This bugs me...the chosen people

[Tishri1]

God chose Adam, and he rejected God. God did not give up.

Amen

 

[Tishri1]

Dear Stranger, I just reread my last few posts and realized I was getting increasingly harder and harder on you, and for what? I didn't intend for my emotions to get so riled up and there for I ask for your forgiveness...My passion for unity and peace has caused me to do the very thing I don't like ...to pick a fight.


Please , Accept my apology and I will try to be a nicer sister from now on

 

[stranger]

Dear Stranger, I just reread my last few posts and realized I was getting increasingly harder and harder on you, and for what? I didn't intend for my emotions to get so riled up and there for I ask for your forgiveness...My passion for unity and peace has caused me to do the very thing I don't like ...to pick a fight.


Please , Accept my apology and I will try to be a nicer sister from now on

You know that you are forgiven just for the asking, but i still do not have any idea what it was that you misunderstood ... i am actually very interested in whatever it is that you disagree with ... and am more than ready to be reproved if what i said was mistaken ... so please , without any fighting at all, simply tell me what it is that you disagree with ... you may yet find that we do not really disagree at all or that the scripture resolves the matter easily ...

so will you not talk to me about it ?

there will be no fight because I have no desire to change anyone elses beliefs and certainly no desire to fight anyone or even compete with anyone and God is but one truth that we sall ALL have to come into one day ... for now thenlet us discuss what we have gleaned so far and treat each other lovingly whilst we discuss matters in our ignorance of ALL God's truth in ALL of us bar His few saints ... let us accept our vulnerability in not yet knowing all truth and talk as equals with equal right tobe right or wrong about what we believe until God pours out his truth by His spirit on all of us [sadly not in this life (except fot his few saints of Israel) according to Joel 2:28 and Acts 2:17 - our children simply do not prophecy as yet and so many have died -without this baptsim of the spirit- according to this scripture , yet
MUST receive it therefore after the second resurrection since this says ALL flesh will receive it some time ... thus those labelled as 'dying in sin' are far from lost , Jesus did indeed come to save all sinners , as he clamed ]

Good news from scripture then ?

 

[stranger]

well why don't you read a few books from those guys then, and you will see their original intent was to answer a few questions: Why does this overwhelming desire to get back to the Jewish Roots of Christianity exist among Gentile Believers?

It is true that many seek roots in 'visble Israel' , the Jews, but there are two points in scripture which make that unwise :-

-1. Those who make Israel 'jealous' [with their knowledge of the Messiah of all Israel] are described as "not a people" by prophecy of Moses :-

De 32:21 ...and I will move them to jealousy with those which are not a people; I will provoke them to anger with a foolish nation.

I think it is true [correct me if I am wrong here] that the Jews jhave never become "not a people" , they have always been a nation united [and divided LOL?] in Judaism ..

THUS part of the root of christianity is this "foolish nation" who lost their nationhood , became "not a people" amongst the gentiles [since any who lived with the Jews became Jews]

It is more than fortuitous then that the bible says who are the foolish yet holy nation recognised by God who will make the Jews jealous [maybe very soon, maybe already happening] :-

Isa 7:8 ...and within threescore and five years shall Ephraim be broken, that it be not a people.

Now that in itself is unremarkable of course, many nations disappear in the same way as the house of Israel [very much dominated by Ephraim] did when it was scattered amongst all nations ...

but what is remarkable is that Jesus and God still regard the House of Israel as a separate nation from the House of Judah BY THE TIME OF JESUS ... thus the Jews are still united by that time, still one nation , which we might term 'the House of Judah' even though some from the house of Israel joined it and it thus contains some from many of the tribes of Israel besides the whole tribe of Judah and half the tribe of Levi... the Jews are still one nation at the time of Jesus and jesus is NOT ther kind at that time, they do not accept him , he has not then re-united israel at that time , the House of israel is still mostly separate from the Jews AND they are paganised as gentiles, unlike the Jews...

Am 9:9 For, lo, I will command, and I will sift the house of Israel among all nations, like as corn is sifted in a sieve, yet shall not the least grain fall upon the earth.

What then is remarkable is that Jesus is ONLY sent to the house of Isrela nd sends his disciples out [as does Paul] with the specific mission of going rather tothe house of israel , not to the Jews or the gentiles ... it does not mean that they do not have good news for all men, they do indeed have such good news, but their main mission is staed by Jesus as also beng his main mission :-

Mt 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Mt 10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Ac 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

The whole mass of people that Jesus gathered around him, mostly Jews , some maybe Jews whose ancestry goes back to those of the house of Israel who only joined the House of Judah on return to Jerusalem from captivity, BUt the whole entourage has ONE MAIN AIM: to get the message of the messiah of Israel and the NEW covenant with BOTH Houses of the divided nation of Israel [Heb 8:6-13] to the lost House of Israel , the descendants of Israel now paganised and living amongst the gentiles AND those who became Jews ...

Jesus is thus NOT concerned at resolving the matter of the lack of belief in him AT THAT TIME by the House of Judah [who are all Jews] sife he knows that the House of Judah will become 'jealous' later on, when they learn about 'their' Messiah from people who are largely gentiles [with maybe some Jews too], the lost House of Israel who unlike the Jews, lost their nationhood, became not a people, no longer recognied by themselves or by Jews as even being Israel, but God and Jesus and the saints and scripture know otherwise ...

thus we find that this foolish nation crops up in NT prophesy, that they are indeed also the people of God, along with the Jews, that they too are true descendants of Jacob :-

1Pet 2: 9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

We know these are not the Jews because the Jews never lost their identity as being Israel, the jews could never be said to have been "not a people" , yet the house of Israel is equally of Jacob, equally a nation, equally chosen peope of God ....and they are given the task of bringing in the Jews into knowledge of Jesus as the Messiah of Israel, making Jews jealous, at this very time, NOW! ...

Thus saints in THIS earth are from both Jews and gentiles but ALL are of tribal Israel ,all are descended from Jacob! .. either of the House of Judah , or the lost House of Israel

- SO, to ignore the House of Israel is to miss half the roots of christianity in Israel and to make the NT incomprehensible in terms of the OT , as has happened in much divided modern christianity ...people are so overwhelmed with finding a saviour that they forget that Jesus' main task in THIS earth is just to set up a perfect priesthood using a remnant of Israel, te saints of Israel ...

and that their own redemption is then ministered to by those priests in the new earth [summarised by Jesus in Rev 7:3-10] :-

Ex 19:6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.


Re 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Re 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

-2. God has said that He alone will teach , men only convey the good mnews, God does ALL the teaching under the new covenant :-

Heb 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.[ the new covennant, Heb 8:6-13]

Joh 6:45 ...And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.[Jesus]

Why are so many people (Gentiles)becoming interested in the 1st century Jewish believers and the way those believers lived and worshiped?

Simply because some realise that the apostasy [falling away -2Thess 2] is very real ... and they want to get back to the original

Why is this group identifing with Hebraic scripture, Hebrew Festivals, and Jews at this time in history?

