This bugs me...the chosen people

[stranger]

It wasn't about our God "needing" a people, but about a promise (covenant) made to His servant.

I'm not quite sure why you see those as alternatives ?

God's plan requires a perfect priesthood to be set up at Jesus' return and God wanted to show His power by saying which nation He chose , from the beginning... that he did by making promises to them , such as :-

Ex 19:6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

Jesus was sent as their Messiah [annointed king] to set things up with a NEW covenant WITH THEM [Heb 8:6-13] , it all fits together as the written plan unfolding

 

[Ilovemyhusband]

I'm not quite sure why you see those as alternatives ?

God's plan requires a perfect priesthood to be set up at Jesus' return and God wanted to show His power by saying which nation He chose , from the beginning... that he did by making promises to them , such as :-

Ex 19:6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

Jesus was sent as their Messiah [annointed king] to set things up with a NEW covenant WITH THEM [Heb 8:6-13] , it all fits together as the written plan unfolding

However, if you will go to where Moses is in the tabernacle with the presence of the Lord and the Lord states that these are a stiff-necked and stubborn people. He wanted to wipe them out and make Moses's lineage the 'chosen people.' Moses had to remind God of His promise to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

Which goes back to what I said...He made a promise and kept it to His servant.

Point of reference for aforementioned: Exodus 32:8-14

 

[stranger]

However, if you will go to where Moses is in the tabernacle with the presence of the Lord and the Lord states that these are a stiff-necked and stubborn people. He wanted to wipe them out and make Moses's lineage the 'chosen people.' Moses had to remind God of His promise to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

Which goes back to what I said...He made a promise and kept it to His servant.

Point of reference for aforementioned: Exodus 32:8-14

Again , I completely agree with this, but it does not indicate that God did not require Israel [to become His priesthood] :-

Exodus 19:6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

Indeed He chose the bECAUSE they are stiff-necked and rebellious, to show that His love an truth are more powerful that these things , to SHOW His power !

De 9:29 Yet they are thy people and thine inheritance, which thou broughtest out by thy mighty power and by thy stretched out arm.
[God hardened the heart of Pharoah so that he could show His power]

Rom 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy,

thus poor Isreal are the means of God 's showing His power to all men , for that they have suffered more than any nation on earth , for that though they will yield the firstfruit saints of God [Rev 7:3-8] to extend the priesthood of the order of Melchizedek by 144,000 who then minister over billions in the new earth [Rev 7:9-10]

Thus God needed to declare His prophecy from the beginning , to declare Israel would be His priests to show that He could do that... so he needs Israel , no-one else would do ... the promise is because of the need, not the need bacause of the promise ...

 

[hlaltimus]

God chose the jewish people to work out his salvation through them. Why would God need to chose "A" people. Isn't our God big enough to chose all people? And wouldnt' that make more sense

It's a good question and there is an answer: The salvation of God was to be brought to man, provisionally, by means of a human substitute for men and women to do for them what they had failed to do themselves, and to suffer for them what they wished not to suffer themselves. This human substitute was commonly referred to among the Jewish people as the "Messiah". The reason why God chose ONE people to bring this Messiah from was, simply, because He only needed ONE Messiah! This is because the Messiah was not only to be truly man but truly God and as God He would have an infinite, intrinsic worth of such limitless value that one and only one was needed. The reason that God chose the Jewish people for this line of descendency was, in my opinion, purely sovereign. I am just glad that He just chose for us a Redeemer at all. Consider the alternative.

 

[stranger]

It's a good question and there is an answer: The salvation of God was to be brought to man, provisionally, by means of a human substitute for men and women to do for them what they had failed to do themselves, and to suffer for them what they wished not to suffer themselves. This human substitute was commonly referred to among the Jewish people as the "Messiah". The reason why God chose ONE people to bring this Messiah from was, simply, because He only needed ONE Messiah! This is because the Messiah was not only to be truly man but truly God and as God He would have an infinite, intrinsic worth of such limitless value that one and only one was needed. The reason that God chose the Jewish people for this line of descendency was, in my opinion, purely sovereign. I am just glad that He just chose for us a Redeemer at all. Consider the alternative.

Rather since God created ALL things, God also created evil [and freely admits this through His prophets] :-

La 3:38 Out of the mouth of the most High proceedeth not evil and good?

Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Thus God accepts all responsibility for creating Satan and creating all evil .... and makes that formal in the death of God [as Jesus] for all sin...

Simple as that!

 

[Ilovemyhusband]

Again , I completely agree with this, but it does not indicate that God did not require Israel [to become His priesthood] :-

Exodus 19:6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

Indeed He chose the bECAUSE they are stiff-necked and rebellious, to show that His love an truth are more powerful that these things , to SHOW His power !

