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I understand you have a personal interpretations of the Bible. I absolutely disagree with your interpretation of this very clear and straightforward statement reported by John. Do you realize your interpretation is fallible?This verse is not giving permission for earthy men to forgive sins, only God can forgive our sins. It is to teach people they have the assurance of forgivness by God if they comply with all of His teachings.
As is yours. It says nothing about catholic priests has authority to forgive sins.I understand you have a personal interpretations of the Bible. I absolutely disagree with your interpretation of this very clear and straightforward statement reported by John. Do you realize your interpretation is fallible?
One wishes that were true in the case of John 20:23I believe in the scriptures just the way they read.
We've read those words from other lips before.This verse is not giving permission for earthy men to forgive sins, only God can forgive our sins.
There is no scripture in the entire bible that says humans can forgive sins, nothing you quoted gives this permission.We've read those words from other lips before.
When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralytic, 'Son, your sins are forgiven.' Now some of the scribes were sitting there, questioning in their hearts, 'Why does this fellow speak in this way? It is blasphemy! Who can forgive sins but God alone?' At once Jesus perceived in his spirit that they were discussing these questions among themselves; and he said to them, 'Why do you raise such questions in your hearts? Which is easier, to say to the paralytic, "Your sins are forgiven", or to say, "Stand up and take your mat and walk"? But so that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins'--he said to the paralytic-- 'I say to you, stand up, take your mat and go to your home.' And he stood up, and immediately took the mat and went out before all of them; so that they were all amazed and glorified God, saying, 'We have never seen anything like this!'Mark 2:5-12
So, when the Lord spoke to the apostles, was he confused about this doctrine that only God can forgive sins, did he forget the lesson that the Pharisees taught?
When it was evening on that day, the first day of the week, and the doors of the house where the disciples had met were locked for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood among them and said, 'Peace be with you.' After he said this, he showed them his hands and his side. Then the disciples rejoiced when they saw the Lord. Jesus said to them again, 'Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, so I send you.' When he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, 'Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.'John 20:19-23
It's altogether too east to talk oneself out of receiving what Jesus says as he said it.
False. The words are clear, I understand you have been taught otherwise, but the interpretation you have been taught is fallible and in error.There is no scripture in the entire bible that says humans can forgive sins, nothing you quoted gives this permission.
God’s Word tells us plainly we are to confess our sins to Jesus and we go directly to Him, there is no need for an earthy mediator, Jesus is our Mediator and High Priest who administers on our behalf, not an earthy priest. You are free to believe what you want, but my trust is in the power of Jesus Christ who tells us to go directly to Him. Amen!
Jesus referred to the bishops of the Catholic Church. Peter was he first: Mt 16:19 I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.As is yours. It says nothing about catholic priests has authority to forgive sins.
1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
He is Jesus Christ, not an earthy priest.
Revelation 1:5
5 and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler over the kings of the earth.
To Him who loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood
This should be good news, the promise of scripture that there is no mediator between man and God except for Jesus Christ. We can go directly to Jesus. Amen!
Have you seen the Lord's prayer before? I suppose one could quibble that "debts" are not "sins" but since the prayer is addressed to God and includes a petition for forgiveness it seems altogether beyond good sense to read it as if it is not a request for forgiveness of one's sins. And since the passage concludes with a lesson about forgiving sins it seems that your post's claim that there is no scripture that says human beings can forgive sins is incorrect.There is no scripture in the entire bible that says humans can forgive sins
We will have to agree to disagree.False. The words are clear, I understand you have been taught otherwise, but the interpretation you have been taught is fallible and in error.
This is probably one of the most misunderstood scriptures in some denominations.Jesus referred to the bishops of the Catholic Church. Peter was he first: Mt 16:19 I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
Have you seen the Lord's prayer before? I suppose one could quibble that "debts" are not "sins" but since the prayer is addressed to God and includes a petition for forgiveness it seems altogether beyond good sense to read it as if it is not a request for forgiveness of one's sins. And since the passage concludes with a lesson about forgiving sins it seems that your post's claim that there is no scripture that says human beings can forgive sins is incorrect.
For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.Matthew 6:14-15
I do not ask that you agree with me, my views are of no greater value than anyone else's. I hope you will agree with holy scripture; that is why I quoted scripture from the Lord's prayer, in the hope that you would acknowledge that human being do indeed forgive sins.Looks like we will probably have to agree to disagree.
I did acknowledge that and explained in context what it means- that we should forgive each other of our transgressions against one another, not that humans have the ability to forgive and cleanse of sins, that is something we are told to take to Jesus Christ. 1 John 1:9I do not ask that you agree with me, my views are of no greater value than anyone else's. I hope you will agree with holy scripture; that is why I quoted scripture from the Lord's prayer, in the hope that you would acknowledge that human being do indeed forgive sins.