Because God ahd it recorded in scripture what is holy, and men finally are noticing that everything that god has said is holy has been altered in modern christianity and pagan substitues intrduced inplace of all that is holy in scripture

Trying to find a way to answer these questions lead to the idea that there are 12 tribes and only 1 or 2 remain today and maybe the Father really is gathering the remaining 10 tribes home by giving them this love and desire to be united with the believing Messianic Jews of today...

There are 14 tribes named in scripture, the 12 original sons of jacob plus the two sons of Joseph whom Israel adopted as FULL sons of his own:-

Ge 48:5 And now thy two sons, Ephraim and Manasseh, which were born unto thee in the land of Egypt before I came unto thee into Egypt, are mine; as Reuben and Simeon, they shall be mine. [Israel speaking to Joseph]

Many if not all jews can trace which tribe that they are descended from [unlike those of the House of Israel who did not beome Jews] ... the teat thus might be if one could find a Jew descended from Ephraim , since god said that He would NOT lose any of Ephraim and I doubt from the scripture that any of ephraim ever became Jews ... thus I think Ephraim could still dominate in the House of Israel today , but they are paganised and do not know they are Ephraim excet when god baptises them with His spirit into all truth and they then come as gentiles to teach the truth of God to the Jews [one can teach the truth if one has all truth of God, as Jesus and the saints did and do] ( - and I do not teach, but simply point out the scriptures that teach)

It was never supposed to turn into another way to replace the Jews but to come under and graft into this sect of Judiasm called Messianic Judiasm

I do not quite understand what you are saying here, but god certainly nEVER intended replacing the House of judah and the house of Israel with anyone, the NEW testamnet is specifically with these two Houses [Heb 8:6-13, Jer 31:31-34] and many of these are Jews , at least some of the house of Israel though are not Jews even though they are descended from Israel [Jacob]

Thus it is the paganised House of israel who are grafted back into Israel , having been lost and become "not a people" for all these years, having become paganised as gentiles... the proof is given by Jesus, all the firtsfruit saints belong to twelve of the 14 tribes of Israel [Rev 7:3-8] according to Jesus himself

...Sadly we(Christians) seem to always turn into a group who wants to dominate Jews(believers or not) and that is where we always get into trouble...

That is indeed the history of christianity after Rome took it upon itself to take over from Jerusalem and alter christianity to exclude the Hebrews [even changing the day of worship to Sunday, from the Hebrew holy sabbath [not Saturday or Sunday, not any Roman day!]

Originally The two house movement was just a teaching that explained why all these Christian Gentiles were looking for their roots....that is all it was intended to do....

I know nothing of this movement , but like any denomination it falls over itself when it creates a creed separate from the scripture and without knowing all truth of God

 

[Tishri1]

Tishri1said

Originally The two house movement was just a teaching that explained why all these Christian Gentiles were looking for their roots....that is all it was intended to do....

Stranger said

I know nothing of this movement , but like any denomination it falls over itself when it creates a creed separate from the scripture and without knowing all truth of God

If you were aware that what you are teaching is just something that has caused a division between the Jew and the Christian, then wouldn't you want to change the subject for the sake of unity?

I do...

 

[The Virginian]

It is true that many seek roots in 'visble Israel' , the Jews, but there are two points in scripture which make that unwise :-

-1. Those who make Israel 'jealous' [with their knowledge of the Messiah of all Israel] are described as "not a people" by prophecy of Moses :-

De 32:21 ...and I will move them to jealousy with those which are not a people; I will provoke them to anger with a foolish nation.

I think it is true [correct me if I am wrong here] that the Jews jhave never become "not a people" , they have always been a nation united [and divided LOL?] in Judaism ..

THUS part of the root of christianity is this "foolish nation" who lost their nationhood , became "not a people" amongst the gentiles [since any who lived with the Jews became Jews]

It is more than fortuitous then that the bible says who are the foolish yet holy nation recognised by God who will make the Jews jealous [maybe very soon, maybe already happening] :-

Isa 7:8 ...and within threescore and five years shall Ephraim be broken, that it be not a people.

Now that in itself is unremarkable of course, many nations disappear in the same way as the house of Israel [very much dominated by Ephraim] did when it was scattered amongst all nations ...

but what is remarkable is that Jesus and God still regard the House of Israel as a separate nation from the House of Judah BY THE TIME OF JESUS ... thus the Jews are still united by that time, still one nation , which we might term 'the House of Judah' even though some from the house of Israel joined it and it thus contains some from many of the tribes of Israel besides the whole tribe of Judah and half the tribe of Levi... the Jews are still one nation at the time of Jesus and jesus is NOT ther kind at that time, they do not accept him , he has not then re-united israel at that time , the House of israel is still mostly separate from the Jews AND they are paganised as gentiles, unlike the Jews...

Am 9:9 For, lo, I will command, and I will sift the house of Israel among all nations, like as corn is sifted in a sieve, yet shall not the least grain fall upon the earth.

What then is remarkable is that Jesus is ONLY sent to the house of Isrela nd sends his disciples out [as does Paul] with the specific mission of going rather tothe house of israel , not to the Jews or the gentiles ... it does not mean that they do not have good news for all men, they do indeed have such good news, but their main mission is staed by Jesus as also beng his main mission :-

Mt 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Mt 10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Ac 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

The whole mass of people that Jesus gathered around him, mostly Jews , some maybe Jews whose ancestry goes back to those of the house of Israel who only joined the House of Judah on return to Jerusalem from captivity, BUt the whole entourage has ONE MAIN AIM: to get the message of the messiah of Israel and the NEW covenant with BOTH Houses of the divided nation of Israel [Heb 8:6-13] to the lost House of Israel , the descendants of Israel now paganised and living amongst the gentiles AND those who became Jews ...

Jesus is thus NOT concerned at resolving the matter of the lack of belief in him AT THAT TIME by the House of Judah [who are all Jews] sife he knows that the House of Judah will become 'jealous' later on, when they learn about 'their' Messiah from people who are largely gentiles [with maybe some Jews too], the lost House of Israel who unlike the Jews, lost their nationhood, became not a people, no longer recognied by themselves or by Jews as even being Israel, but God and Jesus and the saints and scripture know otherwise ...

thus we find that this foolish nation crops up in NT prophesy, that they are indeed also the people of God, along with the Jews, that they too are true descendants of Jacob :-

1Pet 2: 9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

We know these are not the Jews because the Jews never lost their identity as being Israel, the jews could never be said to have been "not a people" , yet the house of Israel is equally of Jacob, equally a nation, equally chosen peope of God ....and they are given the task of bringing in the Jews into knowledge of Jesus as the Messiah of Israel, making Jews jealous, at this very time, NOW! ...

Thus saints in THIS earth are from both Jews and gentiles but ALL are of tribal Israel ,all are descended from Jacob! .. either of the House of Judah , or the lost House of Israel

-

and that their own redemption is then ministered to by those priests in the new earth [summarised by Jesus in Rev 7:3-10] :-

Ex 19:6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.


