This generation

[claninja]

How about the answer as...NO? This has NOTHING to do with first-century "generation!"

Look, do you honestly think that the "generation" of 70A.D the worst calamities and miseries of the Jews, ever? Okay, how about countless thousands raped, tortured, and six million killed in World War II alone? If physical tribulation is in view, this view does NOT have a leg to stand on. And GREATER tribulation than ever was or ever shall be? Humm? How about the greater tribulation than when Satan himself is loosed after the millennium to gather the armies together against the Holy City? This is NONSENSE! But this seems to be your and OP's distraction "DIVERTING" us FROM Scripture in order to rely upon some secular historians in an attempt to define and fulfill the Lord's prophecy. God does NOT work like that, Selah!

The Bible is its own interpreter, not historians. That is "precisely" how we know that the Old Testament congregation of Israel was judged at the Cross. Not because of the writings of men you often referred like Adam Whatz-his-name or Mathew Henry, but because God's Word says so! We follow the light of His Word, not the traditions of these men. Thus we are always guided down the right path.

STICK WITH THE BIBLE!

Psalms 119:105

• "Thy Word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path."

His Word, not Josephus. Not Hammster. Or my own!




Nope. See...

You think Our Lord wept at the foresight of these calamities based on the book of Josephus. Christ is NOT weeping over a few thousand people being killed. Thousands of people are killed EVERY DAY OF THE WEEK. No, you do err. Christ was weeping at foreseeing the fall of Israel that they are blinded, and that the kingdom will be taken from them and given to another, not that some Romans would conquer their temporal physical city! He wept for their souls, not because they wouldn't run and hide in some physical mountains from the Romans. That's not the important thing to weep over, their souls were what Christ wept over. That they were branches now broken off of the Covenanted Olive tree, and that their children now would have no root. That is what He wept over, get it!? People have got to stop looking at the world, the physical, carnal, fleshly, earthly symbols--but unto spiritual.

Luke 23:28-31

• "But Jesus turning unto them said, Daughters of Jerusalem, weep not for me, but weep for yourselves, and for your children.
• For, behold, the days are coming, in the which they shall say, Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bare, and the paps which never gave suck.
• Then shall they begin to say to the mountains, Fall on us; and to the hills, Cover us.
• For if they do these things in a green tree, what shall be done in the dry?"

Do we define this prophecy by the ramblings of Josephus (who wasn't even a Christian, remember that), or do we define it by the "light" of the Word of God? It is clearly "NOT ONLY" a prophecy of the fall of Israel at the cross when Christ would be removed, but also a prophecy of the New Testament Church (the barren having more children). It has nothing whatsoever to do with AD 70 theory. Look and compare the parallel accounts about the barren having more children. It couldn't be any clearer. The green tree is when the Life of Christ is the root of Israel, and the dry is when Christ is no longer their Root and there is no longer that life in Israel. She becomes baren, her children are dead in trespass and sin, blinded, and in bondage to Satan. While the barren (the nations) become of Christ. That was the New Testament Congregation of Israel after the cross, it didn't happen in AD 70!

Galatians 4:25-28

• "For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
• But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
• For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.
• Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise."

To attempt to assign this fulfillment of the prophecy of Christ to the year AD 70 is tortuous of Matthew 23!

Clearly, and despite your objections based on the tradition of those holding to Josephus, the prophecy was already fulfilled when Galatians was written, and Jerusalem in bondage was already judged of God and in bondage with her children. That is why Christ said to Jerusalem, weep for yourselves, and for your children. Because, listen to this, they were NOT the children of promise, not the children of the Jerusalem from above. This has nothing to do with Romans sacking a physical Jerusalem and killing literal children, it has to do with the wrath of God upon His unfaithful Old Testament congregation of Israel making up of her CHILDREN (Jews) within her, and they being left desolate by their rejection. People need to stop attempting to define scripture by secular history books, and define it by itself. The Bible is the only History book that can interpret prophesy.

