This generation

[TribulationSigns]

He does judge rightly. It’s your view that has been shown to be wrong.

With what? Your private opinions? If you think you have, please show me the post then if you are honest.

I can see that you have not yet refuted anything I posted with Scripture and a correct understanding of generation. Based on the posts you made on this thread alone, because of your indoctrination, you come with preconceived ideas about the Scriptures in question even before they are presented to you.

 

[rwb]

Yep. All speaking of the same thing, the last of that age. Just the 2 Timothy reference should prove that.

The last days began with the first advent of Christ and will not end until He comes again in glory on the last day when the last trumpet sounds.

 

[Hammster]

With what? Your private opinions? If you think you have, please show me the post then if you are honest.

I can see that you have not yet refuted anything I posted with Scripture and a correct understanding of generation. Based on the posts you made on this thread alone, because of your indoctrination, you come with preconceived ideas about the Scriptures in question even before they are presented to you.

I’ll just copy/paste this so I don’t have to retype it.

Again, focusing on the word “generation” and ignoring the pronoun “this” is taking things in context. Posting the definition of generation, and ignoring the pronoun, is ignoring the context.

 

[Hammster]

The last days began with the first advent of Christ and will not end until He comes again in glory on the last day when the last trumpet sounds.

Then the time references are completely meaningless.

 

[TribulationSigns]

The last days began with the first advent of Christ and will not end until He comes again in glory on the last day when the last trumpet sounds.

That is right, RWB.

The last days of Isaiah chapter 2 prophesy the New Testament dispensation that started with the coming of Christ.

Hebrews 1:2

• "Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;"

"The last days" here illustrates that the Kingdom of Christ prophesied in the Old Testament had come, and this is what is being foretold in Isaiah chapter 2. It's not a future reference nor 70AD theory, it's what took place with Christ's first advent.

I will explain a bit here...

Isa 2:3
(3) And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.

The house of God "IS" is the congregation.

1st Timothy 3:15

• "But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth."

In Isaiah chapter 2 again we see the mountain is revealed to be the "kingdom" or house of the God of Jacob. And the many people who come to be taught of God (1st John 2:27) are the nations who flow into His house in the millennial reign of Christ, which started at His first advent. Such as also prophesied in Psalms 86.

Psalms 86:9

• "All nations whom thou hast made shall come and worship before thee, O Lord; and shall glorify thy name.
• For thou art great, and doest wondrous things: thou art God alone.
• Teach me thy way, O LORD; I will walk in thy truth: unite my heart to fear thy name."

And how does the Lord "teach" the servants of God his ways, as Isaiah 2:3 also declared? By the Holy Spirit poured out at Pentecost He teaches us of his ways, so that we can walk in his paths. It was already fulfilled in the Kingdom of Christ as out of Mount Zion the law has gone forth, and the Word of the LORD from Jerusalem. Fulfilled! Christ teaching us of His ways was established as a reality when He came to Israel and preached the gospel from Jerusalem, and taught us of His ways that we might abandon the crooked paths and walk in His paths. Even as the rebellious leaders of Christ's own congregation (without even realizing it) prophesied of this in their rejection of Him.

John 7:35

• "Then said the Jews among themselves, Whither will he go, that we shall not find him? will he go unto the dispersed among the Gentiles, and teach the Gentiles?"

Israel was blinded, eyes that they would not see that they would not find Him. And indeed Christ did go to teach the Gentiles after He (their foundation stone), was rejected, where they to this day have not found Him. Well has John 7:35 prophesied? From that mountain (Zion and the Kingdom Christ established) from Jerusalem, the gospel went to all the world just as prophesied in Isaiah. That is when the word and the law of the Lord went out from Jerusalem, that we might walk in His paths. All of this was fulfilled with the first advent of Christ.

Of course, this is difficult for those indoctrinated into the idea that Isaiah 2 is some future fulfillment where Lambs and Wolves frolic around together in heaven, nevertheless, it is true. The lamb is unafraid of the wolf not because the wolf becomes a herbivore in heaven, but because the Lamb and wolf are synonyms in God's word for His Servants (lamb) and false prophets/christs (wolf) who would devour them. The wolf cannot hurt the lamb because as God declared, "they will not hurt nor destroy in My Holy Mountain." It is because there in this kingdom of Christ is the peace and safety of Israel. Not in strong walls and a great military, only in Christ Jesus.

