustine and the influence flowed from Augustine to Calvin, not vice versa.

The truer arguement would be that Calvin was Augustinian. But since Augustine was a strong proponent of the Catholic heirarchy, this predecessor/Successor relationship seems to get juxtaposed for the sake of making an arguement, however flawed it might be.
 
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PaulAckermann

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People who start out a sentence "Where is the Bible does it say that ...?" are in a self-contradiction.

I have studied both the Old Testament and the New Testament, and in neither one does it ever say that EVERYTHING we believe must be in the Bible.

So since the Bible never said that everything we believe must in the Bible, then this person's assumption that everything we believe must be in the Bible is itself not in the Bible. So since this assumption is not in the Bible, then accord to this assumption, this assumption should not be believed.
 
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HisKid1973

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People who start out a sentence "Where is the Bible does it say that ...?" are in a self-contradiction..

I think there is plenty enough for me to find Christ, give Him Lordship of my life and mature in the faith..pax..Kim
 
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