Sadly, it seems Josephus has to a large degree become the god of prophecy these days. But Josephus was not even a man of God, not even Christian! Why then are so many people putting prophecy validation into the hands of this man's untrustworthy writings, humm? How do we know the biblical prophecy took place in AD 70 is because Josephus told us? Sigh...but the enigma is revealed once we understand that people believe whatever they want to hear in support of their positions.

@sovereigngrace
@Spiritual Jew

This is all over the place. I have no idea how this addresses my post.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Ideas and words must be added or read into this to make it fit a particular view. However, taken at face value, like the other instances, simply means that the generation that Jesus was speaking to were those in view, not some eisegesical generation in the future.

I will response to your OP here. And I will take just one of your quoted verses:

Sighing deeply in His spirit, He said, “Why does this generation seek for a sign? Truly I say to you, no sign will be given to this generation.”
— Mark 8:12

I will explain it by a sound, consistent, harmonious, logical reading of the text, in context, and in full agreement with all what Christ said. That He was a sign to that family or generation of vipers. A sign that He's the prophesied Messiah and that the Kingdom had come. Let me ask you a question, Hammster. How do you explain Christ saying in one verse to one contemporary generation that there will be no sign given, and in the very next verse say He was a sign to a generation? Contradiction? Not at all.

Luke 11:29-30

• "And when the people were gathered thick together, he began to say, This is an evil generation: they seek a sign; and there shall no sign be given it, but the sign of Jonas the prophet.
• For as Jonas was a sign unto the Ninevites, so shall also the Son of man be to this generation."

No sign given but ([ei me], if not or saving) the sign of His death and resurrection. So a sign was given, but that generation that was blinded could not see it, while the disciples and election would see the sign that was given. One Holy Generation receiving the Word of the Spirit who gives it, and the evil (other) generation rejecting it by the spirit of disobedience. Christ says of the sign, so shall also the Son of man be to this generation. The question is to WHAT generation? It is the generation that seeks signs when no sign shall be given? No, the generation who have eyes to see the sign of Jonas as a type of Christ unto the Ninevites. The death and resurrection of Christ is indeed a sign to His holy generation (1st Peter 2:9), His family, and the chosen children of His Father. An evil and adulterous "family" are the professed believers of the congregation who seek after signs to support their religion, and they aren't given signs! Yet Christ says there is indeed a sign given, which is His resurrection (as the Holy Temple) after its destruction. Contradiction? No, not at all--because the evil family or generation are the children of the Devil spanned since Abel and they don't see the sign because God has not given them eyes to see! Selah! And yet another contemporary and everlasting generation or family does see the sign, as they are the chosen children of God. Again, a portrait of two families or generations [genea], but only one generation that recognizes the sign of the resurrection of the Temple in Christ. The destruction and rebuilding are NOT found in Jewish fables of the rebuilding of physical structures in the Middle East, and placement of worldly or political kings upon the pile of dirt, but in spiritual cities, Kingdoms and Rulers.

Therefore, all the verses with the word, "generation" that you have quoted were speaking about the spiritual evil family or generation that lasts a lot longer than a man's lifespan within 70AD. The unbelieving Jews in Christ's days were only part of the ongoing evil generation that continued to pass through the Cross until the Second Coming when all things are fulfilled. Selah.

 

[Hammster]

I will response to your OP here. And I will take just one of your quoted verses:



I will explain it by a sound, consistent, harmonious, logical reading of the text, in context, and in full agreement with all what Christ said. That He was a sign to that family or generation of vipers. A sign that He's the prophesied Messiah and that the Kingdom had come. Let me ask you a question, Hammster. How do you explain Christ saying in one verse to one contemporary generation that there will be no sign given, and in the very next verse say He was a sign to a generation? Contradiction? Not at all.

Luke 11:29-30

• "And when the people were gathered thick together, he began to say, This is an evil generation: they seek a sign; and there shall no sign be given it, but the sign of Jonas the prophet.
• For as Jonas was a sign unto the Ninevites, so shall also the Son of man be to this generation."

