This generation

[Hammster]

Yet many are still reading and that equates to "you" who share the guilt of all the righteous blood shed on earth. How do WE know this to be true? Because the blood shed of the righteous has not ended! As long as Israel; meaning both Israel of faith, and Israel of God remain upon the earth, the end has not yet come, therefore Christ has not yet come. There are only two people kinds/generation/nations on earth, and ALL of them either belong to Israel from above, or of the kind/generation/nation that are evil, and guilty of shedding righteous blood.

That’s not how hermeneutics works.

 

[claninja]

Mark 13:30 Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done.

This is how the KJV translates the above verse.

The Greek word translated 'done' is ginomai.

ginomai
ghin'-om-ahee
a prolongation and middle voice form of a primary verb; to cause to be ("gen"-erate), i.e. (reflexively) to become (come into being), used with great latitude (literal, figurative, intensive, etc.):--arise, be assembled, be(-come, -fall, -have self), be brought (to pass), (be) come (to pass), continue, be divided, draw, be ended , fall, be finished , follow, be found, be fulfilled, + God forbid, grow, happen, have, be kept, be made, be married, be ordained to be, partake, pass, be performed, be published, require, seem, be showed, X soon as it was, sound, be taken, be turned, use, wax, will, would, be wrought.


Explain why what I have underlined above can't mean what 'done' means in verse 30 above, but has to be meaning something else among those definitions of ginomai?

Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be ended.

Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be finished.

I absolutely agree that it can be understood as “done” in the same way that it has happened/occurred/came to be. I’m saying it shouldn’t be understood as “brought to completion” like teleo or “filled up” like pleroo. There are different ways to understand “fulfilled” when it comes to the Greek language.

Ellicot’s commentary:
“This generation shall not pass . . .—The natural meaning of the words is, beyond question. that which takes “generation” in the ordinary sense (as in Matthew 1:17, Acts 13:36, and elsewhere) for those who are living at any given period. So it was on “this generation” (Matthew 23:36) that the accumulated judgments were to fall. The desire to bring the words into more apparent harmony with history has led some interpreters to take “generation” in the sense of “race” or “people,” and so to see in the words a prophecy of the perpetuity of the existence of the Jews as a distinct people till the end of the world. But for this meaning there is not the shadow of authority; nor does it remove the difficulty which it was invented to explain. The words of Matthew 16:28state the same fact in language which does not admit of any such explanation.

Till all these things be fulfilled.—Better, till all these things come to pass. The words do not necessarily imply more than the commencement of a process, the first unrolling of the scroll of the coming ages.”

“this generation might not pass away until these things might come to pass/might be accomplished/might happen/might be done”


So to clarify, do you agree the following events happened/occurred/were done/took place in the disciples’ 1st century generation: persecution, famine, war, earthquakes, lawlessness, those falling away from the church, the gospel being preached to every creature under heaven, Jerusalem and the temple destroyed, the servants gathering the good and bad into the wedding feast, the son of man coming in the clouds (matthew 26:64)?

Why do you believe that genea should mean a different word in Matthew 24, when in every other context is means contemporaries?

 

[rwb]

When the original audience read it, they would have been those readers.

When did they read it?

 

[rwb]

That’s not how hermeneutics works.

So you say???

 

[Hammster]

When did they read it?

I’m sure it was circulated right after the gospel accounts were written.

 

[Hammster]

So you say???

Yes.

 

[rwb]

I’m sure it was circulated right after the gospel accounts were written.

When were the Gospel accounts written down in a form so "that" people living then could read it?

 

[rwb]

Yes.

It's difficult to accept your opinions regarding biblical truth because it is clear that you are reading your bias into the Word of God.

 

[Hammster]

When were the Gospel accounts written down in a form so "that" people living then could read it?

Various dates. Thin info is readily available online.

 

[Hammster]

It's difficult to accept your opinions regarding biblical truth because it is clear that you are reading your bias into the Word of God.

Trying to not read myself into the text, and trying to understand it the way the original audience understood it, isn’t being biased.

 

[rwb]

Trying to not read myself into the text, and trying to understand it the way the original audience understood it, isn’t being biased.

The Bible is not, and never has been written to only the original audience. So Irregardless of how they understood what might have been spoken to them, how does he who reads understand? Meaning those living beyond the original audience? No matter how much you wish it to be true, the nation living in the first century AD did not have in widely circulated written form these words Christ spoke from the Mt of Olives.

So even though the destruction of the Temple, and Jerusalem happened as Christ said it would, only a biased opinion would attempt to force the whole of the Olivet Discourse into 70 AD.

 

[Hammster]

The Bible is not, and never has been written to only the original audience. So Irregardless of how they understood what might have been spoken to them, how does he who reads understand? Meaning those living beyond the original audience? No matter how much you wish it to be true, the nation living in the first century AD did not have in widely circulated written form these words Christ spoke from the Mt of Olives.

So even though the destruction of the Temple, and Jerusalem happened as Christ said it would, only a biased opinion would attempt to force the whole of the Olivet Discourse into 70 AD.

Actually, it was written to the original audience. The original audience read these letters as if they were written to them. They were also written for us. So we can glean God’s will by reading them. But we have to understand them as they were written because they can never mean what they never meant.