Re 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Re 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

-2. God has said that He alone will teach , men only convey the good mnews, God does ALL the teaching under the new covenant :-

Heb 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.[ the new covennant, Heb 8:6-13]

Joh 6:45 ...And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.[Jesus]




Simply because some realise that the apostasy [falling away -2Thess 2] is very real ... and they want to get back to the original



Because God ahd it recorded in scripture what is holy, and men finally are noticing that everything that god has said is holy has been altered in modern christianity and pagan substitues intrduced inplace of all that is holy in scripture



There are 14 tribes named in scripture, the 12 original sons of jacob plus the two sons of Joseph whom Israel adopted as FULL sons of his own:-

Ge 48:5 And now thy two sons, Ephraim and Manasseh, which were born unto thee in the land of Egypt before I came unto thee into Egypt, are mine; as Reuben and Simeon, they shall be mine. [Israel speaking to Joseph]

Many if not all jews can trace which tribe that they are descended from [unlike those of the House of Israel who did not beome Jews] ... the teat thus might be if one could find a Jew descended from Ephraim , since god said that He would NOT lose any of Ephraim and I doubt from the scripture that any of ephraim ever became Jews ... thus I think Ephraim could still dominate in the House of Israel today , but they are paganised and do not know they are Ephraim excet when god baptises them with His spirit into all truth and they then come as gentiles to teach the truth of God to the Jews [one can teach the truth if one has all truth of God, as Jesus and the saints did and do] ( - and I do not teach, but simply point out the scriptures that teach)



I do not quite understand what you are saying here, but god certainly nEVER intended replacing the House of judah and the house of Israel with anyone, the NEW testamnet is specifically with these two Houses [Heb 8:6-13, Jer 31:31-34] and many of these are Jews , at least some of the house of Israel though are not Jews even though they are descended from Israel [Jacob]

Thus it is the paganised House of israel who are grafted back into Israel , having been lost and become "not a people" for all these years, having become paganised as gentiles... the proof is given by Jesus, all the firtsfruit saints belong to twelve of the 14 tribes of Israel [Rev 7:3-8] according to Jesus himself



That is indeed the history of christianity after Rome took it upon itself to take over from Jerusalem and alter christianity to exclude the Hebrews [even changing the day of worship to Sunday, from the Hebrew holy sabbath [not Saturday or Sunday, not any Roman day!]



I know nothing of this movement , but like any denomination it falls over itself when it creates a creed separate from the scripture and without knowing all truth of God

WHOA, THERE FELLA, WHOA!!!
To say that you've said (posted) a moutufull would be an understatement. And more than one point is just, plain, wrong!
1. When the nation of Israel left Egypt, they stopped on the eastern border of the Jordan. However; before they got to that point, while still in Egypt, and before Jacob rested with his fathers, Jacob blessed each of his children. According to the Law of Moses, there's no portion given to the tribe of Levi, and neither is there an allotment for Joesph. Twelve minus two is ten. Jacob -now called hereafter Israel by God - when he was about to die blessed the sons of Joseph, Ephraim, and Manasseh. It is the names of these two, which round out the twelve tribes when the nation finally conquers the land promised to Abraham and his descendants. Therefore, it is these twelve who, when the time comes for the Tabernacle to be built, whose names are inscribed on the stones, set in the breastplate, worn by the High Priest. Our Lord Jesus Himself, after chosing them, sid to the twelve apostles, "...you shall sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel." From Genesis to Revelations the number twelve has been constant in reference to the nation of Israel. Israel and Judah are referred to for no other reason than God's plan of redemption, and the godly lineage of the people.
2. The people who are grafted onto the vine, are not paganized Jews!!! Those who're grafted onto the vine, are the Gentile s who have now believed on Jesus the Son of God, For, "...once they were not a people, but now...." The Holy Apostle Paul makes it quite clear that the Jews were cut off for the sake of the Gentiles, "...who once were not a people..." And that, God will graft them back onto the root from which they were cut off.
3. Ephraim has always been, and will always be, counted among the nation of the Jews. God said, that settles it!, not what either you or I understand.
4. SO, to ignore the House of Israel is to miss half the roots of christianity in Israel and to make the NT incomprehensible in terms of the OT , as has happened in much divided modern christianity ...people are so overwhelmed with finding a saviour that they forget that Jesus' main task in THIS earth is just to set up a perfect priesthood using a remnant of Israel, te saints of Israel ... An overview of all Scripture will show you one thing; it is God revealing himself to man, of which the absolute zenith is nothing other than the Incarnation. "The Son of God appeared for this purpose, that fHe might destroy the works of the devil..." 1John 3:8 Are there "fringe" benefits to the salvation of mankind; Yes, without a doubt, however, the main purpose was stated by God, to the serpent in the Garden of Eden (Genesis 3:14, 15).
As I said there are numerous other points you've presented which are "just plain wrong". I seriously reccommend that you sit at the foot of your priest, renounce your pride, and humbly learn of Jesus. For the things you've posted, can; if not remedied, do serious harm to the faith of God's people.


the sinful and unworthy servant

 

[stranger]

WHOA, THERE FELLA, WHOA!!!
To say that you've said (posted) a [mouthful] would be an understatement. And more than one point is just, plain, wrong!

well you have a right to your opinion, but that is hardly a good stance for starting open discussion in which we both acknowledge beforehand that we could be wrong [based on Jesus' statement (Rev 13:3-7, John 16:13) that unless we know that we have ALL truth of God , we shall indeed definitely be deceived about the truth in THIS earth ]

1. When the nation of Israel left Egypt, they stopped on the eastern border of the Jordan. However; before they got to that point, while still in Egypt, and before Jacob rested with his fathers, Jacob blessed each of his children. According to the Law of Moses, there's no portion given to the tribe of Levi, and neither is there an allotment for Joesph.

Levi was not given much land since their provision came from the people , as priests they received almost all that they needed from the other tribes... thus Levi were given an allotment of cities to dwell in with a little adjacent land, they did not need nor were thus given vast tracts of land which they could not tend and did not need because of their other priestly duties

Joseph himself obviously was not part of Ephraim or Manasseh since THEY were HIS sons despite that Jacob [Israel] adopted them as his own full sons ... and the tribe of Joseph is mentioned by Jesus, DISTINCT from the tribe of Manasseh, in Rev 7:3-8, thus we know that, as the OT merely indicates, that Joseph had other sons and daughters and continued as a SMALL tribe, so small that they moved into the brders of the land given to Manasseh and occupied but a very few towns

1Ch 7:29 And by the borders of the children of Manasseh, Bethshean and her towns, Taanach and her towns, Megiddo and her towns, Dor and her towns. In these dwelt the children of Joseph the son of Israel.

Thus TWO shares of land were given for Joseph and all his children and Ephraim and Manasseh took most of the land simply because they were MASSIVE tribes and powerful , especially Ephraim , the largest tribe of all ,who dominated the House of Israel ... Joseph and his other children were but few and had thus very few towns at the border of Manasseh , but within the TWO LOTS or shares of land assigned to Joseph and his two first sons ... thus there tribes shared two shares ...

the sharing of the land was quite ratinal, it does not indicate that anyone ceased to be a tribe, o teh contrary it shows that they all shared the Holy land on a fairly rational basis ...

the priest had no abiity of need for much land , just a few cities to dwell in and a tiny ammount of land adjacent , Joseh and his other children easily and comfortably lived within the two shares given to Joseph and all his children , but Ephraim and manasseh needed and took most of the land in the two shares...

