This generation

[Zao is life]

The Strong's I'm using might have typos then. It's a software version and when I click on the word 'this' in verse 36, the following is the result.

5026
tauth
taute
tow'-tay,
tauten tow'-tane, and tautes tow'-tace dative case, accusative case and genitive case respectively of the feminine singular of outoV - houtos 3778; (towards or of) this:--her, + hereof, it, that, + thereby, the (same), this (same).

I think that word tauta is what is translated as "these things" (these things shall not pass). It's not the word translated as "this" in "this generation", which is houtos. Remember the Greek sentence order is back-to-front and upside-down compared with English (and vice-versa).

 

[rwb]

Right, and the generation that would experience the tribulation He was talking about was the specific generation He was giving the warnings and information to, no matter what century or millennium the events were to occur.

I believe the nation or seed of their father Abraham experienced the wrath of God through the Roman Army, but Christians experience great tribulation in this life. I believe that when Christ said "For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be", He was not limiting great tribulation to any one age, but that great tribulation would come upon the church on earth as she proclaims the Gospel of salvation unto all the world. So yes, I too believe the first century Jewish Christians experienced great tribulation, and it was greater than what the nation experienced during the siege by Rome when the city and Temple were utterly destroyed.

 

[Hammster]

Prove that with Mark 13:37 as well.

Mark 13:37 And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.

What exactly am I to prove?

 

[Hammster]

That's just a false claim Claninja makes. Wrath is only mentioned when the armies gather around Jerusalem (Luke 21:20-24). The entire context of the rest of Luke and Matthew 24 and Mark 13 is talking about the tribulation and great tribulation of the saints.

People ignore context where and when it pleases them.

It seems that is what futurists do with the OD.

 

[Hammster]

They were His audience. But the prophesy is clearly not limited to those living in Judea of the first century after Christ. "This generation", the natural/native Israel are fairly well dispersed throughout the world.

It doesn’t matter how far they are dispersed. It is a time reference.

 

[Hammster]

What I am saying is that the generations (genea) of Christ consist of 14 generations (genea) from Abraham to Christ. The contemporaries or natural/native seed of Abraham does not end with Christ, only the genealogical record does. Christ is speaking to His contemporaries, the generation living the same time He lived. But it is clear that many more contemporaries of the generation alive in the days of Christ have not ended! That cannot be argued against because Israel still exist from the time of Christ to today.

It’s not plural. It’s singular. He did not say “these generations”.

 

[Zao is life]

It seems that is what futurists do with the OD.

I can't argue with that statement, but there is a better reason for futurists taking the OD out of context: The fact that Jesus has not yet returned and part of the Olive Discourse is the coming of the son of Man.

What is even more astonishing to me is that we Christians don't notice how we are as confused about the statements in Biblical prophecy as the Jews were in the early 1st century when Jesus walked the earth in Galilee, Judea and Samaria.

No. We're even more confused.

 

[Hammster]

Christ is speaking of things that would not only come upon His people Israel, living at the same time He lived, but He is also speaking of things that would come upon the whole earth, such as:

Matthew 24:14 (KJV) And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Preached in the whole world

 

[Hammster]

Preterism makes a pretty good case until you get to Revelation. When was the world under the control of one leader? Who were the beast and the false prophet? When did a world leader get killed and come back to life? What was the mark of the beast and when were people killed who didn't accept it? Who were the two witnesses who had miraculous powers? Revelation 20 makes it clear a millennial kingdom will exist on the earth for 1,000 years.

The problem with these types of posts is the non-specificity. You make these grand statements as if all of these references are both known and agreed up. It plays well to the fans, but is very shallow upon examination.

 

[Hammster]

I can't argue with that statement, but there is a better reason for futurists taking the OD out of context: The fact that Jesus has not yet returned and part of the Olive Discourse is the coming of the son of Man.

What is even more astonishing to me is that we Christians don't notice how we are as confused about the statements in Biblical prophecy as the Jews were in the early 1st century when Jesus walked the earth in Galilee, Judea and Samaria.

No. We're even more confused.

He did come on the clouds, as He said. This generation means this generation.

 

[DavidPT]

He did come on the clouds, as He said.

That is not true yet, though. If it is true, what did He come on the clouds to do at the time? Can you answer that, in light of everything I submit below? The coming in question is meaning after the trib of those days, whatever those days are referring to, and is after/during when the sun is darkened, and is after the sign of the Son of man in heaven


Matthew 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand: )
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.