De 9:29 Yet they are thy people and thine inheritance, which thou broughtest out by thy mighty power and by thy stretched out arm.
[God hardened the heart of Pharoah so that he could show His power]

Rom 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy,

thus poor Isreal are the means of God 's showing His power to all men , for that they have suffered more than any nation on earth , for that though they will yield the firstfruit saints of God [Rev 7:3-8] to extend the priesthood of the order of Melchizedek by 144,000 who then minister over billions in the new earth [Rev 7:9-10]

Thus God needed to declare His prophecy from the beginning , to declare Israel would be His priests to show that He could do that... so he needs Israel , no-one else would do ... the promise is because of the need, not the need bacause of the promise ...

Oh, I disagree. You see in my post above, the Lord sought to consume this people BECAUSE they were stubborn and stiff-necked, not so that He could show His love and power.

It was because Moses had a lowly, humble spirit that he begged for God to not wipe out the children of Israel on behalf of the promise He made to FAITHFUL servants like Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. He called out Abraham, because He saw that He would be a faithful and loving servant and His line would be.

God doesn't NEED a vessel, He chooses them. I.E. Mary (the mother of Jesus), Peter, Saul of Tarsus (Paul), etc.

 

[stranger]

Oh, I disagree. You see in my post above, the Lord sought to consume this people BECAUSE they were stubborn and stiff-necked, not so that He could show His love and power.

Again, these are not alternatives, first God rejects Israel and scatters BOTH Houses of the divided bnation amongst all nations... only the jews retaining their identity as Israel due to Judaism, much of the house of Israel [and all of the tribe of Ephraim] becoming paganised as the lost sheep of the House of Israel

but then God sifts the house of Israel through all nations only to swear by himself that he will re-unite His holy nation of priests [Exodus 19:6] into a re-united single kingdom , bringing the two Houses together under one Messiah of Israel [annointed king, 'Christ' from the Greek (from 'christos']]

Thus jesus was sent by God only to the scattered lost paganised sheep of the House of Israel to let them know that Jesus is that messiah that will re-unite all Israel, BOTH Houses, as a kingdom ogf priests at his return , and that to that end god has made a nEW covenant [Heb 8:6-13] with BOTH Houses which unconditionally forgives tham and removes the curse Israel took upon itself fro nOT keeping the old covenant ....

Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
...
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

It was because Moses had a lowly, humble spirit that he begged for God to not wipe out the children of Israel on behalf of the promise He made to FAITHFUL servants like Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. He called out Abraham, because He saw that He would be a faithful and loving servant and His line would be.

And indeed it is that promise through Jacob that the paganised gentile descendants of the House of Israel are already almost fully taking up... and when the fullness of these gentiles is come in, then more Jews will come to believe ...

Jews being made jealous by these who were 'not a people' ,who lost their nationhhood when the house of Israel disappaered , but who are now made the people of God under the new covenant [only] with Israel:-

Ro 10:19 But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you.

1Peter 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

So look at who obtains mercy under the new covenant [Jer 31:31-34, Heb 8:6-13] ... it is the House of Israel, the nation that disappeared and became paganised wherever it was scattered amongst al nations [UNLIKE the Jews, who never lost their nationhood, never became 'not a people' ,despite also being scattered wolrdwide

God doesn't NEED a vessel, He chooses them. I.E. Mary (the mother of Jesus), Peter, Saul of Tarsus (Paul), etc.

[/QUOTE]

God indeed did choose Israel , so he needed to create Israel in order to chose it ... and having chosen israel , He now nEEDS to redeem them first as His holy nation of priests and kings in order to fulfil countless promises made throughout scripture to Israel through God's prophets and Jesus , not least Exodus 19:6 ... Thus God will make His power known by recovering the House of Israel [many paganised as gentiles] and the house of Judah [Jews]

Ro 9:22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
25 As he saith also in Osee[Hosea chapter 1], I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.
26 And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.

 

[stranger]

De 7:7 The LORD did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:

a small nation of stiff-necked rebellious people, turned into saints [Rev 7:3-8] and then immortal/ priest-kings [Ex 19:6, 1Pet 2:9-10, Rev ] to serve billions redeemed in the new earth [Rev 7:9-10]

 

[Lauri4Him]

Acts 16:25 ¶And at midnight Paul and Silas prayed, and sang praises unto God: and the prisoners heard them.
26 And suddenly there was a great earthquake, so that the foundations of the prison were shaken: and immediately all the doors were opened, and every one's bands were loosed.
27 And the keeper of the prison awaking out of his sleep, and seeing the prison doors open, he drew out his sword, and would have killed himself, supposing that the prisoners had been fled.
28 But Paul cried with a loud voice, saying, Do thyself no harm: for we are all here.
29 Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas,
30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

In this story is explained very simply what we must do to be saved - Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. We also know that true believing changes us. We become a new creature - one that no longer sins. But once again I will repeat, this is available to all who will accept it.