 

[rwb]

Actually, it was written to the original audience. The original audience read these letters as if they were written to them. They were also written for us. So we can glean God’s will by reading them. But we have to understand them as they were written because they can never mean what they never meant.

The New Testament, like the Oracles of God from Old are written for the people of God. In other words; the church.

 

[Hammster]

The New Testament, like the Oracles of God from Old are written for the people of God. In other words; the church.

That’s what I just said.

 

[rwb]

That’s what I just said.

You said "original audience", and by that you mean the unbelieving nation of Israel living in 70 AD. The Bible is given to the church; Christians. The words of Christ were spoken to His disciples who were there with Him. His disciples are believers; i.e. the church! The writings of the New Testament were not for an unbelieving Jewish nation.

 

[sovereigngrace]

You said "original audience", and by that you that you mean the unbelieving nation of Israel living in 70 AD. The Bible is given to the church; Christians. The words of Christ were spoken to His disciples who were there with Him. His disciples are believers; i.e. the church! The writings of the New Testament were not for an unbelieving Jewish nation.

It is great when you can let the Bible speak for itself.

 

[sovereigngrace]

Actually, it was written to the original audience. The original audience read these letters as if they were written to them. They were also written for us. So we can glean God’s will by reading them. But we have to understand them as they were written because they can never mean what they never meant.

You are making the same mistake that Dispies do.

 

[TribulationSigns]

I’m sorry you are late to the game. We dealt with this 1500 posts ago.

And? You still talking to me?

“Therefore, behold, I am sending you prophets and wise men and scribes; some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues, and persecute from city to city, so that upon you may fall the guilt of all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, the son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. Truly I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.
— Matthew 23:34-36

All of those references to “you” are second person plural. So they reference His immediate audience. So when He says this generation, He still has His immediate audience in mind.

Read the context:

Mat 23:29-36
(29) Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,
(30) And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
(31) Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
(32) Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
(33) Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
(34) Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
(35) That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
(36) Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.

Christ was speaking to the generation of evil and vipers that Pharisees who heard him were merely part of. Consider wisely:

Dan 9:26
(26) And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

Michael and His Messengers (Elect) were at war with the Pharisees, scribes, and all unbelieving Jews, messengers of Evil, where His own people, not Roman soldiers, destroyed both city and sanctuary when they rejected and killed Christ. Remember Christ said that they will destroy the temple which is his body?

Joh 2:18-21
(18) Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things?
(19) Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
(20) Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
(21) But he spake of the temple of his body.

It is this generation or family of evil that was left desolate because of their abominations. This is why Christ said to that wicked family,

Matthew 23:33-38

• "Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
• Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
• That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
• Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
• O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
• Behold, your house is left unto you desolate."

Clearly, the generation or family He spoke about was Jerusalem! Not literal bricks or stones, but the people, the people of this Messiah the prince, His own people of the Old Testament congregation. Therefore, Christ was talking to a family of vipers who has murdered His chosen since Cain murdered Abel at the beginning, not a physical city! Selah! "THIS" is the family that destroyed the city and sanctuary and the people or family who it will be required of.

And like @sovereigngrace said, "You are making the SAME MISTAKE that Dispies do. Like you, the Pharisees and Scribes all thought Christ was talking about the physical temple.

 

[Hammster]

You said "original audience", and by that you mean the unbelieving nation of Israel living in 70 AD. The Bible is given to the church; Christians. The words of Christ were spoken to His disciples who were there with Him. His disciples are believers; i.e. the church! The writings of the New Testament were not for an unbelieving Jewish nation.

Why on earth would you assume something I’ve never said? The gospels were written for the church. That’s how we have to understand them.

 

[Hammster]

And? You still talking to me?




Read the context:

Mat 23:29-36
(29) Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,
(30) And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
(31) Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
(32) Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
(33) Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
(34) Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
(35) That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
(36) Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.

Christ was speaking to the generation of evil and vipers that Pharisees who heard him were merely part of. Consider wisely:

Dan 9:26
(26) And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

Michael and His Messengers (Elect) were at war with the Pharisees, scribes, and all unbelieving Jews, messengers of Evil, where His own people, not Roman soldiers, destroyed both city and sanctuary when they rejected and killed Christ. Remember Christ said that they will destroy the temple which is his body?

Joh 2:18-21
(18) Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things?
(19) Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
(20) Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
(21) But he spake of the temple of his body.

It is this generation or family of evil that was left desolate because of their abominations. This is why Christ said to that wicked family,

Matthew 23:33-38

• "Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
• Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
• That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
• Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
• O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
• Behold, your house is left unto you desolate."

Clearly, the generation or family He spoke about was Jerusalem! Not literal bricks or stones, but the people, the people of this Messiah the prince, His own people of the Old Testament congregation. Therefore, Christ was talking to a family of vipers who has murdered His chosen since Cain murdered Abel at the beginning, not a physical city! Selah! "THIS" is the family that destroyed the city and sanctuary and the people or family who it will be required of.

And like @sovereigngrace said, "You are making the SAME MISTAKE that Dispies do. Like you, the Pharisees and Scribes all thought Christ was talking about the physical temple.

You are ignoring the second person plurals. Jesus was specifically addressing that generation. He even said so.