Yes, indeed. One person can forgive another for whatever wrongs were done to them. And the wrong doer must seek God's grace and forgiveness for whatever offence was done to God in the wrong done. That is why confession and reconciliation play a role in a Christian's life. Sometimes guilt, fear, and numerous other things cause a Christian to need to hear the words "your sins are forgiven, go and sin no more" from one who can say it convincingly on God's behalf. The words do not, in themselves, grant forgiveness because that is a gift from God and no words are needed to give it, but the words ratify what God has done. They make it clear and sure to the penitent that God has truly heard their prayer, granted forgiveness, and cleansed their conscience of the burden of sins.I did acknowledge that and explained in context what it means- that we should forgive each other of our transgressions against one another, not that humans have the ability to forgive and cleanse of sins, that is something we are told to take to Jesus Christ. 1 John 1:9
If my friend steals from me, they committed a sin against me, and if they confess they stole from me, I should forgive them. Does that mean they don’t need to confess to Jesus over their sins, of course not. I do not have the power to cleanse them of their sins, I can just forgive what they did against me. They still need to confess what they did to Jesus so He can forgive and cleanse.
If we do not confess our sins to Jesus we will not be forgiven. If we wrong one another we should go to them, but we still need to confess to Jesus Christ directly though prayer as He is our Mediator and we are told to repent and confess to Him so we can be cleaned. Repentance means one has a changed heart and wants to turn from sin and walk with Him in obedience,Yes, indeed. One person can forgive another for whatever wrongs were done to them. And the wrong doer must seek God's grace and forgiveness for whatever offence was done to God in the wrong done. That is why confession and reconciliation play a role in a Christian's life. Sometimes guilt, fear, and numerous other things cause a Christian to need to hear the words "your sins are forgiven, go and sin no more" from one who can say it convincingly on God's behalf. The words do not, in themselves, grant forgiveness because that is a gift from God and no words are needed to give it, but the words ratify what God has done. They make it clear and sure to the penitent that God has truly heard their prayer, granted forgiveness, and cleansed their conscience of the burden of sins.
Yes, all of this is part of the rite of reconciliation. One first asks God for forgiveness, approaches God with a contrite heart, and then confesses one's most burdensome sins to the priest who is present as Christ's representative (in the flesh) and who can speak the words of absolution (in words heard with one's ears). The priest is not a mediator between the penitent and God. The priest is present to speak the forgiveness of God in words that ears hear, his words are from the scriptures, his absolution is also from the scriptures, and the comfort that such words bring to a troubled person is the comfort that the scriptures bring to a troubled person when spoken.If we do not confess our sins to Jesus we will not be forgiven. If we wrong one another we should go to them, but we still need to confess to Jesus Christ directly though prayer as He is our Mediator and we are told to repent and confess to Him so we can be cleaned. Repentance means one has a changed heart and wants to turn from sin and walk with Him in obedience,
There is no scripture that says we are to confess our sins to a priest and they have the authority to forgive and cleanse in place of Jesus Christ. Scripture tells us to confess our sins to Jesus Christ so He can cleanse us. 1 John 1:9. No one is like God or can take the place of God- scripture actually warns us of one trying to be like God. I am not trying to be disrespectful of your beliefs, but I am not buying that the Catholic priest is Christ representative in the flesh, I think this is leading a lot of people away from the scriptures and true forgiveness of sins. Life is short, this life is just a test and those who follow His Word is a lamp to our feet Psalms 119:105 so we can be united with Jesus and where there will be no more sin once and for all. Our salvation is not worth risking not going to Jesus directly like He tells us plainly in scriptures.Yes, all of this is part of the rite of reconciliation. One first asks God for forgiveness, approaches God with a contrite heart, and then confesses one's most burdensome sins to the priest who is present as Christ's representative (in the flesh) and who can speak the words of absolution (in words heard with one's ears). The priest is not a mediator between the penitent and God. The priest is present to speak the forgiveness of God in words that ears hear, his words are from the scriptures, his absolution is also from the scriptures, and the comfort that such words bring to a troubled person is the comfort that the scriptures bring to a troubled person when spoken.
Your posts are much too certain that "no such scripture exists". You ought to think a little more carefully of what the scriptures say because each time you assert that no such scripture exists it turns out that many do, in fact, exist.There is no scripture that says we are to confess our sins to a priest and they have the authority to forgive and cleanse in place of Jesus Christ. Scripture tells us to confess our sins to Jesus Christ so He can cleanse us. 1 John 1:9. No one is like God or can take the place of God- scripture actually warns us of one trying to be like God. I am not buying that the Catholic priest is Christ in the flesh, I think this is leading a lot of people away from the scriptures and true forgiveness of sins. Life is short, this life is just a test and those who follow His Word is a lamp to our feet Psalms 119:105 so we can be united with Jesus and where there will be no more sin once and for all. Our salvation is not worth risking not going to Jesus directly like He tells us plainly in scriptures.
We are going over scripture that has already been discussed. Thinking about confession.Your posts are much too certain that "no such scripture exists". You ought to think a little more carefully of what the scriptures say because each time you assert that no such scripture exists it turns out that many do, in fact, exist.
Confess therefore your sins one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The supplication of a righteous man availeth much in its working.James 5:16If we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.1 John 1:9You need not "buy" anything that the scriptures teach. It's always up to you to decide what you are willing to believe.
Of course not. No Catholic says such a thing. That kind of inexact wording is typical of Protestant critiques of alleged Catholic beliefs. What Catholics teach is this:We are going over scripture that has already been discussed. Thinking about confession.
The He in 1 John 1:9 is Jesus Christ! We are told to confess our sins to Jesus Christ and He can cleanse us from all unrighteousness. There is no such scripture that says the RCC priests can cleanse sins.
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