2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

When the topic of election or being choosen is discussed, would you have someone give up before even seeking the Lord?

How can it be that as Christians we would put a stumbling block in someone's way to finding Christ? God invites all who will, to come.

1 Timothy 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

Isaiah 55:1 ¶Ho, every one that thirsteth, come ye to the waters, and he that hath no money; come ye, buy, and eat; yea, come, buy wine and milk without money and without price.

I would appeal to all who are bugged by the attitude of so-called Christians to ignore them and look to JESUS, HE is able to save YOU!

Ephesians 3:20 Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us,
21 Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.

Your sister in Christ
Lauri

 

[stranger]

Acts 16:25 ¶And at midnight Paul and Silas prayed, and sang praises unto God: and the prisoners heard them.
26 And suddenly there was a great earthquake, so that the foundations of the prison were shaken: and immediately all the doors were opened, and every one's bands were loosed.
27 And the keeper of the prison awaking out of his sleep, and seeing the prison doors open, he drew out his sword, and would have killed himself, supposing that the prisoners had been fled.
28 But Paul cried with a loud voice, saying, Do thyself no harm: for we are all here.
29 Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas,
30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

In this story is explained very simply what we must do to be saved - Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. We also know that true believing changes us. We become a new creature - one that no longer sins. But once again I will repeat, this is available to all who will accept it.

2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

When the topic of election or being choosen is discussed, would you have someone give up before even seeking the Lord?

How can it be that as Christians we would put a stumbling block in someone's way to finding Christ? God invites all who will, to come.

1 Timothy 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

Isaiah 55:1 ¶Ho, every one that thirsteth, come ye to the waters, and he that hath no money; come ye, buy, and eat; yea, come, buy wine and milk without money and without price.

I would appeal to all who are bugged by the attitude of so-called Christians to ignore them and look to JESUS, HE is able to save YOU!

Ephesians 3:20 Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us,
21 Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.

Your sister in Christ
Lauri

Hello Lauri,
nice to hear from you

Consider perhaps these things which one must go through eventually in the belief in Jesus to be saved :-

-1. One is called by God to repent [note one is called BEFORE one repents, it is a gift of God, just saying one repents and saying one believes in God because some preacher threaten sone with terrible things if one doesn't do what he asks [and maybe give himsome money] just isn't what God is talking about!
Clearly once one is called one wants to start turning one's life around, to begin the long hard trek back to perfection, to righteousness, to stopping sinning for good ... thus the step one takes in declaring this intent is to get baptised in water... it is a simple ritual ,just a public decalartion f one's being called to change the direction one is facing, the TURNING point in one's life to stop going the wrong way, NOT the end of the journey by a long way!


-2. One has then to find out from scripture or prayer to God for His truth WHEN one will receive baptism of the spirit leading to all truth of God , as promised by Jesus to ALL his true followers [John 16:13]

This is the point where almost all who sprang up joyfully at being called fall at the first hurdle because ther is so much being taught in this world that is not true to scripture ... simply observe for YOURSELF that very few in this world get led into ALL truth of God before they die!

Christianity is DEEPLY divided into tens of thousands of CREEDS of men ... men following creeds instead of following ONE truth of God ... but ask YOURSELF how many of those creeds even COULD be the ONE truth of God when they all DISAGREE !!

So it is very obvious indeed that christinity has gone way astray... and when one reads scripture for ONESELF asking ONLY God what it means, one gets a very dIFFERENT picture of God's ONE truth than from ANY of these denominational and cultish creeds of tradition of men !!

That seems surprising at first maybe, but after a little more study one finds out that it was PROPHESIED even by Jesus that this is exactly what wil and MUST happen to christianity as the days of power of the antchrist over almost all the world approach [Rev 13:3-7]

Col 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

Thus we find philosophy [largely PAGAN Greek philosophy] dominating the religion of christianity in place of the scriptures and assigning new meanings into the scriptures [called 'exegesis', supposedly revealing the true meaning of scripture, but one cannot do that by philosophy,one has to ask God !! ]

Also the vanity expresses itself in denominationalism and cultism by the insistence that one tradition has all truth of God and no other tradition has any truth where it disagrees ... it is an unwillingness in men of religious traditions to accept reproof from the scriptures , but rather preferring to alter the menaings assigned to scriptures to suit their private interpretations of them :-

2Pe 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

The way then to the truth of God is simply to ask Him ! ... but many run to ask men instead ... it seems easier than yearning to God for His truth, but ...

