This bugs me...the chosen people

clmanning

Regular Member
Mar 11, 2008
153
6
United States
✟7,820.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
As Serapha posits, we don't know who else God offered his Grace to. God made man, and choose man. Isreal choose God. The Tribes of Isreal are the choosen people. but the choosing was done by them - not God.
Israel did not choose God!!!! God chose Abram. God chose Isaac. God chose Jacob. God chose Moses. Jesus chose Matthew, James, John, Peter, Paul and the rest. We do not choose God, God chooses us!
 
Upvote 0

clmanning

Regular Member
Mar 11, 2008
153
6
United States
✟7,820.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Deuteronomy 7:7

The Lord did not set his love upon you, or CHOOSE YOU because you were more in number than any people ...for you were the FEWEST of all people.(8) But because the Lord loved you..........

Adam was the first of the Jewish race. We trace the lineage of the Jewish nation from Adam. The very man God created. And from Eve...the woman God created from Adam.
We can trace this through Biblical records, as the Bible itself is a record of the Jewish nation from Adam.
Adam was not Jewish. How can Adam be a decendent of Judah when Judah was born many many many years after Adam was dead? To say that Adam was the first Jew would be to say that we are all Jewish since we all decended from Adam.
 
Upvote 0

visionary

Your God is my God... Ruth said, so say I.
Supporter
Mar 25, 2004
56,917
8,033
✟572,538.44
Faith
Messianic
Adam was not Jewish. How can Adam be a decendent of Judah when Judah was born many many many years after Adam was dead? To say that Adam was the first Jew would be to say that we are all Jewish since we all decended from Adam.
That would put you in the same boat and the opportunity to be chosen by God... All I want is to be like Samuel... who gets to hear His voice and say " Here I am"
 
Upvote 0

clmanning

Regular Member
Mar 11, 2008
153
6
United States
✟7,820.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Not how God glorifies Himself, but how does God need to glorify Himself? IOW, why would God need to glorify Himself? I have a hard time imagining God being insecure.[/size][/font]

So what is the purpose of the self-glorification?
I may be wrong, but IMO God glorifies Himself to make Himself known to man as the one true and living God. He glorifies Himself above everything that we call god.
 
Upvote 0

clmanning

Regular Member
Mar 11, 2008
153
6
United States
✟7,820.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
That would put you in the same boat and the opportunity to be chosen by God... All I want is to be like Samuel... who gets to hear His voice and say " Here I am"
Huh???

See if you follow this line of reasoning?

All Jews are Israelites, but all Israelites are not Jews.
All Israelites are children of Abraham, but not all children of Abraham are Israelites.
All Abrahamites are Hebrews, but not all Hebrews are Abrahamites.
All Hebrews are Semites, but not all Semites are Hebrews.
All Semites are Adamites (Humans), but not all Adamites are Semites.
 
Upvote 0

visionary

Your God is my God... Ruth said, so say I.
Supporter
Mar 25, 2004
56,917
8,033
✟572,538.44
Faith
Messianic
Yep... and salvation is offered to all... even before Christ came... Remember Nineveh ... Think about the wise men from the east... Think about the eunich.. Think about Ruth...l am sure there are many others not recorded. The point is... God's choosen people... the jews are only standing out in the crowd because they kept the oracles of God and fumbling represented a nation under God.
 
Upvote 0

huldah153

Well-Known Member
Mar 15, 2007
501
13
✟742.00
Faith
The Israelites were chosen only to guard a spiritual promise made to humankind. That promise is Jesus Christ. Christ was to be born of a special lineage from Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Judah, David etc.

The Israelites were not a Holy people. In fact, the Northern ten-tribed Israel kingdom was slaughtered by God in 721 BC as punishment for their sins. The remaining two tribes, Judah and Benjamin, were forced to assimilate with the Idumeans after the conquest of Idumea by John Hyrcanus in 125 BC. From there, they resettled into the nation known as 'Judea'.

Anyone can become chosen if they are in Christ. For as Paul said, "If ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise." (Gal 3:29).
 
Upvote 0

slymattb

New Member
Mar 17, 2008
4
0
✟7,623.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
In Relationship
The only thing that I think to add is that the Jews were the only ones to study the old testiement. For the most part the Jews were suppost to be the ones following God's word. Which they didnt. God chose The jews, who are we to question Gods will.

End the end he knew what would happen. Jesus was coming to earth before there was even a Jew in the first place. God knew that he would in the end choose salvation for all. He had to start somewhere. You cant get all to follow or hear the word right away. So he start with the promise to Abraham.
 
Upvote 0

OldStudent

Junior Member
Feb 24, 2007
434
21
central Ohio
✟8,188.00
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
This thread is old. I have not read the whole thread so this idea may have surfaced along the way. If so this is just another witness to it.

God created Adam in a perfect state - including the right and opportunity to choose our own way. We took it. But God didn't leave us to perish. With Cain and Able we see the formation of a major dicotomy in the human race - those who find God and His design worthy of honor and those who don't. With the Fall the society of this world seceeded from the union of the general society of the universe. Yet through history there has always been an embassy and ambassadors who remain in allegiance to God and His society.

