Third Temple

[SwordmanJr]

Where eschatology is concerned, we have been puzzled over the things said about the third temple, about the antichrist desecrating that temple.

How can that third temple have any descriptor as being "holy" when it is well established that we who are in Christ Jesus are the temples. When that veil was ripped down the middle, and thus exposing the place where the Lord once dwelt, buildings constructed by the hands of men no longer were holy by virtue of the dwelling place of the Lord.

How is it, then, that ANY place on this earth, in the post-cross era, be "desecrated" that's no longer the special dwelling place of the presence of the Lord. Was John's inspiration, to write those things that SEEM to indicate that place as truly holy from God's perspective, meant to point more toward the perspective of the Jews? If so, then I'm wondering why he didn't express that thought clearly.

It's one thing for the antichrist to proclaim himself God, and thus demand worship, but quite another that he did so in what will allegedly be a holy place.

I've read where some speculated that the designation of "holy" is actually a reference to the hearts of people moreso than the stone temple itself. The text doesn't seem to point in that direction as being merely allegorical.

Thoughts?

Jr

 

[Timtofly]

If Satan has set upon the thrones in the hearts of men, would that be plural temples? Or in 96% of the spiritual temple?

 

[TribulationSigns]

How can that third temple have any descriptor as being "holy" when it is well established that we who are in Christ Jesus are the temples.

1 Corinthians 3:16 KJV
[16] Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

The Holy Temple is where Spirit of God dwells, so you are right, we who are in Christ Jesus are the temple of God. And the church, as representation of God's Kingdom, is also considered the Holy Temple of God on Earth on this side of the Cross.

But the premillennialists have denied this truth because they claimed that there will be a future physical temple to be fulfilled in the future.

When that veil was ripped down the middle, and thus exposing the place where the Lord once dwelt, buildings constructed by the hands of men no longer were holy by virtue of the dwelling place of the Lord.

The tearing of the physical veil of the physical Temple building was a sign signifying the end of the Old Covenant and the beginning of the New Covenant in the resurrection of Christ. The body of Moses resurrected not by law, but by a New and Living way, that is through the veil, which is Christ's flesh (Hebrews 10:20). Thus, the Instant we read here that Christ died, the veil was torn from top to bottom. This was obviously done as another sign that Christ was the resurrection and the Life, just as when He raised Lazarus.

It's one thing for the antichrist to proclaim himself God, and thus demand worship, but quite another that he did so in what will allegedly be a holy place.

Keep in mind that it is the false doctrine of premillennilism that they believe there will be one evil man, called "the" antichrist, who will appear in Jerusalem, standing before the so-called third temple, demanding everyone in the world to worship him. They got everything about the temple and antichrist all wrong.

I've read where some speculated that the designation of "holy" is actually a reference to the hearts of people moreso than the stone temple itself. The text doesn't seem to point in that direction as being merely allegorical.

Being Holy means where the Spirit of God dwells. We are part of the holy nation because he lives in you. Speaking about the Christians, first the Jews then the Gentiles.

1 Peter 2:9-10 KJV
[9] But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
[10] Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

 

[Timtofly]

But the premillennialists have denied this truth because they claimed that there will be a future physical temple to be fulfilled in the future.

How can a future event be the denial of the present? The reality is both amil and Premil view the current condition as being Spiritual. It is the amil who deny the very words of Jesus Christ. Revelation 20 are the very Word of God as much as 1 Peter 2:5. Premils, do not take Scripture and apply it where it does not belong. We rightly divide the Word of Truth. No where in the NT is there any hint or symbolism of the length of the present condition of a spiritual temple. Revelation 20 was not a prophecy about how long the church would be a spiritual body. It was another time altogether seperate, after the Second Coming of Christ.

Not all Premil mix up the events of the "Tribulation". So being Premil, has nothing to do with the abomination of desolation. No one gets the tribulation nor any of the Seals, Trumpets, and Thunders correct. All theology is wrong, because all theology is only human speculation. Only actually living through this time will be what happens. Being prepared is only trusting in God, not wordly governments who think they have a handle on trouble.

 

[SwordmanJr]

The Jews and their secular government fully expect there to be a third temple built. The entry point to the wailing wall now has a 10 foot sign proclaiming the coming rebuilding of the temple. Is it all nonsense, or is it something we can count on? Time will tell, but the fact remains that there is a serious intent to rebuild sometime soon.