Twelve minus two is ten.

I don't dispute the arithmetic, but there is no indication that anyone was excluded as a tribe just because they had no need for much land ...the scripture does not say that at all and both Levi and Joseph are mentioned as tribes inthe FUTURE in Jesus' own prophecy Rev 7:3-8 , so we know that you are mistaken from Jesus' own words

Jacob -now called hereafter Israel by God - when he was about to die blessed the sons of Joseph, Ephraim, and Manasseh. It is the names of these two, which round out the twelve tribes when the nation finally conquers the land promised to Abraham and his descendants.

There is indeed the acquisition of two more sons to israel , but he NEVER disowns ANY of his sonns.... twelve plus two equals fourteen , the scripture talks of oly twelve of them in respect to many things , even in Rev 7:3-8 Jesus excludes Dan and Ephraim from contributing to the firstfruit saints of God ... but if you look carefully youwill see that all the fourteen tribes are listed in one list or another, it is a DIFFERENT two that are excluded to make twelve in each list ... thus NO tribe has ceased t be a tribe in God's eyes,

in fact even Ephraim ,who are not mentioned in Rev 7:9-10 ,are the very leaders of the House of Israel to whom alone Jesus was sent by God [and he and Paul sent their disciples to reach] and have a very special role in scripture inaccryying the news that Jesus is the messiah of Israel and of the establishment of the new covenant forgiving completely[ONLY] Israel's TWO Houses [for now!] - Heb 8:6-13 , Jer 31:31-34

Thus tribes that do not even exist in the world today [no modern Jews are of Ephraim!] have a major role in bringing the Jews to belief in Jesus as their messiah ... and these few saints of Israel are the very priests who will serve in our own redemption in the new earth

Ro 10:19 But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you.

It is only Ephraim whom God made not a people [ Isa 7:8 ] who are part of the vanished lost sheep of the House of israel to whom alone Jesus was sent by God [Mat 15:24 ,Mat 10:5-6 ,Acts 2:36 ]

Therefore, it is these twelve who, when the time comes for the Tabernacle to be built, whose names are inscribed on the stones, set in the breastplate, worn by the High Priest. Our Lord Jesus Himself, after chosing them, sid to the twelve apostles, "...you shall sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel."

Again , Jesus lists which twelve tribes are to contribute to the foundation of New Jerusalem in Rev 7:3-8] and the two tribes excluded are NOT Levi and Joseph , but Dan and Ephraim !!

From Genesis to Revelations the number twelve has been constant in reference to the nation of Israel. Israel and Judah are referred to for no other reason than God's plan of redemption, and the godly lineage of the people.

This much is true, but it has misled you to conclude that the twelve tribes are the SAME twelve in each case - but they are NOT ..check it out for yourself !!! , in many places God refers to only twelve of the fourteen tribes , BUT you should observe that it is NOT the same twelve ... all fourteen tribes are listed in one or more of the lists of twelve, NONE is ever EXCLUDED from beng of Israel, all are included in one list or another !!

2. The people who are grafted onto the vine, are not paganized Jews!!!

They are not Jews simply because they are of the House of Israel , not of the House of JUDAH ....But Jesus himself says that ALL his firstfruits are of TRIBAL Israel [Rev 7:3-8] so we know they are all Israelites even though they are not of visible Israel [the Jews]

Jesus said that he was ONLY sent to the LOST House of Israel, the people of Israel who were a SEPARATE Northern kingdom from the Southern kingdom of the House of Judah [Jews] ... Ephraim dominated the Northern kingdom, but unlike the Jews, Ephraim worshipped pagan gods and lost its nationhood,became "not a people" as the bible puts it... this NEVER happened to the Jews, the Jews were held together even when scattered, by Judaism ...

The House of Israel vanished [apart from a few who joined the House of Judah on return to Jerusalem from captivity [ who became 'Jews' because they had no other priests than the half of Levi who stayed with the House of Judah when the nation of israel divided]

Thus almost all the House of Israel [and all the tribe of ephraim included] became gentiles , scattered amongst all nations, but god had not forgotten that they are the children of Israel even though men and they themselves forgot ... Jesus and his [and Paul's] disciples were sent to reach them amongst the gentiles, their primary mission stated clearly in scripture to get the message of the messiah of Israel to this lost House of Israel , to show them that the new covenant [heb 8;6-13] is ONLY with them and the Jews despite that they see themselves as gentiles :-

Am 9:9 For, lo, I will command, and I will sift the house of Israel among all nations, like as corn is sifted in a sieve, yet shall not the least grain fall upon the earth.

Those who're grafted onto the vine, are the Gentile's who have now believed on Jesus the Son of God, For, "...once they were not a people, but now...."

Yes indeed, but they believe in Jesus ONLY because god has drawn them, because He chose them frm the beginning to be His firtsfruit priests ... and they are all of tribal Israel as Rev 7:3-8 shows and indeed God promised to Moses at the beginning that it would be so :-

Ex 19:6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

NOTE that there is no doubt whatever whom God is talking about, descendants of ancient Israel , even if they become paganised for a while !
...[reply cont. below]

 

[stranger]

[cont from above]

The Holy Apostle Paul makes it quite clear that the Jews were cut off for the sake of the Gentiles, "...who once were not a people..." And that, God will graft them back onto the root from which they were cut off.

Again read further and more carefully, the jews are eventually grafted back in and take tothe stock [Jesus] BETTER than the pagansised House of israel ....

and 1Pet 2:9-10 ,to which you loosely refer ,actually proves the point about it being the House of israel who are the foolish nation who became "not a peple" but are now the people of God, tere s no other nation in scripture [or antwhere] whom lost their nationhood but are still the people God chose ... ALL OTHER gentiles belong to their OWN nations , so they are NOT "not a people" , so even could not be the ones grafted in !!

1pet 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

So look at Ex 19:6, Rev 7:3-8 [and indeed all scripture] to see that only Isarel are the chosen people to be Gods priesthood and kings in the new earth, and that is WHY they are first, because they will serve God and men in the new earth in the redemption of countless MANY [who came by the broad way, unlike the narrow way of these FEW] [- Rev 7:9-10] .. thus again, those gentiles fisrt grafted in are the lost shee of the house of israel t whom Jesus was sent , and Israel are for now the oNLY recipients of the new covenant , as it staes EXPLICITLY [Jer 31:31-34, Heb 8:6-13] , BOTH HOUSES of the ancient divided holy nation of God are re-united under one king , as prophesied , to become a single kingdom of priests [Ex 19:6] as prophesied under Jesus as king of these kings and high priest of their immortal order of Melchizedek ['Melchisedec' in the greek transliteration of NT]

[Thus ALL scripture is INTEGRATED by scripture itself and the holy spirit of truth that inspired it and the Roman paganisation of christianity at their attempted take-over from jerusalem can be fought off using the scripture

Col 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

This warning by the saint might be taken more to heart if one read and absorbed the import of Rev 13:3-7]

3. Ephraim has always been, and will always be, counted among the nation of the Jews. God said, that settles it!, not what either you or I understand.