Luke chapter 10 verses 19 and 20 also give us a similar illustration of this same principle of how with the coming of Christ's Kingdom they cannot be hurt by the enemies of God. The Lord sends out 'seventy' (a spiritually significant number) disciples with the gospel to witness in twos (signifying truthful witness) with this information and instruction.

Luke 10:19

• ""Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you."

Is the Lord giving His servants the power to go around the countryside and be immune to being hurt by enemies that are literal snakes and scorpions? Come on. No, not at all. The serpent and Scorpion signify and represent the power of Satan, just as the wolf does. If you walk through the desert, will physical/literal snakes and scorpions clear a path for you and not hurt you because you are a servant of God? Leave that to Hollywood. This is not what Christ is teaching here. Being bitten by a snake is not the force of the enemy that Christ gives us power over. The power of the enemy Jesus speaks about here is the power of that Scorpion from the pit and that old Serpent Satan. Those who are spiritually serpents and scorpions (those of Satan) are the ones who God is teaching that cannot harm (deceive) us. Yes, even today we have some misguided souls calling themselves Christians going around handling snakes because they can't see the forest for the trees. The truth is, God has given us safety from the antichrist spirit Satan, who desires to deceive, seduce and devour us.

1st Peter 3:12-13

• "For the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and his ears are open unto their prayers: but the face of the Lord is against them that do evil.
• And who is he that will harm you, if ye be followers of that which is good?"

The answer to this rhetorical question is that there is no one who can hurt or destroy you when you are a follower of Christ. So when we ask, what does the Lamb not being afraid of the Wolf in the Lord's holy mountain mean? It means the servant of God cannot be hurt by the wolf, nor the wolves in sheep's clothing that are among the lambs. It's not really that difficult to discern because Christ used this same vernacular with us very plainly during His ministry.

Matthew 10:16

• "Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves."

There is the answer to the relevant question concerning the mountain of the Lord, and also the passages that follow verses 2 and 3. Christ didn't send us out among wolves to be hurt, He assures that they will not hurt nor destroy us as we abide in His Holy Mountain. Again, not because the wolf has a new nature, but because we are sealed, secured in Christ, and cannot be spiritually hurt by Satan or his minions. Therefore, these is the last days. This is the millennial kingdom reign and peace prophesied in Isaiah is the peace of Christ, and the cessation of the sword of warfare, turned into another job of cultivating the Lord's plantings, is by the New Spirit of Christ within us as we ar reconciled with God. This started at Pentecost until the Last Day, the whole New Testament period because the old testament congregation has already fallen along with the death of their prince, their kingdom was taken and given to the church. Nothing to do with the 70AD imagination of men.

 

[TribulationSigns]

I’ll just copy/paste this so I don’t have to retype it.

Again, focusing on the word “generation” and ignoring the pronoun “this” is taking things in context. Posting the definition of generation, and ignoring the pronoun, is ignoring the context.

I never ignored "this generation" at all as I have explained in depth. It still speaks about the same generation whether you like it or not. I have shown you Scriptures. What about yours? I specifically asked that you show me the post where you have refuted my position with Scripture. Copy and paste your opinion or denial does not count.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Then the time references are completely meaningless.

According to who? You or God? Be prepared to provide Scripture to support your claim. Private opinion is meaningless. Try to remember that in mind.

 

[Hammster]

I never ignored "this generation" at all as I have explained in depth. It still speaks about the same generation whether you like it or not. I have shown you Scriptures. What about yours? I specifically asked that you show me the post where you have refuted my position with Scripture. Copy and paste your opinion or denial does not count.

See the OP.

 

[Hammster]

According to who? You or God? Be prepared to provide Scripture to support your claim. Private opinion is meaningless. Try to remember that in mind.