Jr

 

[TribulationSigns]

The Jews and their secular government fully expect there to be a third temple built. The entry point to the wailing wall now has a 10 foot sign proclaiming the coming rebuilding of the temple. Is it all nonsense, or is it something we can count on? Time will tell, but the fact remains that there is a serious intent to rebuild sometime soon.

We need to pay more attention to what God's Word says, not what secular government, premillennialists, or Jerusalem Post says. Of course, there are talking among Israel government, Christian Zionism, and Jerusalem Post, about building a temple of the Jews on Temple Mount. The physical city of Jerusalem in the Middle East is NOT the focus of Bible prophecies as most believe because the prophecies point to Christ's New Testament Congregation, the only Holy Temple on this side of the Cross is already taking place.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Revelation 20 was not a prophecy about how long the church would be a spiritual body. It was another time altogether seperate, after the Second Coming of Christ.

Well...as long as you believe this, you will never get anything else right.

Yes, the prophecies in the New Testament is all about the New Testament congregation of Israel, the church. Not national Israel.

 

[Rachel20]

How is it, then, that ANY place on this earth, in the post-cross era, be "desecrated" that's no longer the special dwelling place of the presence of the Lord.

Maybe because the first two Temples, which were Holy to the Lord, stood there and God did once dwell on that ground. Same reasoning behind the sanctuary gate facing east remaining shut because God did once enter through (Ezekiel 44:1-2), as if someone else passing through it would desecrate it. (or, as some believe, this will be the way the Lord comes when he returns)

 

[Timtofly]

Well...as long as you believe this, you will never get anything else right.

Yes, the prophecies in the New Testament is all about the New Testament congregation of Israel, the church. Not national Israel.

Since everything else in the whole Bible from Genesis to Revelation is right, then I guess it is your belief in your alleged belief of mine that is wrong. Can I quote every verse and make whole post out of many verses with the same literary dna and make a point? Do people accept God’s Word by faith or human understanding? Is it the Holy Spirit that teaches, or I?

Should we base reality on 27 books, or all of the Bible? Does not a majority of the NT reference the OT? The church is supposed to spread the Gospel. In doing so, nations change and prosper. It is not your fault nor mine, the church tried it out from the position of government. It happened because Satan offered someone a deal and they took it. Ignoring physical reality is another deal Satan has offered the church, and they bought the deal, hook, line, and the one holding the pole.

 

[Abraxos]

Where eschatology is concerned, we have been puzzled over the things said about the third temple, about the antichrist desecrating that temple.

How can that third temple have any descriptor as being "holy" when it is well established that we who are in Christ Jesus are the temples. When that veil was ripped down the middle, and thus exposing the place where the Lord once dwelt, buildings constructed by the hands of men no longer were holy by virtue of the dwelling place of the Lord.

How is it, then, that ANY place on this earth, in the post-cross era, be "desecrated" that's no longer the special dwelling place of the presence of the Lord. Was John's inspiration, to write those things that SEEM to indicate that place as truly holy from God's perspective, meant to point more toward the perspective of the Jews? If so, then I'm wondering why he didn't express that thought clearly.

It's one thing for the antichrist to proclaim himself God, and thus demand worship, but quite another that he did so in what will allegedly be a holy place.

I've read where some speculated that the designation of "holy" is actually a reference to the hearts of people moreso than the stone temple itself. The text doesn't seem to point in that direction as being merely allegorical.

Thoughts?

Jr

In eschatology when on the subject of a "third temple" to be rebuilt (or restored), it is written that ultimately only the outer court of the temple is desecrated according to Rev. 11:2.

Revelation 11:2 But do not measure the court outside the temple; leave that out, for it is given over to the nations, and they will trample the holy city for forty-two months.

And also there is a reference in Daniel 9:27 that the desecration takes place on the 'wing of the temple' which suggests that not the whole temple complex (if you understand the tabernacle in the desert's layout) is desecrated. However, the inner court, the altar and the holiest place where the ark of the covenant sits appear to be not only intact but eternally in reverence by many according to Revelation. This implies that it is not a physical temple that many Christians seem to overlook, but a spiritual one.