Rather Ephraim is a son of Israel , a tribe of the House of Israel ,and the very LEADING tribe in the revolt AGINST the House of Judah that created the separate kingdom of the House of Israel... thus it is almost certain that no member of the tribe of Ephraim ever joined the House of Judah and became a Jew ...
rather Ephraim disapperaed completely as a nation, became "not a people" as scripture staes unequivocably ... Ephraim are certainly of israel, but they never were Jews and never will be, they are israelites, not Jews ..and they became gentiles simply because they already worshipped pagan gods by the time God scattered them amongst all nations and so got absorbed into gentile nations as gentiles and lsot their nationhod as the Hose of Israel... but god nevr lost sight of even one of them, as quoted above, just sifted them through the nations and then sent Jesus to start the process of reaching them to let them know that they are indeed chosen, even though they are gentiles, and taht THEY will make the Jews jealous BECAUSE God gives them the knowledge of jesus being the Israeli Messiah of BOTH Houses of divided israel, Jews and gentile House of Israel [but note that some of the House of Israel did become Jews on returnig from captivity , some from most tribe s thus became Jews, besides Judah and half of Levi in the original House of Judah when it was formed]

4. SO, to ignore the House of Israel is to miss half the roots of christianity in Israel and to make the NT incomprehensible in terms of the OT , as has happened in much divided modern christianity ...people are so overwhelmed with finding a saviour that they forget that Jesus' main task in THIS earth is just to set up a perfect priesthood using a remnant of Israel, the saints of Israel ... An overview of all Scripture will show you one thing; it is God revealing himself to man, of which the absolute zenith is nothing other than the Incarnation. "The Son of God appeared for this purpose, that fHe might destroy the works of the devil..." 1John 3:8 Are there "fringe" benefits to the salvation of mankind; Yes, without a doubt, however, the main purpose was stated by God, to the serpent in the Garden of Eden (Genesis 3:14, 15).

I do not disagree at all, and it is confirmed in Isaiah 14 and Ezek 28 that that is the integral purpose of God 's plan and His will ... and 2Thess 2 explains wHY man must suffer evil in this earth BECAUSE of that purpose of God...

But all that has to be pursuedin PARALLEL with god's ultimate redemption of the many through Jesus Christ [Rev 7:9-10], so Jesus came FIRST to begin te extraction of the House of israel from the heathen into knowledge of their roots as the chosen people of God ... and Jesus will return to clainhis FEW saints and so begins the perfect priesthood who will rule inthe kingdom of God in the new earth [Ex 19:6, 1pet 2:9-10] :-

Re 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Thus we know that Israel are CHOSEN people to be the priesthood and kings in the new earth after the second resurrection , so we know that the many of rev 7:9-10 are redeemed in the new earth under the ministry of Israel led by Jesus as king of kings ... the MANY who came by the bROAD way through destruction of the old earth and heavens (and so the utter destruction of even the elements of their old bodies )

And we know from Acts 2:17-18 that God poured out His spirit on His few servants in THIS earth, but that even our children will prophesy when God pours out His spirit on ALL men in the new earth ... we KOW that our children do NOT prophesy NOW ... and so we know that many have died without baptsimof the spirit but that ALL will receive that, thus in the new earth all will receivebaptism of the spirit and our children will prophesy THEN...

As I said there are numerous other points you've presented which are "just plain wrong". I seriously reccommend that you sit at the foot of your priest, renounce your pride, and humbly learn of Jesus.

I would agree that the scripture teaches much that is against the tradition almost all men accept now [ but that is inevitable if one considersw the import of Rev 13:3-7], so I do not see why you would claim that what I have pointed out in scripture is wrong, even without having looked at the scriptures I have pointed to and prayed in yearning prayer to God and meditation upon it to understand His truth as He inspired it to be written

As for listening to priests who would admit that they do NOT have all truth of god and thus Jesus' statement [John 16:13] reveals their standing in relation to the holy spirit of truth, that is a VERY common mistake and one that Jesus confirms [rev 13:3-7] that very many more men will make , but not me ... the scripture advises very strongly against it and states the only way to God's truth... that God will teach all saints Himself and they will NOT even need to teach each other :-

Joh 6:45 ...they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me ...[Jesus !!!]

Heb 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest... [THE New covenant - Heb 8:6-13

Mt 6:6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

Col 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy [Theology!] and vain deceit [ego] , after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

--- Unlike your advices to me, these advices come from scripture , not from me .... take them very seriously , if you can ?

For the things you've posted, can; if not remedied, do serious harm to the faith of God's people.

Its a prophesied inevitability that most people, like yourself believe that youbare right and will not be reproved by the scripture [as I have quoted throughout, not my own ideas, but scripture that you can read for yOURSELF (if you STOP listening to the priests of men and listen to God's word by His explanationmof it from yearning to Himto know only his truth]

Thus try reproving your own words with the scriptures I have shown you [NOT my ideas, the actual scriptures... then you may be able to help me by reproving me from the scriptures, but please do NOT even try to do so by the words of men [even those in frocks]and your own ideas

the sinful and unworthy servant

Again we are all sinful until we recive all truth of God by His OWN holy spirit of truth , we just CANNOT defeat Satan's wily temptations until then... so one should only listen to men who have all truth of God [and my estimate from scriptuer is that there are but anbout two thousand only alive at any oe time inthis earth. on average, so we probably will never meet a saint in THIS life ,let alone persuade one thathe should teach us]

Thus seek God's truth from Him alone , in His scripture and His uderstanding of it from praying to Him to explain and meditating in His words...

You will find in scripture that god has chosen who are His servants in this world [Rev 7:3-8] and that they are righteous saints of tribal Israel ...

Thus whilst the sinful are indeed unworthy of Christ, itis only because god REQUIRES it to be so for NOW ... but then you should clearly ask YOURSELF whose servant one becomes in sin and consider more carefully what Jesus prophesied about sinners and saints and how each serves God in VERY different roles in THIS life [Rev 7:3-7]

Then you might begin to review what bass there is , if any , for a priesthood teaching tradition of men in THIS earth when Jesus has said WHEN his perfect priesthood is established ....

 

[eph3Nine]

God chose the jewish people to work out his salvation through them. Why would God need to chose "A" people. Isn't our God big enough to chose all people? And wouldnt' that make more sense

For a really well written explanation of this, I would suggest reading the book "Satan and His plan of evil" by Keith Blades.

God has had a plan and purpose from the very beginning of time, for two realms: heaven and earth. Satan usurped Gods authority in both realms by rebelling and the entire bible has to do with Gods twofold plan to RE ESTABLISH His rule and reign in BOTH realms.

On earth, God has chosen to work thru the nation Israel. This is His choice.
For re establishing His rule and reign in the heavenlies, He has chosen to work thru what He calls the Body of Christ...which is comprised of jew and gentile alike who have placed their trust in the finished work of Christ on the Cross.