No sign given but ([ei me], if not or saving) the sign of His death and resurrection. So a sign was given, but that generation that was blinded could not see it, while the disciples and election would see the sign that was given. One Holy Generation receiving the Word of the Spirit who gives it, and the evil (other) generation rejecting it by the spirit of disobedience. Christ says of the sign, so shall also the Son of man be to this generation. The question is to WHAT generation? It is the generation that seeks signs when no sign shall be given? No, the generation who have eyes to see the sign of Jonas as a type of Christ unto the Ninevites. The death and resurrection of Christ is indeed a sign to His holy generation (1st Peter 2:9), His family, and the chosen children of His Father. An evil and adulterous "family" are the professed believers of the congregation who seek after signs to support their religion, and they aren't given signs! Yet Christ says there is indeed a sign given, which is His resurrection (as the Holy Temple) after its destruction. Contradiction? No, not at all--because the evil family or generation are the children of the Devil spanned since Abel and they don't see the sign because God has not given them eyes to see! Selah! And yet another contemporary and everlasting generation or family does see the sign, as they are the chosen children of God. Again, a portrait of two families or generations [genea], but only one generation that recognizes the sign of the resurrection of the Temple in Christ. The destruction and rebuilding are NOT found in Jewish fables of the rebuilding of physical structures in the Middle East, and placement of worldly or political kings upon the pile of dirt, but in spiritual cities, Kingdoms and Rulers.

Therefore, all the verses with the word, "generation" that you have quoted were speaking about the spiritual evil family or generation that lasts a lot longer than a man's lifespan within 70AD. The unbelieving Jews in Christ's days were only part of the ongoing evil generation that continued to pass through the Cross until the Second Coming when all things are fulfilled. Selah.

The Pharisees came out and began to argue with Him, seeking from Him a sign from heaven, to test Him. Sighing deeply in His spirit, He said, “Why does this generation seek for a sign? Truly I say to you, no sign will be given to this generation.”
— Mark 8:11-12
When you read in in context, it’s much clearer. The Pharisees wanted a magic trick. He wasn’t going to give them one.

And to be clearer, here’s Matthew’s account.


Then some of the scribes and Pharisees said to Him, “Teacher, we want to see a sign from You.” But He answered and said to them, “An evil and adulterous generation craves for a sign; and yet no sign will be given to it but the sign of Jonah the prophet;
— Matthew 12:38-39

 

[rwb]

Most here tend to claim the armies in 66 were the AoD. Why would anyone sacrificing after 30AD, not be an AoD? But just making anything the AoD, as just a generic every day event of the first century does not make sense. Even armies marching around cannot be an AoD. Jesus was pretty specific that it was one single event that would cause a limited time of desolation, ie 42 months. Not hundreds of years of desolation. Seemingly from multiple Scripture views, Satan himself would be in control of humanity. Not sure why Satan would only control a single city. If Satan is going to be in the forefront, why just one city? Why not all of humanity?

Unless the Abomination of Desolation is clearly understood, it is impossible to understand that which follows. Like for instance "great tribulation" that would come during this time. To know what the Abomination of Desolation, spoken by Daniel is, we must first determine what/where the holy place is.

It's absurd to believe it is the Temple in Jerusalem, because it ceased to be the holy place unto God even before the vail was torn, and the tearing of the vail left us without doubt it was no longer the holy place when Christ hang on the cross, so 70 AD is NOT, the holy place.

What could be the holy place where the Abomination of Desolation spoken by Daniel is standing in the holy place? I believe it is the body of Christ, the church on earth. Believers are the Church and therefore they are the holy place. It is also the Church that will experience "great tribulation" as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. What entity on earth has continued to endure through almost two thousand years of persecution and affliction the body of Christ; the Church has?

The body of believers, the Church is repeatedly warned throughout the Scripture of the dangers lurking within the body of Christ, among believers. It is through deceivers, Satan transforming himself into an angel of light, and his ministers transformed into ministers of righteousness. Unbelievers among us, masquerading as sheep, who are wolves, not sparing the flock of God. False apostles, deceitful workers, all members of hell and death, the domain of the Devil.

Is it any wonder that we are warned to watch, and when we see Abomination of Desolation or Abomination that makes desolate among us we are instructed to understand. Don't let the body of Christ become an abomination that makes it desolate in the same manner the Scribes and Pharisees of old had.