It's usually good exegesis study to be aware (or to take into consideration) that the temple of the LORD has many assortments to its construction and very specific arrangments rather than being seen as a blanket term.

 

[TribulationSigns]

In eschatology when on the subject of a "third temple" to be rebuilt (or restored), it is written that ultimately only the outer court of the temple is desecrated according to Rev. 11:2.

Revelation 11:2 But do not measure the court outside the temple; leave that out, for it is given over to the nations, and they will trample the holy city for forty-two months.

Revelation 11:1-2 KJV
[1] And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
[2] But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

The temple in Revelation 11:1-2 has NOTHING to do with a physical temple or physical city of Jerusalem as premillennialists liked us to believe. God is talking about His New Testament Congregation making up of two groups of people within. The Elect and the external people.

Revelation 11:1-2 tells us who, what, and how these are to be measured. The Temple, the Altar, and those that worship therein are to be measured with the reed like a rod. It is by no means the measuring of a literal Temple (for the believers are 'also' to be measured), but this is signifying the measuring of righteousness for the exhortation and correction of the body of Christ.

• The Holy Temple is measured: Imagery of the body or tabernacle of Christ. He is the true Holy Temple of heaven into which only the righteous enter. And being in 'this form' (Romans 8:29) is the only way anyone can measure up, that they can see the Kingdom of God.
• The Altar is measured: Imagery of the righteous work of Christ, the 'only' way (Hebrews 10:19-20) to enter and become Holy. Christ was laid on that Altar and his blood shed for His people, and that is what makes those who worship in this Holy Temple 'measured' as righteous, that they can conform to it's true dimensions.
• The People are measured: Imagery that those who worship in 'this' Holy Temple are righteous living stones (because they are in Christ, who was sacrificed for them) that they can be measured as inclusive in the Lord's House (Ephesians 2:13).

Many are called, few are chosen. The few chosen are the Elect measured and saved by Christ. But many are called into the "court which is without temple" are external or covenantally link themselves with Christ. They are not actually saved. They have joined the external Covenant Churches, saying they are part of the Holy Temple, but they have not truly entered therein. They are not measured because they are not God's chosen people whom He shall give them up to the Gentiles (unsaved false prophets and christs) to be judged for their unfaithfulness. They are the professed Christians of the New Testament Congregation.

 

[Abraxos]

Revelation 11:1-2 KJV
[1] And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
[2] But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

The temple in Revelation 11:1-2 has NOTHING to do with a physical temple or physical city of Jerusalem as premillennialists liked us to believe. God is talking about His New Testament Congregation making up of two groups of people within. The Elect and the external people.

Revelation 11:1-2 tells us who, what, and how these are to be measured. The Temple, the Altar, and those that worship therein are to be measured with the reed like a rod. It is by no means the measuring of a literal Temple (for the believers are 'also' to be measured), but this is signifying the measuring of righteousness for the exhortation and correction of the body of Christ.

• The Holy Temple is measured: Imagery of the body or tabernacle of Christ. He is the true Holy Temple of heaven into which only the righteous enter. And being in 'this form' (Romans 8:29) is the only way anyone can measure up, that they can see the Kingdom of God.
• The Altar is measured: Imagery of the righteous work of Christ, the 'only' way (Hebrews 10:19-20) to enter and become Holy. Christ was laid on that Altar and his blood shed for His people, and that is what makes those who worship in this Holy Temple 'measured' as righteous, that they can conform to it's true dimensions.
• The People are measured: Imagery that those who worship in 'this' Holy Temple are righteous living stones (because they are in Christ, who was sacrificed for them) that they can be measured as inclusive in the Lord's House (Ephesians 2:13).

Many are called, few are chosen. The few chosen are the Elect measured and saved by Christ. But many are called into the "court which is without temple" are external or covenantally link themselves with Christ. They are not actually saved. They have joined the external Covenant Churches, saying they are part of the Holy Temple, but they have not truly entered therein. They are not measured because they are not God's chosen people whom He shall give them up to the Gentiles (unsaved false prophets and christs) to be judged for their unfaithfulness. They are the professed Christians of the New Testament Congregation.

...I don't believe in a literal physical temple to be rebuilt in the end-times?

