This is a long set of teachings broken up into about 20 minute sections on the big picture view to understanding Christian Universal Redemption.

[Jeff Saunders]

Understood in the light of all the NT, there is no Biblical presentation of universal salvation.

Ok then you tell me what Acts 3:21" In Christ Jesus is the restoration of all things" means .
It doesn't say he made a way possible for restoration, but that it was already a done deal.

 

[Clare73]

Ok then you tell me what Acts 3:21" In Christ Jesus is the restoration of all things" means .
It doesn't say he made a way possible for restoration, but that it was already a done deal.

So that's how that heresy works. . .through misquoting of the NT.

Ac 3:21 actually reads:

"He must remain in heaven until the time comes for God to restore all things."

That is the end of time at the second coming (1 Th 4:16-17).

And the word "Christ" is not in Ac 3:21.

That's a lot of mishandling of Scripture . .'nuf said.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

The difference is do you believe we are now at union with God because of Jesus or are we separated and need to get back on or by our own effort, did Jesus really concur sin and death for and in all his creation or did he just make it possible if we do the correct things because our will is stronger than Gods will to save his cosmos as stated in scripture. This video series shows how we are at union with God because of Jesus and that is all his creation not just those who can save themselves by having enough faith or say the correct prayer or believe the correct doctrine on how to get back to God.

whuh????????????????????? I'm not going to continue with this thread. Carry on as you were, Jeff.

 

[Jeff Saunders]

So that's how that heresy works. . .through misquoting of the NT.

Ac 3:21 actually reads:

"He must remain in heaven until the time comes for God to restore all things."

That is the end of time at the second coming (1 Th 4:16-17).

'nuf said.

Yes that is one way heresy works, but do you not understand the verse ? When God restores all things is when Jesus comes at the end and all things are complete. What do you think it says in the version you uses "until the time comes" which means it hasn't come yet but we are still waiting. The heresy comes in not believing God will restore all things, not some or a little but all. Most people do not believe God is going to restore all things.

 

[Jeff Saunders]

whuh????????????????????? I'm not going to continue with this thread. Carry on as you were, Jeff.

So I guess you do not believe Jesus brought union?

 

[2PhiloVoid]

So I guess you do not believe Jesus brought union?

It's usually best not to infer or insinuate, or speak for others, when nothing specific has been said one way or the other.

Doing that is a quick way to get ignored. So....................don't do that.

 

[Clare73]

Yes that is one way heresy works, but do you not understand the verse ? When God restores all things is when Jesus comes at the end and all things are complete.

That Biblical fact does not authorize you to change the verse, as well as add the word "Christ" which is not in the text.

Exceedingly loose handling of Scripture. . .the source of error.

 

[Jeff Saunders]

It's usually best not to infer or insinuate, or speak for others, when nothing specific has been said one way or the other.

Doing that is a quick way to get ignored. So....................don't do that.

I asked a question, is that not what this forum is for?

 

[Jeff Saunders]

That Biblical fact does not authorize you to change the verse, as well as add the word "Christ" which is not in the text.

Exceedingly loose handling of Scripture. . .the source of error.

Is Jesus not the Christ?
You still have not answered the question, do you believe that God will restore all things or not?

 

[2PhiloVoid]

I asked a question, is that not what this forum is for?

You asked a question in an awkward way and they make pretenses about 'how' and 'why' you do so. And most importantly, you seem to have missed the point of my first post and steam rolled right over it. When people do that, I can't take their intentions (or their agendas) very seriously.

Here's not what going to happen: you're not going to catch me, of all people, on some pseudo-horns of a dilemma. So, you can pack that away real quick like.

As for 'universalism,' if that's what you want to believe, go for it. I fully realize that not everyone can see soteriology or eschatology from an Inclusivist point of view. You apparently don't or can't, and it is what it is.

 

[Hentenza]

All salvation depicted and taught in scripture is conditional on just one thing, believe in Jesus Christ.

The basics are:

John 3:16
““For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3‬:‭16‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life. | New American Standard Bible - NASB (NASB2020) | Download The Bible App Now

“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life.

bible.com

Conversely, everyone that does not believe in Him will perish.

John 3:
“The one who believes in Him is not judged; the one who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3‬:‭18‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

John 3:18 The one who believes in Him is not judged; the one who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. | New American Standard Bible - NASB (NASB2020) | Download The Bible App Now

The one who believes in Him is not judged; the one who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.

bible.com

No belief in Christ no salvation.

Romans 1
“Therefore there is now no condemnation at all for those who are in Christ Jesus.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8‬:‭1‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Romans 8:1 Therefore there is now no condemnation at all for those who are in Christ Jesus. | New American Standard Bible - NASB (NASB2020) | Download The Bible App Now

Therefore there is now no condemnation at all for those who are in Christ Jesus.

bible.com

Conversely, there is condemnation for those who are NOT in Christ.

Ephesians 2
“For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭2‬:‭8‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not of yourselves, it is the gift of God | New American Standard Bible - NASB (NASB2020) | Download The Bible App Now

For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not of yourselves, it is the gift of God

bible.com

No faith, no grace.

All need to be read under this condition. God did send His Son to save the whole world but only those that believe will be saved.