Its fascinating reading and will help you to see the BIG picture of what God is doing today and how YOU can be a part of it.

By the way, Israel is no longer Gods chosen today.God divorced her and she is now "lo ammi", which means "NOT my people". God has changed programs and will again deal with the nation Israel after we are taken UP in the rapture. God is dealing today thru HIS BODY, the church of this age.

 

[Tishri1]

For a really well written explanation of this, I would suggest reading the book "Satan and His plan of evil" by Keith Blades.

God has had a plan and purpose from the very beginning of time, for two realms: heaven and earth. Satan usurped Gods authority in both realms by rebelling and the entire bible has to do with Gods twofold plan to RE ESTABLISH His rule and reign in BOTH realms.

On earth, God has chosen to work thru the nation Israel. This is His choice.
For re establishing His rule and reign in the heavenlies, He has chosen to work thru what He calls the Body of Christ...which is comprised of jew and gentile alike who have placed their trust in the finished work of Christ on the Cross.

Its fascinating reading and will help you to see the BIG picture of what God is doing today and how YOU can be a part of it.

By the way, Israel is no longer Gods chosen today.God divorced her and she is now "lo ammi", which means "NOT my people". God has changed programs and will again deal with the nation Israel after we are taken UP in the rapture. God is dealing today thru HIS BODY, the church of this age.

If God could divorce Israel before then He could just as easily divorce us now....Why did he Divorce Her....She played the Harlot going after other God's...which is exactly what the Church chooses to do every, October, December and April...There is nothing new under the sun.....and if Jesus's blood could not heal that relationship then , then what good is it now...

No God did not completely Divorce Israel. He could only do that if she had signed the initial Kettubah which He signed with Jesus not the people...Israel has always had a redeemer, will always have a redeemer, and has been redeemed from the foundations of the world...

Hosea 1:9-11 9 And the LORD said, "Name him Lo-ammi, for you are not My people and I am not your God." 10 Yet the number of the sons of Israel Will be like the sand of the sea, Which cannot be measured or numbered; And it will come about that, in the place Where it is said to them, "You are not My people," It will be said to them, "You are the sons of the living God." 11 And the sons of Judah and the sons of Israel will be gathered together, And they will appoint for themselves one leader, And they will go up from the land, For great will be the day of Jezreel. Hosea 2:23 - 3:1 23 "And I will sow her for Myself in the land. I will also have compassion on her who had not obtained compassion, And I will say to those who were not My people, 'You are My people!' And they will say, 'Thou art my God!'" NAS Hosea 3:1 Then the LORD said to me, "Go again, love a woman who is loved by her husband, yet an adulteress, even as the LORD loves the sons of Israel, though they turn to other gods and love raisin cakes." Romans 9:25-26 25 As He says also in Hosea, "I will call those who were not My people, 'My people,' And her who was not beloved, 'beloved.'" 26 "And it shall be that in the place where it was said to them, 'you are not My people,' There they shall be called sons of the living God."

 

[stranger]

God has had a plan and purpose from the very beginning of time, for two realms: heaven and earth.

Why would God then destroy this heavens and the earth
2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
...
2Pe 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Isa 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

Also why would God come down from the new heavens to live with men:-

Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

By the way, Israel is no longer Gods chosen today.

Why did God make a new covenant with the house of Israel and House of Judah then in which HE staes that they will be His people and that He does forgive them all sins now [but no-one else] -Heb 8:6-13

Why was Jesus only sent to the house of israel - Matt 15:24

Why did Jesus send all his disciples to the house of Israel, not to the Jews [House of Judah] , and not to the gentiles en masse :-

Mt 10:5 ¶ These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

God divorced her

But God will return to the His 'wife' :

Isaiah 54: 4 Fear not; for thou shalt not be ashamed: neither be thou confounded; for thou shalt not be put to shame: for thou shalt forget the shame of thy youth, and shalt not remember the reproach of thy widowhood any more.
5 For thy Maker is thine husband; the LORD of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called.
6 ¶ For the LORD hath called thee as a woman forsaken and grieved in spirit, and a wife of youth, when thou wast refused, saith thy God.
7 For a small moment have I forsaken thee; but with great mercies will I gather thee.

and she is now "lo ammi", which means "NOT my people".

Read the WHOLE passage, God only says they are not His people briefly, He also will say they are sons of the living God !

9 Then said God, Call his name Loammi: for ye are not my people, and I will not be your God.
10 Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God.
11 Then shall the children of Judah and the children of Israel be gathered together, and appoint themselves one head, and they shall come up out of the land: for great shall be the day of Jezreel.

God has changed programs and will again deal with the nation Israel after we are taken UP in the rapture. God is dealing today thru HIS BODY, the church of this age

The 'congregation of God' is just the saints of Rev 7:3-8, listed by Jesus as the firtsfruits of redemption, just 144,000 of TRIBAL Israel ... thus the 'body of Christ' are all of Israel as the new covennant [Jer 31:31-34] indicates they must be .

Also the saints are all perfected in love by trial in THIS life , there is no translation to spirit without this perfection ... men cannot get into heaven wthout being perfected , one cannot just be spirited away unless one has overcome sinning and become a saint , without sin, the image of the perfect Son of God ... most men are still sinners , not righteous ...

 

[Lauri4Him]

As far as I can determine, God choose Israel as a people to witness to the ends of the earth that God is and that He is a rewarder of them that seek Him. Anyone who wished was welcome to join themselves to God and His people. He used them as His instruments to reach the people of the earth.


1 Chronicles 16:24 Declare his glory among the heathen; his marvellous works among all nations.
25 For great is the LORD, and greatly to be praised: he also is to be feared above all gods.
26 For all the gods of the people are idols: but the LORD made the heavens.
27 Glory and honour are in his presence; strength and gladness are in his place.
28 Give unto the LORD, ye kindreds of the people, give unto the LORD glory and strength.
29 Give unto the LORD the glory due unto his name: bring an offering, and come before him: worship the LORD in the beauty of holiness.
30 Fear before him, all the earth: the world also shall be stable, that it be not moved.
31 Let the heavens be glad, and let the earth rejoice: and let men say among the nations, The LORD reigneth.

Psalms 67:2 That thy way may be known upon earth, thy saving health among all nations.


Psalms 86:9 All nations whom thou hast made shall come and worship before thee, O Lord; and shall glorify thy name.

Israel failed in this many times, becoming self-righteous, self-important and exclusive.

But from the beginning it was always God's intention to provide salvation for all people whom He had created.

1 Timothy 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

There is only one way to be saved. People who lived before Christ was born looked forward to His coming and the atonement for salvation, people who where alive during His coming where saved by faith in Him and accepting that He was the Messiah, people after where saved by looking back to the cross. Whether before, during or after, all are saved by accepting the sacrifice of Jesus. All needed to accept the grace freely offered by God through the blood of the lamb.

Acts 4:10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.
11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.
12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

As always, all who accept Christ and HIS righteousness are spiritual Israel.