When the writers wrote things like soon, near, these last days, etc., they were writing to contemporaries. They were not writing to an audience two thousand years later. So John, for instance, says “last hour”. The audience would have no reason to think that he would be referring to a two+ millennium gap. If he was, why would they even care about what he was writing?

So once again, it is best to use proper hermeneutics and understand their writings like those in the first century would understand them.

 

[DavidPT]

That is right, RWB.

The last days of Isaiah chapter 2 prophesy the New Testament dispensation that started with the coming of Christ.

Since you brought up Isaiah 2 and are applying it to the here and now, well there is this part to consider---and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more(Isaiah 2:4)


What I have to wonder then, of those that interpret it in that manner, like you do in this post, how many are or were enlisted in the military at the time since that obviously contradicts how they are interpreting---neither shall they learn war any more? As if it makes sense to interpret it like that and then not live by example but instead be enlisted in the military at the time. IOW, instead of practicing what you preach, in this case, don't practice what you preach.

To be enlisted in the military does not equal learn war no more, not even remotely. And besides, that verse also says nation shall not lift up sword against nation, which contradicts what Jesus said if Isaiah 2:4 is already true when Jesus said the following below would be what to expect.

Matthew 24:7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

Apparently, one is to believe---nation shall not lift up sword against nation---means this---For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom--rather than contradicts this.

 

[TribulationSigns]

See the OP.

Your OP is not a refutation. It confirmed my position. Either you didn’t read or remember my response to your OP earlier.

Try again.

 

[DavidPT]

When the writers wrote things like soon, near, these last days, etc., they were writing to contemporaries. They were not writing to an audience two thousand years later. So John, for instance, says “last hour”. The audience would have no reason to think that he would be referring to a two+ millennium gap. If he was, why would they even care about what he was writing?

So once again, it is best to use proper hermeneutics and understand their writings like those in the first century would understand them.

As to the last hour, that is obviously not meaning a literal hour, and that I would think you at least agree with that. Since it is not meaning a literal hour, that means this last hour can begin 2000 years and we still being in this same last hour 2000 years later, the same way the last days began 2000 years ago and we are still in these same last days yet today.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Since you brought up Isaiah 2 and are applying it to the here and now, well there is this part to consider---and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more(Isaiah 2:4)

Please excuse me for long post. I will break it into two posts.

Well, that is from Isaiah chapter 2 which I believe is almost universally misunderstood to mean a future event as well as 70AD. Partly because we live in an "instant gratification" society that can't see the forest for the trees.

But the "context" is the last days (which is the whole New Testament period according to scripture) and the establishment of God's kingdom (which was at the time of the cross), and the cessation of warfare (which is also of Christ, the Prince of Peace). The problem (as I see it) is that people continually err in trying to look at prophecy as a physical/literal narrative. Worldly wars to cease, earthly kingdoms and thrones, physical lands, it is usually always the same error. A lack of understanding that scripture interprets scripture and that God speaks in symbolism. We pick up the context from verse 1.

Isa 2:2-5
(2) And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD'S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.
(3) And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
(4) And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.
(5) O house of Jacob, come ye, and let us walk in the light of the LORD.

I believe that these passages speak not of universal peace on Earth in the future, nor in heaven at Christ's second coming, but to the prophecies of Christ's first advent. The "last days" are the whole New Testament period, the new dispensation of Christ's Kingdom.

Acts 2:16-17

• "But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
• And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:"

The last days encompass the whole New Testament period, and were established in Christ's millennial Kingdom reign, and signified by the sign wonders at Pentecost. That is when the Mountain (kingdom) of the Lord's house was established over all kingdoms, and the nations or Gentiles began to flow into it. This is wherein the King or ruler of this Kingdom brought peace to the whole earth (as opposed to primarily national Israel) and established judgment within the nations. This is how He ended their warfare. It is all pointing to the establishment of Christ's millennial kingdom reign, which is now. You may be able to see this a little clearer if we go about it systematically, letting scripture interpret itself. Here is a brief overview.