During the early millenia God's society was associated along a family line - the partriarchs. Eventually this grew to the proportions of a nation. Shortly after Jesus Christ this passed a metamorphesis to the chruch. All along the way God desired any and all who would to join His society. Those who received the invitation would find themselves drawn to the appropriate place where His people were. God never desired a chosen EXCLUSOVE people who shunned new comers. He has long and earnestly extened invitations to do so. God, due to the quality of love, could not force everyone into His mould. He would choose everyone but since not everyone chooses Him we are left seeing the chosen and the not chosen - the choice being ours - not His.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

homeofmew

Master Trainer
Supporter
May 29, 2005
1,473
1,480
38
Houston, Texas
Visit site
✟28,964.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
All this means is that they are the people that the Messiah will come out of. I don't care really If I am "chosen" or "Predestined" by God. I would like to believe I make my own choice and there is free will. However God knows what I am gonna do anyway.

Being that it is I just see what he wants out of me :/
 
Upvote 0

clmanning

Regular Member
Mar 11, 2008
153
6
United States
✟7,820.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
The only thing that I think to add is that the Jews were the only ones to study the old testiement. For the most part the Jews were suppost to be the ones following God's word. Which they didnt. God chose The jews, who are we to question Gods will.

End the end he knew what would happen. Jesus was coming to earth before there was even a Jew in the first place. God knew that he would in the end choose salvation for all. He had to start somewhere. You cant get all to follow or hear the word right away. So he start with the promise to Abraham.

You are absolutely right! The Hebrews had the OT Scriptures, the Law and the Prophets. They had knowledge of all the prophecies concerning the Messiah. And, they are the very ones who sought the live blood of our Lord.

If our Lord would come here today, it would be the organized church that would seek His life blood now. Nothing has changed, there is nothing new under the sun.

The kingdom of Heaven is at hand, nearer to you than your very breath. The Righteous King is soon coming to judge the quick and the dead. Are you ready? I set before you the choice of life or death. Choose LIFE in the only Begotten Son of YHWH our Father and our God.
 
Upvote 0

JTKIRK

Junior Member
Mar 9, 2008
109
8
✟7,788.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
God chose the jewish people to work out his salvation through them. Why would God need to chose "A" people. Isn't our God big enough to chose all people? And wouldnt' that make more sense:sigh:
I think having to make 100 posts before joining into the sub-forums unfair So to make up 199 I am posting this.
 
Upvote 0

fiasps

Newbie
May 24, 2008
0
1
UK
✟15,144.00
Faith
Muslim
God chose the jewish people to work out his salvation through them. Why would God need to chose "A" people. Isn't our God big enough to chose all people? And wouldnt' that make more sense:sigh:

You have been programmed to think that there is a "choosen people"!

The Jews always say that the land of Israel was promised to them by God and therfore belongs only to them. Unless I have missed something?

In the book of Genesis 12:7 God said to Abraham:
And the Lord appeared to Abraham, and said to him: To thy seed will I give this land. And he built there an altar to the Lord, who had appeared to him.

But if you analyse the verse – the land has been promised to the seed (offspring/children) of Abraham. The verse does not make a distinction as to which children and refers to all the children of Abraham. The Jews, Christians, and Muslims are all the offsring of Abraham - they had the common father Abraham but different mothers. Therefore the land of Israel belongs to all and not just the Jews.

Abraham is my ancestor and his progeny either directly or indirectly are my ancestors. As the verse (Genesis 12:7) says the land has been given to his offsprings - it is not limited to anyone.

Abraham had many wives and many children so for example Issac son of Abraham and Sara went on to form the 12 jewish tribes and Ishmael son of Abrham and Hagar went on to form the muslim tribes and similarly the children of abraham and ketura formed tribes also. So, Genesis 12:7 applies to all these tribes
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

LadyGarnetRose

Frum Reconstructionist (pm me for details)
Nov 18, 2006
720
79
Las Vegas, NV
✟16,258.00
Faith
Judaism
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
You have been programmed to think that there is a "choosen people"!

The Jews always say that the land of Israel was promised to them by God and therfore belongs only to them. Unless I have missed something?

In the book of Genesis 12:7 God said to Abraham:
And the Lord appeared to Abraham, and said to him: To thy seed will I give this land. And he built there an altar to the Lord, who had appeared to him.

But if you analyse the verse – the land has been promised to the seed (offspring/children) of Abraham. The verse does not make a distinction as to which children and refers to all the children of Abraham. The Jews, Christians, and Muslims are all the offsring of Abraham - they had the common father Abraham but different mothers. Therefore the land of Israel belongs to all and not just the Jews.

Abraham is my ancestor and his progeny either directly or indirectly are my ancestors. As the verse (Genesis 12:7) says the land has been given to his offsprings - it is not limited to anyone.

Abraham had many wives and many children so for example Issac son of Abraham and Sara went on to form the 12 jewish tribes and Ishmael son of Abrham and Hagar went on to form the muslim tribes and similarly the children of abraham and ketura formed tribes also. So, Genesis 12:7 applies to all these tribes

Actually you aren't exactly correct, it says "Will give" repeatedly not that it has been given. Until the covenant is made, there was no giving.

Genesis 17 is very clear about who "gets the land" and it is not all the progeny but those that continue to uphold the covenant made in Gen 17.

Otherwise, they are to be cast out.
 
Upvote 0

fiasps

Newbie
May 24, 2008
0
1
UK
✟15,144.00
Faith
Muslim
Actually you aren't exactly correct, it says "Will give" repeatedly not that it has been given. Until the covenant is made, there was no giving.

Genesis 17 is very clear about who "gets the land" and it is not all the progeny but those that continue to uphold the covenant made in Gen 17.

Otherwise, they are to be cast out.

The bible is not a story book or like any other common book. thats the language of the bible - "Will I give" were all his seed born at that time? no. the verse/words need to encompase all. Your just playing with words now.

Please tell me who has upheld the covenant?
 
Upvote 0