Since Jesus wasn't confused about anything, verses 23-26 clearly prove the coming in verse 30 has not occurred at this point. Meaning up until verse 26 in Matthew 24.

Matthew 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

This is telling us how He comes. This is not meaning the coming recorded in verse 30 has now happened at this point in time. There is still the following first.

Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:


The coming recorded in verse 30 still hasn't occurred at this point.

Matthew 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

This is when Matthew 24:27 is fulfilled. Which then leads to what is recorded in verse 31 and leads to all of the following. And not just that, also what is recorded in the remainder of Matthew 24 following verse 41.

Matthew 24:39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Who do Preterists think were in the field and who do they think were grinding at the mill when the coming recorded in verse 30 allegedly occurred 2000 years ago? Do Preterists think verses 40-41 was happening in Jerusalem when it was being overthrown and destroyed by the Romans? Imagine picturing verse 41 taking place in Jerusalem while it is being destroyed. It can't get much more nonsensical than that if verse 41 is somehow applicable to the events of 70 AD.

Why I'm asking you these things, is beyond me? Since all you seem to have is one liners for answers, which don't solve anything one way or the other.

 

[BPPLEE]

The problem with these types of posts is the non-specificity. You make these grand statements as if all of these references are both known and agreed up. It plays well to the fans, but is very shallow upon examination.

It's very specific. You have no answer apparently

 

[Jeffwhosoever]

This guy makes some good points:
Did Christ Already Return?

 

[Hammster]

That is not true yet, though. If it is true, what did He come on the clouds to do at the time? Can you answer that, in light of everything I submit below? The coming in question is meaning after the trib of those days, whatever those days are referring to, and is after/during when the sun is darkened, and is after the sign of the Son of man in heaven


Matthew 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand: )
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.


Since Jesus wasn't confused about anything, verses 23-26 clearly prove the coming in verse 30 has not occurred at this point. Meaning up until verse 26 in Matthew 24.

Matthew 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

This is telling us how He comes. This is not meaning the coming recorded in verse 30 has now happened at this point in time. There is still the following first.

Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:


The coming recorded in verse 30 still hasn't occurred at this point.

Matthew 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

This is when Matthew 24:27 is fulfilled. Which then leads to what is recorded in verse 31 and leads to all of the following. And not just that, also what is recorded in the remainder of Matthew 24 following verse 41.

Matthew 24:39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Who do Preterists think were in the field and who do they think were grinding at the mill when the coming recorded in verse 30 allegedly occurred 2000 years ago? Do Preterists think verses 40-41 was happening in Jerusalem when it was being overthrown and destroyed by the Romans? Imagine picturing verse 41 taking place in Jerusalem while it is being destroyed. It can't get much more nonsensical than that if verse 41 is somehow applicable to the events of 70 AD.

Why I'm asking you these things, is beyond me? Since all you seem to have is one liners for answers, which don't solve anything one way or the other.

Are you actually wanting an answer?

 

[Hammster]

It's very specific. You have no answer apparently

Not really. It just assumes your position.

 

[Hammster]

This guy makes some good points:
Did Christ Already Return?

Second advent? No. On the clouds? Yes.

 

[DavidPT]

Are you actually wanting an answer?

In spite of what I said in that last paragraph, I do want an answer. But I want an answer in light of what all I brought up. Don't think you can do that in one sentence, though. Maybe a paragraph or two, but certainly not in one sentence.

 

[Hammster]

In spite of what I said in that last paragraph, I do want an answer. But I want an answer in light of what all I brought up. Don't think you can do that in one sentence, though. Maybe a paragraph or two, but certainly not in one sentence.

Here’s scripture concerning the coming on the clouds reference.


The oracle concerning Egypt.
Behold, the Lord is riding on a swift cloud and is about to come to Egypt;
The idols of Egypt will tremble at His presence,
And the heart of the Egyptians will melt within them.
— Isaiah 19:1


He lays the beams of His upper chambers in the waters;
He makes the clouds His chariot;
He walks upon the wings of the wind;
— Psalm 104:3

Not to mention, there are a plethora of clouds references throughout scripture that describe His presence or His judgement. So just like He came on the clouds to judge Egypt, He did the same with Jerusalem in that generation.

 

[BPPLEE]

Not really. It just assumes your position.

As long as you know how to get saved what you believe about this is not nearly as important. I think we will all find out we were wrong about some things one day

 

[Hammster]

As long as you know how to get saved what you believe about this is not nearly as important. I think we will all find out we were wrong about some things one day

That’s not pertinent to this thread.