1 Corinthians 10:1 ¶Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.


Romans 9:6 ¶Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

Romans 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.


1 Peter 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

In response to the original question in this thread, about who are the chosen people, I believe that God created all people to be His children, but HE also gave us the freedom to chose HIM or reject HIM.

Your sister in Christ,
Lauri

 

[stranger]

As far as I can determine, God choose Israel as a people to witness to the ends of the earth that God is and that He is a rewarder of them that seek Him. Anyone who wished was welcome to join themselves to God and His people. He used them as His instruments to reach the people of the earth.

Exodus 19:6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

1Peter 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation[stock],
a royal priesthood,
an holy nation,
a peculiar people;
that ye should shew forth the praises of him
who hath called you
out of darkness
into his marvellous light:
10 Which in time past were not a people,
but are now the people of God:
which had not obtained mercy,
but now have obtained mercy.

Israel failed in this many times, becoming self-righteous, self-important and exclusive.

But from the beginning it was always God's intention to provide salvation for all people whom He had created
1 Timothy 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

But did u notice that God saves the MANY by saving the FEW saints of Israel FIRST [Rev 7:9-10] to minister as PERFECT priests in the new earth and RULE as kings in the righteous new earth when the MANY are resurrected who came by the BROAD way through destruction of the body [at the end of this earth]?
[Rev 7:9-10]

There is only one way to be saved. People who lived before Christ was born looked forward to His coming and the atonement for salvation, people who where alive during His coming where saved by faith in Him and accepting that He was the Messiah, people after where saved by looking back to the cross. Whether before, during or after, all are saved by accepting the sacrifice of Jesus. All needed to accept the grace freely offered by God through the blood of the lamb.

Acts 4:10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.
11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.
12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

As the New Covenant points out the House of Israel and the House of Judah are simply taken as the people of God, there is no question of their rejecting the gift of faith in Jesus given by God [Heb 8:6-13 ] and they are uNCONDITIONALLY firgiven , no question of any repentance BEFORE the gift is given [that comes afterward] :-

Ro 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

Thus God will save Israel first [Rev 7:3-4] :-

Jer 33:7 And I will cause the captivity of Judah and the captivity of Israel to return, and will build them, as at the first.
8 And I will cleanse them from all their iniquity, whereby they have sinned against me; and I will pardon all their iniquities, whereby they have sinned, and whereby they have transgressed against me.
9 And it shall be to me a name of joy, a praise and an honour before all the nations of the earth, which shall hear all the good that I do unto them: and they shall fear and tremble for all the goodness and for all the prosperity that I procure unto it.

Isa 44:6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer ,the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

Rev 14:3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.[Rev 7:3-8 shows these are all of tribal Israel , the samd isarel divided into TWO Houses and to whom the new covannat then applies]

4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
[all firstfruits then are of Tribal Israel, and some at least of them are Jews]

As always, all who accept Christ and HIS righteousness are spiritual Israel

1 Corinthians 10:1 ¶Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness

Only the very few are saints of Israel [saints, without sin, righteous] CAN believe enough in this world ,and so follow Jesus now as Lord [if one sins then one is NOT following Jesus, he is NOT then your Lord!]

Many men are just called but are not the chosen few of israel to be saints in tHIS life , the many travel by the broad path and the second resurrection to be saints in the righteous new earth in the NEXT life [Rev 7:9-10]

All 'spiritual Israel' are thus also tribal Israel, descendants of Jacob , the House of Judah and the House of Israel to whom jesus was sent and the new covenant specifically only applies for now [Heb 8:6-13] Israel is unconditionally forgiven adn taken to be God's holy nation of priests as promised to Moses [Exodus 19:6]

Romans 9:6 ¶Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

...some 'strangers' do join Israel under the law for joining Israel , but they are indeed very few

few of this world yet have any desire at all to be labelled 'Jews' because they joined Israel formally

7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.

Abraham had other children than Isaac , but the promise came down through Isaac as the OT records ... and then through Jacob[ who God called Israel]

8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

The children of Jacob are the children of the promise, not the other children of Isaac and Abaham

--Again it confirms that Israel are the ONLY children of the promise aside from the strangers who join themselves to Israel and take hold of israels sign of God, the holy sabbath :-

Isa 14:1 For the LORD will have mercy on Jacob, and will yet choose Israel, and set them in their own land: and the strangers shall be joined with them, and they shall cleave to the house of Jacob.

3 ¶ Neither let the son of the stranger, that hath joined himself to the LORD, speak, saying, The LORD hath utterly separated me from his people: neither let the eunuch say, Behold, I am a dry tree.
4 For thus saith the LORD unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant;
5 Even unto them will I give in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters: I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off.
6 Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant;

1 Peter 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

We know from Exodus 19:6 and from the Revelation of Jesus Christ that Israe are the oNLY priests of God , a noly nation chosen by God from the begiinning to be His priests and kings, a ROYAL priesthood {1Peter 2:9-10] it is the firstfruits of israel [Rev 7:3-8] who form the priesthood of the new covenant solely with Israel for now [Jer 31:31-34]

Re 1:6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

Re 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

In response to the original question in this thread, about who are the chosen people, I believe that God created all people to be His children, but HE also gave us the freedom to chose HIM or reject HIM.

The wicked will indeed reject even the pouring out of the spirit of truth on all flesh giving all men knowledge of God ... but they are destined to do that, God only makes that happen for sake of His glory in the end when even Satan repents and yields all power , glory and honour to Jesus as his Lord :-

Re 5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

Satan was created as Lucifer and thus is indeed a creature :-

Eze 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.



- In His peace, may it be with you

 

[Lauri4Him]

We love Him because He first Loved Us!

Revelation 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

Revelation 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

All who accept Jesus as their Lord and Saviour are made priests unto God. Where in the above text does it say that only Jewish people are spoken of? Or am I misunderstanding your previous thought on this subject? vs. 9 specifically states that these kings and priests are taken out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation because Jesus - the lamb of God - died for them. Didn't Jesus die for the whole earth and not just Israel?

Revelation 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.
11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,
12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.
13 ¶And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

God did not choose Israel because they where more deserving, but because the nation He would drive out was so evil and because of the promise He made to their fathers.

Deuteronomy 9:5 Not for thy righteousness, or for the uprightness of thine heart, dost thou go to possess their land: but for the wickedness of these nations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee, and that he may perform the word which the LORD sware unto thy fathers, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

Acts 10:34 ¶Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:

My concern is that it may be preceived that some are more important to God than others, and this I do not believe.

Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.


There is now a new Israel ye are all one in Christ Jesus. Those who have given their lives to Christ are adopted into God's family and treated as one of His own.

Ephesians 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

Is not salvation offered to everyone, Jews and Gentiles alike?

Galatians 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.


Romans 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

May everyone who hears the gospel message know that God wishes to adopt them into His family by faith in Christ Jesus.

Galatians 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

May the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all.

Lauri

 

[stranger]

All who accept Jesus as their Lord and Saviour are made priests unto God. Where in the above text does it say that only Jewish people are spoken of? Or am I misunderstanding your previous thought on this subject? vs. 9 specifically states that these kings and priests are taken out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation because Jesus - the lamb of God - died for them. Didn't Jesus die for the whole earth and not just Israel?