1. And he shall judge among the nations

To judge among the nations is illustrating that Christ will set up His Kingdom among all nations of the world, and that it will no longer be primarily national Israel. Christ judges the nations as the sovereign ruler, governing all matters of God's law. Thus to judge among the nations means there will be a new dispensation, that Christ's kingdom will go to all, and He will sit as judge or ruler of all nations. Judgment is His rule of law, and rule is judgment. for example, even as the Judges God appointed in the Old Testament God were the rulers. Indeed it was for the purpose of executing this rule or judgment that Christ came. His Judging among the nations is in His establishing the kingdom that goes forth executing rule. And in order to do this, Satan, who rules over the nations, had to be defeated FIRST for man's sake.

Jeremiah 23:5-6

• "Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
• In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS."

Executing judgment in the earth is the rule in the Millennial reign of Christ (which is the New Testament Period), not something future or after Christ's second coming. And those who serve Christ are given this judgment in Him.

Revelation 20:3-4

• "And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
• And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years."

Along with the coming of this Millennial Kingdom of Christ wherein the nations were enlightened, also came rule or judgment. The rule of God's law and the judgment of the Word. This is not something that is to come in the future, but that has already been accomplished by Christ. Even as Christ Himself explained.

John 12:31

• "Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out."

By whom? Judgment by Christ, that Satan's house or kingdom is being spoiled by the onslaught of this kingdom. So strong that the gates of Satan's prison house are not able to prevent Christ's church from being built in those Satan held captive (Hebrews 2:14-15). The nations are being judged among (even as Revelation 20 illustrated) by the advancement of the Kingdom rule. As it was prophesied by God.

Isaiah 42:3-7

• "bruised reed shall he not break, and the smoking flax shall he not quench: he shall bring forth judgment unto truth.
• He shall not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set judgment in the earth: and the isles shall wait for his law.
• Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein:
• I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;
• To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house."

Judgment is established in the earth by Christ so that out of the dark prison house of Satan's kingdom comes the spoil. In other words, the gates of Satan's house cannot prevent the Kingdom of Christ from being advanced among the nations or gentiles. This is the Millennial reign and clearly, this speaks of Christ. It declares that He is the one that shall bring forth rule or judgment unto truth. What is being illustrated is a new prevalence of Christian principles among the nations or gentiles is established through the Kingdom of Christ. Indeed, it is written of Him:

Matthew 12:18

• "Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles."

So it is perfectly clear that when God prophesies that he shall judge among the nations (Gentiles), it speaks of this same prophecy. This same establishment of Christ's Kingdom. Christ not only binds Satan that these nations not be deceived but brings His law to the nations, convincing their consciences by changing their hearts that they are no longer deceived.


2. Rebuke many People

Too often today's puffed-up Christians "full of themselves" look upon Biblical rebuke as an "attack" when it is often simply a correction. By God's corrections, rebukes or warnings of judgment He brings the nations all over the world into subjection under His rule. Often how one reacts to this correction depends upon in what spirit they have received it.

Proverbs 9:8

• "Reprove not a scorner, lest he hate thee: rebuke a wise man, and he will love thee."

As God says, "correction is grievous unto him that forsakes the way, and he that hates reproof shall die - Proverbs 15:10" Rebuke or reproof in the Word is how God corrects, and unfortunately too many do not want to hear it. I'm sure most of us have heard professed Christians, having been quoted scripture, say that "..if that is the type of God you serve, I want no part of Him." That's because they don't like what "That God" has to say. They want another god, another Christ, and another gospel wherein they can have it their own way. They scoff and even bristle at the rebuke of God. Nevertheless, here and there, there are those elect of the nations, who will respond differently to God's rebukes. The rebuke of nations by God is not to their shame, but to their glory. He rebukes many nations so that they may acknowledge their sins, and turn to him. And to be sure, the election will. And these rebukes by God are often testified to by God's servants.

2nd Timothy 4:2

• "Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine."

Indeed, Christ commissioned his apostles, and indeed all God's servants in the New Testament to teach all nations, and this teaching is Christ's rebuke of the world and its glory. A rebuke of ungodliness and unlawfulness that is so lacking in our day. So while most people look at rebuke as a bad thing, sometimes in scripture God uses it as a synonym for convicting someone of truth, or to convince by the word, or to patiently rebuke doctrinal faults. When God said to Peter, "get thee behind me Satan," it was not to attack him, but to correct his beliefs. For God loves whom He rebukes, and we should have that exact same love for our fellow man.