Universalism is not supported by scripture. Only those ignoring the obvious and interpreting the Bible outside of the Bible by perverting the verses will be lead to error.

 

[Hentenza]

Is Jesus not the Christ?
You still have not answered the question, do you believe that God will restore all things or not?

Why do you continue to justify error by ignoring the context of the NT? You can’t pick and choose which verses “seem” to support your position in light of many that do not. The Bible does not contradict itself.

 

[Jeff Saunders]

You asked a question in an awkward way and they make pretenses about 'how' and 'why' you do so. And most importantly, you seem to have missed the point of my first post and steam rolled right over it. When people do that, I can't take their intentions (or their agendas) very seriously.

Here's not what going to happen: you're not going to catch me, of all people, on some pseudo-horns of a dilemma. So, you can pack that away real quick like.

As for 'universalism,' if that's what you want to believe, go for it. I fully realize that not everyone can see soteriology or eschatology from an Inclusivist point of view. You apparently don't or can't, and it is what it is.

Its a simple question did Jesus death bring mankind, actually the whole cosmos into union with God/Jesus/Holy Spirit ?
Or do you believe that man is separate from God/Jesus/ Holy Spirit or do we need to do our part to get back to God/Jesus/Holy Spirit.
Its a question to see how you view what Jesus did that's all.

 

[Jeff Saunders]

Why do you continue to justify error by ignoring the context of the NT? You can’t pick and choose which verses “seem” to support your position in light of many that do not. The Bible does not contradict itself.

Ok tell me the error of believing that God will restore all things, is that not what the text says ?
If you do not believe this as written, then what is the context of God saying he will restore all things?
Why do you believe the " eternal Hell" verses in English trump all the verses that say God will reconcile his cosmos to himself?
Why not start with God reconciling the cosmos to himself and try to see how the " eternal hell" texts fit into that.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Its a simple question did Jesus death bring mankind, actually the whole cosmos into union with God/Jesus/Holy Spirit ?
Or do you believe that man is separate from God/Jesus/ Holy Spirit or do we need to do our part to get back to God/Jesus/Holy Spirit.
Its a question to see how you view what Jesus did that's all.

Not until you acknowledge what I posted about T.F. Torrance. If you can't do that, then we're done.

And I'm pretty sure that being that I come from a completely different line of theological 'think' about the Christian faith, we probably won't even make it to first base and get all hugs and kisses over 'universalism.'

So, have a blessed day regardless.

 

[Hentenza]

Ok tell me the error of believing that God will restore all things, is that not what the text says ?

You are taking the verse out of context.

If you do not believe this as written, then what is the context of God saying he will restore all things?

Why do you not believe other verses that do not support your position as written?

 

[Clare73]

Yes that is one way heresy works, but do you not understand the verse ? When God restores all things is when Jesus comes at the end and all things are complete. What do you think it says in the version you uses "until the time comes" which means it hasn't come yet but we are still waiting. The heresy comes in not believing God will restore all things, not some or a little but all. Most people do not believe God is going to restore all things.

Heresy is not unblelief, they are two different things.

 

[Jeff Saunders]

Heresy is not unblelief, they are two different things.

Yes it is unbelief, heresy in the Greek Bible means to have a choice, you have the choice to believe God or the spirit of this world the choice is yours.
If you do not believe the truth about God/Jesus/ Holy Spirit, and what they have done, you have not had metanoia, the change of thinking.
What the Trinity has done is truth whether you believe it or not, heresy is not believing the truth of what the Trinity has already done.
That is what scripture calls metanoia, to change your thinking to the correct thinking about what God has done.
So yes heresy is unbelief, if you believe the correct thing you are not in heresy.

 

[Clare73]

Is Jesus not the Christ?
You still have not answered the question, do you believe that God will restore all things or not?

I believe the word of God.

Yes it is unbelief, heresy in the Greek Bible means to have a choice,

Yes, "heresy" (haireis) is from the Greek word haireomai, which is "to choose."
It is that which is chosen, an opinion, which is substituted for submission to the power of truth, which is the heresy.

you have the choice to believe God or the spirit of this world the choice is yours.
If you do not believe the truth about God/Jesus/ Holy Spirit, and what they have done, you have not had metanoia, the change of thinking.
What the Trinity has done is truth whether you believe it or not, heresy is not believing the truth of what the Trinity has already done.
That is what scripture calls metanoia, to change your thinking to the correct thinking about what God has done.
So yes heresy is unbelief, if you believe the correct thing you are not in heresy.

"Heresy" is what is believed( e.g., Jesus is not God), it is not unbelief itself.

"In heresy" is believing that which is contrary to Scripture.

 

[Jeff Saunders]

I believe the word of God.

Yes, "heresy" (haireis) is from the Greek word haireomai, which is "to choose."
It is that which is chosen, an opinion, which is substituted for submission to the power of truth, which is the heresy.

"Heresy" is what is believed( e.g., Jesus is not God), it is not unbelief itself.

"In heresy" is believing that which is contrary to Scripture.

i am glad to hear you say you believe Jesus and that he will restore all things.
I don't understand your logic if heresy is not unbelief, unbelief is just believing something that is not true, no one believes nothing, everyone believes something and that belief that is not in line with Jesus then its heresy.