Jesus did indeed die for the sake of all ,

and indeed the few saints will be gathered out of every nation cos' Israel was scattered amongst all nations ,

and I did not say Jewish, I said of Israel ... many of the house of Israel are not Jews but they are true descendants of jacob who have become paganised as gentiles when God scattered them amongst all nations...

Revelation 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.
11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,


God did not choose Israel because they where more deserving, but because the nation He would drive out was so evil and because of the promise He made to their fathers.

God certainly made promises to Israel , but he chose them because they are rebellious and stiff-necked , as He said, to show HIS power merely by His truth to save even that rebelious bunch !

NOBODY deserves salvation bar Jesus , one cannot deserve it , it is GIVEN freely ...God GIVES faith by His truth in baptsim of the Holy spirit , no truth = no ability to resist Satan =sin ... sin = NOT righteous ... one cannot follow Jesus unless one is righteous! ...

Acts 10:34 ¶Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:

My concern is that it may be preceived that some are more important to God than others, and this I do not believe.

Israel are chosen to be god's priests [Ex 19:6] simply because God wanted to say who would be His priests and happened to pick Israel , it is no favour, their trial is TERRIBLE , they barely make it through and many die in the attempt ...

BUT Israel are only the FIRST because one needs the priets FIRST so that they can MINISTER to billions ... just think what priets DO and you will see why Israel have to be there first ... that is ALL!! no favouritism!!

Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.


There is now a new Israel ye are all one in Christ Jesus. Those who have given their lives to Christ are adopted into God's family and treated as one of His own.

You have overlooked that NO-ONE gets to follow Jesus unless the Father draws them ... thus it is no use saying that one believes in Jesus if one continues to SIN ... Jesus commands as LORD not to sin, but no-one cAN stop sinning until they have baptism into all truth of God to be aqable to resist Satan... the only ones so baptised are the saints of Isarel... hence the name saints, they are without sin... people that are called but not chosen conyinue to sin, so Jesus is nOT their lord even if they say he is , even if they believe he is [since they do nOT obey him then he is not their Lord !!]

Thus the Jews and the paganised gentiles of the Houuse of Israel [including some in Greece] are indeed made on in Christ Jesus ... and it is these whom Paul is addressing, the SAINTS , not the called who continue to sin....

Ephesians 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

Is not salvation offered to everyone, Jews and Gentiles alike?

there will be salvation of the many [Rev 7:9-10] but AFTER the second resurrection. not at the first resurrection [Joel 2:28, Acts 2:17]]

Galatians 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

READ the new covenant, WHo is it with Heb 8:6-13 , WHO is unconditionally forgiven, the TWO houses of divided ancient Israel !! God has forgiven Israel !

Romans 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

EXACTLY , and WHO are led by the spirit but exactly oNLY those who receiev all truth of God in baptism of the spirit and that is ONLY Israel [in the former and latter rain ON Israel ONLY !!

May everyone who hears the gospel message know that God wishes to adopt them into His family by faith in Christ Jesus.

God will indeed adopt everyone, bUT He will adopt Israel fIRST !!!


May the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all.

 

[oncewas]

In the beginning all mankind had to do communicate with his Creator. Much like a parent loves those hugs from their children. We were His children and the rules were few. Take care of the planet, don't abuse it or each other and just love Him and accept His love for us. He didn't reject anyone. We rejected Him, in the garden, at the tower of Babel, the creation of other gods or no god the history and list is endless.

Since we like things hard and difficult, acting religious and such (check out Islam, Hindi, Buddism) our Creator gave us our own way by creating a set a laws that actually work for our good and set a people apart to prove we can't do it without Him. As someone pointed out the Jewish people are a mix of people, a race determined by religion not necessarily genetic factors.

They have had the hard long road of being God's living example on earth, our real time text if you will. And they really don't have it made in the shade either. I'm glad to be living in the age of grace. I've never been able to measure up. Because of the obedience of a few, the Savior was able to complete the process to allow me to enter God's presence again regardless of how many times I rejected Him in the past.

 

[Bible2]

In the beginning all mankind had to do (was) communicate with his Creator.

And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden.

Much like a parent loves those hugs from their children.

O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

We were His children and the rules were few.

And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

 

[stranger]

If God could divorce Israel before then He could just as easily divorce us now....Why did he Divorce Her....She played the Harlot going after other God's...which is exactly what the Church chooses to do every, October, December and April...There is nothing new under the sun.....and if Jesus's blood could not heal that relationship then , then what good is it now...

No God did not completely Divorce Israel. He could only do that if she had signed the initial Kettubah which He signed with Jesus not the people...Israel has always had a redeemer, will always have a redeemer, and has been redeemed from the foundations of the world...

Quite true to the OTscripture ...and the NT! , The NEW covenant itself is with Israel and FORGIVES them UNCONDITIONALLY [Heb 8:6-13] :-

Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them,
he saith,
Behold, the days come,
saith the Lord,
when I will make a new covenant
with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
...
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness,
and their sins
and their iniquities
will I remember no more.

 

[stranger]

In the beginning all mankind had to do communicate with his Creator. Much like a parent loves those hugs from their children. We were His children and the rules were few. Take care of the planet, don't abuse it or each other and just love Him and accept His love for us. He didn't reject anyone. We rejected Him, in the garden, at the tower of Babel, the creation of other gods or no god the history and list is endless.

Since we like things hard and difficult, acting religious and such (check out Islam, Hindi, Buddism) our Creator gave us our own way by creating a set a laws that actually work for our good and set a people apart to prove we can't do it without Him. As someone pointed out the Jewish people are a mix of people, a race determined by religion not necessarily genetic factors.

They have had the hard long road of being God's living example on earth, our real time text if you will. And they really don't have it made in the shade either. I'm glad to be living in the age of grace. I've never been able to measure up. Because of the obedience of a few, the Savior was able to complete the process to allow me to enter God's presence again regardless of how many times I rejected Him in the past.

Are you saying that you made it to being a saint, living without sin?

If so did you get Jesus' promise of all truth of God ?

John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth:

If not then you are simply one of MANY called by God , but NOT chosen from the beginning to be a saint of Israel , there is no sin in admitting that one deos not have all truth of God ...

BUT if one does not have the 'sword' of all truth of God, then one cannot defeat Satan's temptations and one will continue to sin like almost all others [and myself]

Mt 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

NOTE that the FEW saints go by the narrow way ...

BUt the MANY , even the many called but not chosen go by the BROAD way...

BUT the MANY are not LOST, they too are SAVED . but AFTER , second fruits [Rev 7:9-10]

the FEW are the FIRST fruits of the spirit, the MANY are the SECOND fruits of the spirit !!

Rev 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.

Be content to be FIRST or SECOND then , it is God decided from the start who would be first to be His priests and minister to those who come later .. a GOOD PLAN !

Ex 19:6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

 

[Ilovemyhusband]

It wasn't about our God "needing" a people, but about a promise (covenant) made to His servant.