We see from the letters written to the churches that some will become an abomination to God, which is why we are called to fight the good fight of faith, putting on the full amour of God.

Acts 20:28-32 (KJV) Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood. For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them. Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears. And now, brethren, I commend you to God, and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up, and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified.

2 Corinthians 11:3-4 (KJV) But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

2 Corinthians 11:13-15 (KJV) For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

Hebrews 3:4-6 (KJV) For every house is builded by some man; but he that built all things is God. And Moses verily was faithful in all his house, as a servant, for a testimony of those things which were to be spoken after; But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.

Matthew 16:18 (KJV) And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

John 2:19-21 (KJV) Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up. Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days? But he spake of the temple of his body.

Romans 12:5 (KJV) So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.

1 Corinthians 12:12-14 (KJV) For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. For the body is not one member, but many.

1 Corinthians 12:26-27 (KJV) And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it. Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.

Ephesians 5:23 (KJV) For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.

Matthew 18:20 (KJV) For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

Matthew 7:15 (KJV) Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

Colossians 2:8-12 (KJV) Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

 

[TribulationSigns]

The Pharisees came out and began to argue with Him, seeking from Him a sign from heaven, to test Him. Sighing deeply in His spirit, He said, “Why does this generation seek for a sign? Truly I say to you, no sign will be given to this generation.”
— Mark 8:11-12
When you read in in context, it’s much clearer. The Pharisees wanted a magic trick. He wasn’t going to give them one.

And to be clearer, here’s Matthew’s account.


Then some of the scribes and Pharisees said to Him, “Teacher, we want to see a sign from You.” But He answered and said to them, “An evil and adulterous generation craves for a sign; and yet no sign will be given to it but the sign of Jonah the prophet;
— Matthew 12:38-39

Actually, Christ was still talking about the generation of evil - a spiritual family that the Pharisees were merely part of this ongoing evil spiritual generation! Selah! Not the lifespan of the Pharisees!

Now here is a lesson:

What does a generation mean?

It means a family, a kindred, a seed, a stock, a group of people with a common ancestor or father. Genea from [genos] or family, a group common descent.

Phillipians 3:5

• "Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;"

It's a family relationship, a stock or kindred or generation of evil versus a generation of Holiness.

1st Peter 2:9

• "But ye are a chosen generation [genea], a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:"

Honestly, do you think God's children of the "40 years" Peter were addressing the only chosen generation, seriously? Or is Peter declaring a chosen family that reaches the election today? That is the question, Hammster! And the answer is obvious. ..at least to those handling Scripture honestly. The elect is a chosen family, a holy family, a special family, a peculiar family, called out from the wicked and adulterous family, the generation of vipers. One family shall no sign be given, the other family sees it as the sign of Jonah, Christ's resurrection from the dead. Selah.

Now let us look at Luke 11:30...

Luke 11:30

• "For as Jonas was a sign unto the Ninevites, so shall also the Son of man be to this generation"

And you think Christ was talking about a literal 40 years generation?

Okay, Let's test your theory.

Let's change the word "generation" to 40 years.

"...so shall also the Son of man be to this 40 years."

Does this make sense? Of course not.

Now try "family"

"...so shall also the Son of man be to this family."

The question is WHAT family? Of course, it is the family that sees Jonas as a sign, not the family that no sign will be given because it is an evil and adulterous family. The only sign that's given is the sign that they cannot see because they don't accept the authority of Scripture. This is the magnificent salvation program of Christ. Selah. Consider when Christ contrasted the family of God with the family of the devil He said that they were wiser than were in a certain way.

Luke 16:8

• "And the lord commended the unjust steward, because he had done wisely: for the children of this world are in their generation wiser than the children of light."

Does that make sense if we say the children of this world in their 40 years are wiser? It is clear God is referring to them as a carnal worldly family? Generation there means their clan or family relationship as children of the Devil rather than children of light. Again, God illustrates two distinct types of children--two families [genea], translated as generations. A Holy Nation (all saved in Christ) v.s. the evil generation (all unsaved people). The unsaved people are still here on Earth is becasue their evil generation will pass away until all thing are fulfilled. Nothing to do 70AD! Period.