Titus 1:13

• "This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;"

Titus 2:15

• "These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee."

Even as God rebukes unto salvation, so the servants of God, themselves made to reign in His kingdom, rebuke, that many might be zealous, repent with zeal and live with Godly enthusiasm.

Revelation 3:19

• "As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent."

As illustrated in Revelation chapter 20, in establishing His Kingdom rule God binds Satan so that the nations won't be deceived. And it is then that He rebukes the nations so that they might also acknowledge their sins and return to the communion with God man had in the garden of Eden. As many as He loves He rebukes and chastens, just as He did with Israel. His pleasure is that the nations would be zealous and repent that He might have a people from all kindreds and tongues and nations. Even as Christ said so very plainly in His holy word, was what He came to do.

John 16:7-11

• "Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
• And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
• Of sin, because they believe not on me;
• Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
• Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged."

This is saying the exact same thing that Isaiah 2:4 says in Him judging among the nations and rebuking many people. We just have to have our ears Spiritually tuned to receive what is being said. His rebuke is by His Word and His Spirit, convincing the nations of its sin, repentance and forgiveness.


3. Beat their swords into Plowshares & Spears into Pruninghooks

God prophesies here that the law, the word of God, shall go out from the Holy City, and would judge the nations that these people would change their implements of war into implements of peace. A sword is an instrument used for war, and the plowshare is a type of hoe used for digging and is an instrument for farming in agriculture.

1st Corinthians 3:7-9

• "So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.
• Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.
• For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building."

God is equating the people of His New Testament Congregation to those with plowshares who plant for the Lord. Just as the Kingdom of God is likened unto a sower who plants seed that it brings forth fruit. This signifies the kingdom of God going forth to the world, as plantings that are cared for and nourished so that they might grow. In like manner, a spear is an instrument of war, while a pruninghook is an instrument used for plants. It is a knife-like instrument for pruning plants so that might grow better. Again, this signifies that these people will turn from being at war with God, to being spiritual husbandmen (farmers) working in His garden to care for the fruit of the field. Beating their swords into plowshares means they will abstain from warfare against God and exercise Godly charity (Agape) in well-doing to others. Selah.

[Contiune to next post]

 

[TribulationSigns]

4. Nation Shall Not Lift Up Sword Against Nation

Before we became saved, we were at spiritual war with God, nation against nation, Kingdom against Kingdom, and our instruments of warfare were spiritual. God's kingdom comes by the Spirit of Christ with the sword of the Word of God. And the nation at enmity with it comes by the spirit of Antichrist with the word of Satan. An epic battle between two nations that have been fought since the garden of Eden. Just as I explained the part about the chosen generation and the generation of evil on this thread. Indeed, it is signified in

Genesis 25:23-26

• "And the LORD said unto her, Two nations are in thy womb, and two manner of people shall be separated from thy bowels; and the one people shall be stronger than the other people; and the elder shall serve the younger.
• And when her days to be delivered were fulfilled, behold, there were twins in her womb.
• And the first came out red, all over like an hairy garment; and they called his name Esau.
• And after that came his brother out, and his hand took hold on Esau's heel; and his name was called Jacob: and Isaac was threescore years old when she bare them."

This signified the two nations that are at war with each other. The nation Jacob, whom God loves because he represents the kingdom of God, and the nation Esau whom God hates because he represents the Kingdom of Satan. These two nations struggle against each other even as Jacob and Esau struggle in the womb. Because they are at enmity with one another.

Matthew 12:24-26

• "But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils.
• And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:
• And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?"

Christ is at enmity with Satan, and his kingdom with Christ's. Two nations are as diverse as the two nations struggling within Rebekah. But Christ came to spoil that kingdom, to prevail over its gates, to deliver these people that the nations would not be at enmity, and Satan could not deceive them and prevent him from taking them by conquest. For example, He came with the prophesied establishment of the Kingdom of God to make peace between the nations.

Matthew 12:28-30

• "But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.
• Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.
• He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad."