 

[TribulationSigns]

...I don't believe in a literal physical temple to be rebuilt in the end-times?

Good.

 

[Abraxos]

Good.

...Get some fresh air, sir, maybe even take a break from social media as well as CF?

 

[TribulationSigns]

...Get some fresh air, sir, maybe even take a break from social media as well as CF?

Uh-uh...

I have added something to what you said as an extra reference for the readers here. And you accidentally responded with a question mark in the end...so...

I am good. Hope you learned a bunch or two.

 

[SeventyOne]

Where eschatology is concerned, we have been puzzled over the things said about the third temple, about the antichrist desecrating that temple.

How can that third temple have any descriptor as being "holy" when it is well established that we who are in Christ Jesus are the temples. When that veil was ripped down the middle, and thus exposing the place where the Lord once dwelt, buildings constructed by the hands of men no longer were holy by virtue of the dwelling place of the Lord.

How is it, then, that ANY place on this earth, in the post-cross era, be "desecrated" that's no longer the special dwelling place of the presence of the Lord. Was John's inspiration, to write those things that SEEM to indicate that place as truly holy from God's perspective, meant to point more toward the perspective of the Jews? If so, then I'm wondering why he didn't express that thought clearly.

It's one thing for the antichrist to proclaim himself God, and thus demand worship, but quite another that he did so in what will allegedly be a holy place.

I've read where some speculated that the designation of "holy" is actually a reference to the hearts of people moreso than the stone temple itself. The text doesn't seem to point in that direction as being merely allegorical.

Thoughts?

Jr

It's not allegorical. The Jews are still a people of God, although they have been placed under partial blindness for a time (Romans 11:25). They will rebuild a literal Temple, and Paul refers to this at the 'temple of God' in 2 Thessalonians 2:4.

They are fully prepared to do so at a moment's notice. All material has been obtained, priests named and trained, the Sanhedrin fully functional, initial lamb sacrifices performed, and they are scheduling the sacrifice of the red heifer. It's basically 'GO' time. At this point, if someone denies this temple will be constructed has some serious blinders on.

 

[TribulationSigns]

It's not allegorical. The Jews are still a people of God, although they have been placed under partial blindness for a time (Romans 11:25).

Uh-uh.

The Jews are under partial blindness because there are some Jews along with the Gentiles who will receive Christ by hearing the Gospel during the New Testament Period until the building of the church is finished. Even so all Israel shall be saved. Nothing to do with national Israel or national salvation for the Jews in the future as you thought.

 

[SeventyOne]

Uh-uh.

The Jews are under partial blindness because there are some Jews along with the Gentiles who will receive Christ by hearing the Gospel during the New Testament Period until the building of the church is finished. Even so all Israel shall be saved. Nothing to do with national Israel or national salvation for the Jews in the future as you thought.

And yet they are still a people of God and will be building their temple at some point in the near future. No amount of words in opposition or denial will alter any of it. Sit back and watch the show, if you are able.

 

[TribulationSigns]

And yet they are still a people of God and will be building their temple at some point in the near future. No amount of words in opposition or denial will alter any of it. Sit back and watch the show, if you are able.

You claim that the "blind" Jews are still God's people without Scripture support. You got the wrong Jews.

Both Jews and Gentiles need to be a Jew IN CHRIST!

Romans 2:28-29 KJV
[28] For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
[29] But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Romans 3:29-31 KJV
[29] Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
[30] Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
[31] Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

I do not need to sit and watch because your doctrine on national salvation for the Jews is unbiblical. Don't forget to preach to the Jews about Jesus too!

 

[SeventyOne]

You claim that the Jews are still God's people without Scripture support. You got the wrong Jews.

Both Jews and Gentiles need to be a Jew IN CHRIST!

Romans 2:28-29 KJV
[28] For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
[29] But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Romans 3:29-31 KJV
[29] Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
[30] Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
[31] Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

I do not need to sit and watch because your doctrine on national salvation for the Jews is unbiblical. Don't forget to preach to the Jews about Jesus too!

Your rejection of the still pending plans for national Israel has screwed up your outlook. I didn't say anything about individual salvation in Christ. You added that as a type of strawman then attempted to make me look as if I oppose it on some level. I'd appreciate it if you refrained from these lies against me.