 

[claninja]

Phillipians 3:5

• "Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;"

It's a family relationship, a stock or kindred or generation of evil versus a generation of Holiness.

1st Peter 2:9

• "But ye are a chosen generation [genea], a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:"

genea is not found in those verses. It’s genos.

 

[TribulationSigns]

genea is not found in those verses. It’s genos.

Actually, the Greek word translated generation is genea - Strong's G1074. It is from the root genos, Strong's G1085. Genos is still generation, family, stock, kindred, etc.

--------------------------

Word: genoj

Pronounce: ghen'-os

Strongs Number: G1085

Orig: from 1096; "kin" (abstract or concrete, literal or figurative, individual or collective):--born, country(-man), diversity, generation, kind(-red), nation, offspring, stock. G1096

Use: TDNT-1:684,117 Noun Neuter

Heb Strong: H2177 H2233 H2905 H4327 H4940 H5971

1) kindred
1a) offspring
1b) family
1c) stock, tribe, nation
1c1) i.e. nationality or descent from a particular people
1d) the aggregate of many individuals of the same nature, kind, sort

 

[claninja]

Word: genoj

Pronounce: ghen'-os

Strongs Number: G1085

Orig: from 1096; "kin" (abstract or concrete, literal or figurative, individual or collective):--born, country(-man), diversity, generation, kind(-red), nation, offspring, stock. G1096

Use: TDNT-1:684,117 Noun Neuter

Heb Strong: H2177 H2233 H2905 H4327 H4940 H5971

1) kindred
1a) offspring
1b) family
1c) stock, tribe, nation
1c1) i.e. nationality or descent from a particular people
1d) the aggregate of many individuals of the same nature, kind, sort

Genos is not the same word as genea. Genea is not found in 1 peter 2:9 nor Philippians 3:5

 

[Hammster]

Is it any wonder that we are warned to watch, and when we see Abomination of Desolation or Abomination that makes desolate among us we are instructed to understand.

We aren’t warned. They were warned.

 

[Hammster]

Actually, Christ was still talking about the generation of evil - a spiritual family that the Pharisees were merely part of this ongoing evil spiritual generation! Selah! Not the lifespan of the Pharisees!

Now here is a lesson:

What does a generation mean?

It means a family, a kindred, a seed, a stock, a group of people with a common ancestor or father. Genea from [genos] or family, a group common descent.

Phillipians 3:5

• "Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;"

It's a family relationship, a stock or kindred or generation of evil versus a generation of Holiness.

1st Peter 2:9

• "But ye are a chosen generation [genea], a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:"

Honestly, do you think God's children of the "40 years" Peter were addressing the only chosen generation, seriously? Or is Peter declaring a chosen family that reaches the election today? That is the question, Hammster! And the answer is obvious. ..at least to those handling Scripture honestly. The elect is a chosen family, a holy family, a special family, a peculiar family, called out from the wicked and adulterous family, the generation of vipers. One family shall no sign be given, the other family sees it as the sign of Jonah, Christ's resurrection from the dead. Selah.

Now let us look at Luke 11:30...

Luke 11:30

• "For as Jonas was a sign unto the Ninevites, so shall also the Son of man be to this generation"

And you think Christ was talking about a literal 40 years generation?

Okay, Let's test your theory.

Let's change the word "generation" to 40 years.

"...so shall also the Son of man be to this 40 years."

Does this make sense? Of course not.

Now try "family"

"...so shall also the Son of man be to this family."

The question is WHAT family? Of course, it is the family that sees Jonas as a sign, not the family that no sign will be given because it is an evil and adulterous family. The only sign that's given is the sign that they cannot see because they don't accept the authority of Scripture. This is the magnificent salvation program of Christ. Selah. Consider when Christ contrasted the family of God with the family of the devil He said that they were wiser than were in a certain way.

Luke 16:8

• "And the lord commended the unjust steward, because he had done wisely: for the children of this world are in their generation wiser than the children of light."