So eventually one will find out that God will baptise ALL men into ALL His truth [Acts 2:17, John 16:13] ...

That sounds great, all men will eventually have ALL God's truthand so be able to resist Satan's wiles !

Then men can live righteously at last , not sin ... then men's love can be PERFECTED in trial of their faith in LOVE [God's law of loving God and loving all men] , their faith in Jesus ! ...

then as perfected saints , righteous at last, without sin, many men will be ready to be redeemed to immortal spirit ... awesome !!!

BUT WHEN willit happen, HOW will it happen ?

This unsurprisingly is explained in scripture... but also unsurprisingly [if you followed me so far] men have gotten it very wrong in their tradition... in their unreprovable creeds ... so much so that very many will not now accept reproof from scripture and even spend their time praying to god that He accept their tradition in place of what He has said in scripture ... that is the extent of the apostasy , and remember Jesus has said it MUST happen so , so here it is with us in modern deeply divided christianity that we know is not the united truth of god simply because God's truth is not divided, but ONE truth !

Thus it will be easy indeed for the antichrist to pull all christianity together into one creed soon ... but read in Rev 13:3-7 what JESUS SAYS that one creed will be about... christianity will go from gross division today to an even worse state .. and it MUST happen before Jesus returns to begin sorting things out ...

The reason I point to all these things is that it shows us inthe world what God inspired to be written in scripture , that only VERY FEW receive baptism of the spirit in THIS world [Rev7:3-8] to be saints NOW, but very MANY are redeemed AFTER this wordl [Rev 7:9-10] after God pours His spirit out ON ALL FLESH[ Acts 2:17, Joel 2:28] toward redeeming the MANY of all nations

The point then is that God will save His chosen PRIESTHOOD first s that they can minister in the righteous new earth in the redemption of billions...

It means that almost all christianity is already wrong in thinking that one can ONLY be saved in this world ...the scripture shows otherwise, that almost all are saved AFTER this world...

It thus makes a BIG difference whether one listens to men or to the scripture and God ...

although it makes no difference at all to WHETHER one is saved, it does make a BIG difference to one's knowledge of WHEN one will be saved

 

[Godslilgurlalways]

Yes, God is able to do that but God looks after the heart.Not everyone was truly for God at that time. Sure there was reglion maybe that were really of God and also at the same time there were "fake" also known today as vitual christians. Not all the time more is better I mean he only had 12 diciplines and they did lot for just having 12 That would be why there is only a trinty sometimes the more the worst.

 

[stranger]

Yes, God is able to do that but God looks after the heart.Not everyone was truly for God at that time. Sure there was reglion maybe that were really of God and also at the same time there were "fake" also known today as vitual christians. Not all the time more is better I mean he only had 12 diciplines and they did lot for just having 12 That would be why there is only a trinty sometimes the more the worst.

Good point , the kingdom of God grows like a seed , from small beginnings, just ONE Jesus, then twelve disciples, then 144,000 saints [Rev 7:3-8] of tribal Israel, then ALL Israel as priests and kings [Exodus 19:6] , then the countless many of all nations [Rev 7:9-10] after that in the new earth

 

[Godslilgurlalways]

Thanks stranger it means alot God bless you now and forever

 

[stranger]

Thanks stranger it means alot God bless you now and forever

thanks and it means a lot to me too ... ur welcome , and it was you who made the point

My His peace bless you always

 

[Godslilgurlalways]

thanks and it means a lot to me too ... ur welcome , and it was you who made the point

My His peace bless you always

I don't know what else to write so I will write God bless you

 

[stranger]

So returning to the theme of the thread...

Do you see that the FEW of Israel ,chosen to be saints and baptised of the spirit in this world toward that perfection in trial of faith that must preceed redemption, are only chosen FIRST because they needs must minister to the MANY afterward in the new earth... ?

That thus almost all men are mistaken, that redemption of the many is in the new earth ?

That the MANY who go by the broad way are redeemed [Rev 7:9-10] BECAUSE the FEW minister as priests and kings to the MANY in the righteous new earth?

 

[gospalDreams261]

that was a really good question Kau2u!!! It's great that your asking!!!

 

[gospalDreams261]

That was a really good question Kau2u!!!

 

[stranger]

That was a really good question Kau2u!!!

So may I ask you to say what did you make of the answers proffered ?

 

[Ccann]

agreed