In other words, in the coming of the Millennial kingdom of God, Satan had to "FIRST" be bound (Revelation 20) so that he could not deceive the nations any longer. This is the act of Christ that caused the nations to put away their swords! And that caused them to go into the business of plowing and pruning as Husbandmen for God. That they would be nations that would never again lift up swords against this nation. Two Kingdoms at odds with each other, two nations that cannot normally co-exist together, but when Christ binds Satan that the nations are not deceived, it is all different. He brings peace to the nations, having them join Him in communion.

1st Peter 2:9-10

• "But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
• Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy."

There is the Holy nation that the Gentiles do not war with anymore. It is God's Holy nation! The nations (or gentiles) are now coming into this Holy Nation as Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. They were once under Satan's bondage, but experienced born again and now works for God.

Ezekiel 37:21-24

• "And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:
• And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all:
• Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God.
• And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them."

Please note, NOT the heathen, but FROM AMONG the heathen. They have strayed in forsaking God, but they were always the election, chosen unto salvation. The gates of hell cannot hold them when Christ's kingdom comes against those gates. So that never again will the nation be at odds with the nation when they are reconciled in Christ.

5. Neither Learn War Anymore

In Messiah's Kingdom reign, there shall be war no more. War is the opposite of peace, and is what we are when we are unsaved and at enmity with God. By the same token, when we are translated from the gates of the prison of darkness, into the Kingdom of Christ, our warfare is ended by the Prince of Peace. We are not battling with that nation anymore, we forsake such warfare governed by the Prince of Peace, with God. Even as prophesied.

Isaiah 40:1-3

• "Comfort ye, comfort ye my people, saith your God.
• Speak ye comfortably to Jerusalem, and cry unto her, that her warfare is accomplished, that her iniquity is pardoned: for she hath received of the LORD'S hand double for all her sins.
• The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God."

Clearly this spoke of the first advent of Christ, and the spiritual warfare of a nation that has been brought to peace with God, through Christ. This is something that happened long ago, at the Cross, not something to come in the future or in 70AD.

Colossians 1:19-21

• "For it pleased the Father that in him should all fullness dwell;
• And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
• And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled."

The warfare is accomplished, we have been reconciled to God, and brought peace, through Christ. We are comforted (Isaiah 40:1-3) because we have come unto this Holy nation, this holy city, this spiritual Jerusalem that would not learn war anymore. And it is a holy nation and city made up of Jews and Gentiles, Greeks and Romans, whites and blacks, old and young, all who have traded in their swords for plowshares. All who substitute enmity against God with ministering in the kingdom of Christ as sowers, planters and builders.

So Isaiah 2:4 has nothing whatsoever to do with pie in the sky ideas of the world becoming Christianized, or there being physical peace all over the earth with militaries dropping their weapons because Christ sits in the Middle East, or the afterlife, etc. It speaks of Christ's first advent, and the imagery is illustrating the establishment of the Millennial Kingdom of peace and safety, of building and planting, of salvation to the nations. It speaks to the calling of the Gentile nations and the spread of the kingdom all over the earth.

Hope that helps.

 

[Hammster]

Your OP is not a refutation. It confirmed my position. Either you didn’t read or remember my response to your OP earlier.

Try again.

Since it shows that Jesus consistently used “this generation” to refer to the generation He was addressing, I’m not seeing how your focus on the word “generation”, while ignoring the pronoun, is a refutation.

 

[Hammster]

As to the last hour, that is obviously not meaning a literal hour, and that I would think you at least agree with that. Since it is not meaning a literal hour, that means this last hour can begin 2000 years and we still being in this same last hour 2000 years later, the same way the last days began 2000 years ago and we are still in these same last days yet today.

That’s because you are acting as if it’s written to us. It was written to a local church. They wouldn’t have seen it that way.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Since it shows that Jesus consistently used “this generation” to refer to the generation He was addressing, I’m not seeing how your focus on the word “generation”, while ignoring the pronoun, is a refutation.

Very unlikely! It is you who have ignored the SCRIPTURE on what this generation of Christ actually talked about. You need to read again, again, and (again) and Lord willing you will get it!