Does that make sense if we say the children of this world in their 40 years are wiser? It is clear God is referring to them as a carnal worldly family? Generation there means their clan or family relationship as children of the Devil rather than children of light. Again, God illustrates two distinct types of children--two families [genea], translated as generations. A Holy Nation (all saved in Christ) v.s. the evil generation (all unsaved people). The unsaved people are still here on Earth is becasue their evil generation will pass away until all thing are fulfilled. Nothing to do 70AD! Period.

“THIS generation”. The thread isn’t about the meaning of the word generation.

 

[Hammster]

Genos is not the same word as genea. Genea is not found in 1 peter 2:9 nor Philippians 3:5

It’s like deja vu all over again.

 

[DavidPT]

And that’s what happened. All those things preceding His statement happened whether or not it fits your theology.

Maybe the problem is, the way some of you understand 'fulfilled' is not the same way some of the rest of us understand 'fulfilled'? When we note Jesus having said---till all be fulfilled, a lot of us take Him to mean that when all is fulfilled, it can't continue to be fulfilled in future generations as well.

For example. Jesus said the following prior to Him having said this generation shall not pass, till all be fulfilled.

Mark 13:10 And the gospel must first be published among all nations.


No one that I know of disputes this was already being fulfilled prior to 70 AD. What is in question though, once 70 AD came and went, did or did this not continue to be fulfilled? Is it still being fulfilled today? If Mark 13:10 continues to be applicable throughout future generations, after that of 70 AD, and that this generation passed away in 70 AD or thereabouts, that disagrees with what Jesus said in Luke 21:32.

Mark 13:10 And the gospel must first be published among all nations.

Luke 21:32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.

The above equals what Jesus said in Luke 21:32 since it has Mark 13:10 only being applicable prior to this generation passing away.

Mark 13:10 And the gospel must first be published among all nations.

Luke 21:32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.

Mark 13:10 And the gospel must first be published among all nations.


This, OTOH, contradicts what Jesus said in Luke 21:32 since it has Mark 13:10 being applicable prior to this generation passing away and also applicable after it has passed away. That does not equal all shall be fulfilled before this generation passes away, if this generation passes away before Mark 13:10 has even been fulfilled. Mark 13:10 obviously wasn't fulfilled in the first century if it is still being fulfilled today. Keeping in mind, 'fulfilled' to me means it has been fully fulfilled and doesn't continue to be fulfilled. An example of something that has been fully fulfilled, thus doesn't continue to be fulfilled, would be, Jesus died then rose from the dead. One can't apply Mark 13:10 in the same manner, at least not yet anyway.

 

[claninja]

Maybe the problem is, the way some of you understand 'fulfilled' is not the same way some of the rest of us understand 'fulfilled'? When we note Jesus having said---till all be fulfilled, a lot of us take Him to mean that when all is fulfilled, it can't continue to be fulfilled in future generations as well.

For example. Jesus said the following prior to Him having said this generation shall not pass, till all be fulfilled.

Mark 13:10 And the gospel must first be published among all nations.


No one that I know of disputes this was already being fulfilled prior to 70 AD. What is in question though, once 70 AD came and went, did or did this not continue to be fulfilled? Is it still being fulfilled today? If Mark 13:10 continues to be applicable throughout future generations, after that of 70 AD, and that this generation passed away in 70 AD or thereabouts, that disagrees with what Jesus said in Luke 21:32.

Mark 13:10 And the gospel must first be published among all nations.

Luke 21:32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.

The above equals what Jesus said in Luke 21:32 since it has Mark 13:10 only being applicable prior to this generation passing away.

Mark 13:10 And the gospel must first be published among all nations.

Luke 21:32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.

Mark 13:10 And the gospel must first be published among all nations.


This, OTOH, contradicts what Jesus said in Luke 21:32 since it has Mark 13:10 being applicable prior to this generation passing away and also applicable after it has passed away. That does not equal all shall be fulfilled before this generation passes away, if this generation passes away before Mark 13:10 has even been fulfilled. Mark 13:10 obviously wasn't fulfilled in the first century if it is still being fulfilled today. Keeping in mind, 'fulfilled' to me means it has been fully fulfilled and doesn't continue to be fulfilled. An example of something that has been fully fulfilled, thus doesn't continue to be fulfilled, would be, Jesus died then rose from the dead. One can't apply Mark 13:10 in the same manner, at least not yet anyway.

The word, in Matthew 24:34, isn’t “fulfilled”, as in “brought to completion”. It’s “γένηται” which means “to happen” or “to become”.

“this generation might not pass away until all these things might happen”

Paul stated that the gospel had been preached to the every creature under heaven (Colossians 1:23). This doesn’t mean the preaching the of the gospel has been “brought to completion”. It simply means that the preaching of the gospel to the whole world “happened” or “took place” in Paul’s day.

 

[DavidPT]

The word, in Matthew 24:34, isn’t “fulfilled”, as in “brought to completion”. It’s “γένηται” which means “to happen” or “to become”.

“this generation might not pass away until all these things might happen”

Paul stated that the gospel had been preached to the every creature under heaven (Colossians 1:23). This doesn’t mean the preaching the of the gospel has been “brought to completion”. It simply means that the preaching of the gospel to the whole world “happened” or “took place” in Paul’s day.

Mark 13:30 Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done.

This is how the KJV translates the above verse.

The Greek word translated 'done' is ginomai.

ginomai
ghin'-om-ahee
a prolongation and middle voice form of a primary verb; to cause to be ("gen"-erate), i.e. (reflexively) to become (come into being), used with great latitude (literal, figurative, intensive, etc.):--arise, be assembled, be(-come, -fall, -have self), be brought (to pass), (be) come (to pass), continue, be divided, draw, be ended , fall, be finished , follow, be found, be fulfilled, + God forbid, grow, happen, have, be kept, be made, be married, be ordained to be, partake, pass, be performed, be published, require, seem, be showed, X soon as it was, sound, be taken, be turned, use, wax, will, would, be wrought.


Explain why what I have underlined above can't mean what 'done' means in verse 30 above, but has to be meaning something else among those definitions of ginomai?

Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be ended.

Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be finished.

 

[Hammster]

Maybe the problem is, the way some of you understand 'fulfilled' is not the same way some of the rest of us understand 'fulfilled'? When we note Jesus having said---till all be fulfilled, a lot of us take Him to mean that when all is fulfilled, it can't continue to be fulfilled in future generations as well.

For example. Jesus said the following prior to Him having said this generation shall not pass, till all be fulfilled.

Mark 13:10 And the gospel must first be published among all nations.


No one that I know of disputes this was already being fulfilled prior to 70 AD. What is in question though, once 70 AD came and went, did or did this not continue to be fulfilled? Is it still being fulfilled today? If Mark 13:10 continues to be applicable throughout future generations, after that of 70 AD, and that this generation passed away in 70 AD or thereabouts, that disagrees with what Jesus said in Luke 21:32.

Mark 13:10 And the gospel must first be published among all nations.

Luke 21:32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.

The above equals what Jesus said in Luke 21:32 since it has Mark 13:10 only being applicable prior to this generation passing away.

Mark 13:10 And the gospel must first be published among all nations.

Luke 21:32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.

Mark 13:10 And the gospel must first be published among all nations.


This, OTOH, contradicts what Jesus said in Luke 21:32 since it has Mark 13:10 being applicable prior to this generation passing away and also applicable after it has passed away. That does not equal all shall be fulfilled before this generation passes away, if this generation passes away before Mark 13:10 has even been fulfilled. Mark 13:10 obviously wasn't fulfilled in the first century if it is still being fulfilled today. Keeping in mind, 'fulfilled' to me means it has been fully fulfilled and doesn't continue to be fulfilled. An example of something that has been fully fulfilled, thus doesn't continue to be fulfilled, would be, Jesus died then rose from the dead. One can't apply Mark 13:10 in the same manner, at least not yet anyway.

It was fulfilled, per scripture. I dealt with it here: Preached in the whole world

 

[TribulationSigns]

“THIS generation”. The thread isn’t about the meaning of the word generation.

Your OP says otherwise. Christ was talking about this generation. The question is do you really understand what generation, family, and kindred Christ actually talked about here which you obviously don't.