Matthew 23:29-32

• "Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,
• And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
• Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
• Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers."

In other words, they were of the same generation (family) of those who killed the prophets, the same spirits, with the same spiritual father--the Devil. The same cup that their fathers filled and offered, they fill also. The same responsibility for killing God's servants their fathers had, they have also. You see, these people believed that they were doing God service by persecuting and eliminating God's servants. The same as the church, Pastors, Ministers and Parishioners today. They all have the same spirit to fight against the Spirit of God bearing witness to the pure unadulterated word. As saith the preacher, there is nothing new under the sun.

Matthew 23:35-38

• "That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
• Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
• O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
• Behold, your house is left unto you desolate."

And indeed As Christ prophesied, the Old Testament congregation's abominations have left it desolate. All the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel whom Cain slew, to the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, all fell upon that generation or family. The same generation of evil that is offended by Christ's Word today.

Of course, one might have the objection, how could one living in the time of Christ be responsible for the blood of Abel, whom Cain slew. It is because they are of the same spiritual family (spells "generation"), having the same spiritual father. They are the same generation of evil, the same seed of the snake, the same generation of Vipers with the very same spirit to kill the Lord's messengers. Whether they kill with a literal sword, or with hatred, hate is considered murder in God's Eyes. The chosen people and prophets have been attacked by the evil generation since Abel. Yet, as Christ said, THIS GENERATION or family will not pass from this Earth until all is fulfilled with the Second Coming of Christ. Period. Note God says to them that all the righteous blood shed upon the earth shall come upon them. Just as God says of Babylon because he was speaking to the unfaithful congregation just as Babylon is.

Luke 11:49-50

• "Therefore also said the wisdom of God, I will send them prophets and apostles, and some of them they shall slay and persecute:
• That the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of this generation;"

Now, Hammster, WHO is Christ talking to, and to WHOM did he send the Prophets--and WHO killed them? Was it the outside nations or the people of God's own congregation? Moreover, was the blood of Abel and all the prophets only required of people living at that specific time like you believe? Of course not, you do err! That makes NO sense, frankly! The truth is that the generation Christ spoke of is the generation of evil, the family who are of the spirit of Antichrist, which existed in the day of Abel, existed in the day of Christ, and exists today through the false prophets and christs of God's congregation today! It did not end in 70AD!

Selah!

 

[DavidPT]

That’s because you are acting as if it’s written to us. It was written to a local church. They wouldn’t have seen it that way.

Matthew 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

Take this verse for instance. Look at how many times Jesus used the pronoun 'you' in this verse. Obviously, He was meaning them, so, that is not disputable. What is disputable, since He was saying this to them at the time, this means He was only meaning them and no one else as well. IOW, one can't interpret this to also mean that this 'you' also means you and me and anyone else reading these same words 2000 years later. As if Jesus can't also be saying these things to someone else in future generations because He uses pronouns such as 'you', 'ye' etc, therefore, He was only meaning them and no one else as well.

As if, only those He was speaking to at the time, are to love their enemies, so on and so on, but anyone in future generations, since He used the pronoun 'you', these things don't apply to them as well.

 

[Hammster]

Very unlikely!

Very likely. The OP has the examples.

 

[Hammster]

Matthew 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

Take this verse for instance. Look at how many times Jesus used the pronoun 'you' in this verse. Obviously, He was meaning them, so, that is not disputable. What is disputable, since He was saying this to them at the time, this means He was only meaning them and no one else as well. IOW, one can't interpret this to also mean that this 'you' also means you and me and anyone else reading these same words 2000 years later. As if Jesus can't also be saying these things to someone else in future generations because He uses pronouns such as 'you', 'ye' etc, therefore, He was only meaning them and no one else as well.

As if, only those He was speaking to at the time, are to love their enemies, so on and so on, but anyone in future generations, since He used the pronoun 'you', these things don't apply to them as well.

Here’s the difference. In the SotM, He’s not telling them to look for signs. He is doing that in the OD. Since the destruction of the temple has already happened, we don’t have it to look forward to. We do still have enemies, though.

Good question, though.