It was the generation of evil that were/are/will be responsible for the blood of God's prophets from Abel to Zachariah to the last Elect of today! It was this generation, the fruit or offspring of Satan, who killed them. Who's responsible for the blood of the Prophets? Why, of course, it's Satan, and all those ruled over by him. And the end-time Church today is that same generation or family of Satan as Pharisees of Christ's day, and thus the same family that killed Abel, Jesus and Stephen. Again, see the context of the verse carefully:

Matthew 23:30-32

• "And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
• Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
• Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers."

Those people were not literally alive when their family killed the prophets, but God makes it perfectly clear that though they (like many today) protest that they are the good God-fearing congregation, in reality, they are the children of Satan. They are the same spiritual offspring of those who killed the prophets, and are measured the same as those who killed them. Who killed them? The generation of Evil, is the same generation they are. Selah.

Matthew 23:35-36

• " That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
• Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation."

What Generation? Certainly not the generation of Matthew, Mark Luke, and John of that physical/literal Generation. But the generation of evil, of which these in unbelief were. They were of that same kindred or spiritual family that killed the prophets, and thus will be judged the same for killing the prophets. Period. That word translated generation is [genea] from the root [genos] meaning kindred or family.

 

[Hammster]

Your OP says otherwise. Christ was talking about this generation. The question is do you really understand what generation, family, and kindred Christ actually talked about here which you obviously don't.

It was the generation of evil that were/are/will be responsible for the blood of God's prophets from Abel to Zachariah to the last Elect of today! It was this generation, the fruit or offspring of Satan, who killed them. Who's responsible for the blood of the Prophets? Why, of course, it's Satan, and all those ruled over by him. And the end-time Church today is that same generation or family of Satan as Pharisees of Christ's day, and thus the same family that killed Abel, Jesus and Stephen. Again, see the context of the verse carefully:

Matthew 23:30-32

• "And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
• Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
• Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers."

Those people were not literally alive when their family killed the prophets, but God makes it perfectly clear that though they (like many today) protest that they are the good God-fearing congregation, in reality, they are the children of Satan. They are the same spiritual offspring of those who killed the prophets, and are measured the same as those who killed them. Who killed them? The generation of Evil, is the same generation they are. Selah.

Matthew 23:35-36

• " That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
• Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation."

What Generation? Certainly not the generation of Matthew, Mark Luke, and John of that physical/literal Generation. But the generation of evil, of which these in unbelief were. They were of that same kindred or spiritual family that killed the prophets, and thus will be judged the same for killing the prophets. Period. That word translated generation is [genea] from the root [genos] meaning kindred or family.

I’m sorry you are late to the game. We dealt with this 1500 posts ago.


“Therefore, behold, I am sending you prophets and wise men and scribes; some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues, and persecute from city to city, so that upon you may fall the guilt of all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, the son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. Truly I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.
— Matthew 23:34-36

All of those references to “you” are second person plural. So they reference His immediate audience. So when He says this generation, He still has His immediate audience in mind.

And that’s when He notified them that their house would be left desolate. And it was. Within that generation.

 

[rwb]

We aren’t warned. They were warned.

The warning is to whosoever reads, "let him understand"!

 

[rwb]

I’m sorry you are late to the game. We dealt with this 1500 posts ago.

“Therefore, behold, I am sending you prophets and wise men and scribes; some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues, and persecute from city to city, so that upon you may fall the guilt of all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, the son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. Truly I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.
— Matthew 23:34-36

All of those references to “you” are second person plural. So they reference His immediate audience. So when He says this generation, He still has His immediate audience in mind.

And that’s when He notified them that their house would be left desolate. And it was. Within that generation.

Yet many are still reading and that equates to "you" who share the guilt of all the righteous blood shed on earth. How do WE know this to be true? Because the blood shed of the righteous has not ended! As long as Israel; meaning both Israel of flesh, and Israel of God remain upon the earth, the end has not yet come, therefore Christ has not yet come. There are only two people kinds/generation/nations on earth, and ALL of them either belong to Israel from above, or of the kind/generation/nation that are evil, and guilty of shedding righteous blood.

 

[Hammster]

The warning is to whosoever reads, "let him understand"!

When the original audience read it, they would have been those readers.