Think I'll sit down here for a bit... (9)

[filosofer]

Ah, Flip, I hope you realize that my cautions about contemporary worship are not an indictment across the board, but rather an encouragement for (especially pastors) discernment and solid theology in any worship service.

So, it sounds like it was great. Where did you post the video? I'd like to see it, not to critique, but to gain an appreciation of what you experienced yesterday.

Thanks.

 

[brinny]

i think the video was lost in the crash...it was powerfully moving

 

[River of Zion]

I can't say I'm all that informed about what is being spoken of in the posts below me and certainly don't want to jump in here sounding flippant, disrespectful, or as if I'm discarding what is happening.

I pray everyone had a blessed and eye opening Ressurection Day. I know me and my husband did.

It began with Scripture recieved earlier in the week and then some incredible, remarkable things that took place around us within the body of believers Easter morning- bringing to pass the Scripture received.

Our minds were truely blown away as we marveled at the works and deeds of the Lord God Almighty, right there in our midst. The rest of the afternoon really was spent in minimal chit chat and silent awe.

The wild part of this , not everything has happened. And my husband and I now sit in anticipation, wonder, and such a mix of feelings and thoughts I cannot even begin to describe!

Anywho, hope all had a blessed day in our Lord and Savior yesterday. I pray today is one as well.

 

[Flipper]

The video I posted was not at my church but an example of what it would look like - and it wasn't as good an example as I would have liked because it was done at a church that preaches decision theology and not all were giving glory to God as much as it was to their decision. If you go to YouTube and type in "Cardboard Testimony" you can see many examples.

I don't think our church will post a video of the service, but we can pick up a DVD of it next week.

That's really all I want to say about it. I'm really disturbed at the comments about contemporary services that I'm seeing on other threads. It's fine if it isn't your taste, but some of the comments I'm getting from people here are bordering on hateful, and accusing us of not being Christian enough. I never thought I would ever see the day when my dad, who is agnostic and thinks Christians are crazy, would say he enjoyed a service and would consider going back - and every bit of that service was Biblical and giving Glory to our Risen Savior. I don't know that it means he has stopped rejecting Christ, but it's a first step I never thought I would see in my lifetime. I'm not going to let the anti-comtemporary service comments diminish the significance of this, regardless of their basis.

 

[Archaenfel]

"I'm really disturbed at the comments about contemporary services that I'm seeing on other threads. It's fine if it isn't your taste, but some of the comments I'm getting from people here are bordering on hateful, and accusing us of not being Christian enough."

Well, whether you're talking about me or not, allow me to apologize if you found my comments 'hateful'. I don't mean them to be; it's just that I've had considerable experience with various contemporary worship services from a variety of denominations ... and have found them damaging to my own faith.

I'm happy for your experience with your father - perhaps such a service is just what he needs to take a first step. I hope it grows into something greater. For myself, I find that the traditional services bring me closer to God as I am not expected to ride some emotional wave or otherwise be 'uplifted'.

I am Goth: I am virtually immune to positive emotionalism ... only negativity reaches me. Visualize cheezy Japanese Anime' Hero Stance Here.

 

[WildStrawberry]

That's really all I want to say about it. I'm really disturbed at the comments about contemporary services that I'm seeing on other threads. It's fine if it isn't your taste, but some of the comments I'm getting from people here are bordering on hateful, and accusing us of not being Christian enough.

I haven't seen anything as "hateful"...more so along the lines of "contempt towards".

However... I don't agree with being in contempt towards it.

I, personally, do not like corporate contemporary worship in place of corporate traditional worship. It's a personal preference of mine. When I go to Church, I want all my focus on God. And, for ME, that means the traditional liturgies. Because I know them, I can focus more fully on Him. I don't have to spend time fumbling with the hymnal or the Worship folder.

HOWEVER...if you were to come to my house and witness me in my PERSONAL worship?? :: I'm all over the board. I like Michael W Smith and Amy Grant. I like Rich Mullens (Rest in Peace Brother!) and the Ragamuffin Band. I ADORE Skillet, Casting Crowns, Audio Adrenalin, Jars of Clay...the list goes on and on...

I'll sing my prayers sometimes and I enjoy utilizing the Psalm "tones" (my brain is escaping me right now...sorry. y'all know what I mean...right?) when doing my devotions. I dance around sometimes just because I'm so freaking HAPPY because of HIM! I raise my hands in prayer, I lift my face to Him...because He's my Abba.

But I also like the old hymns done in the old way. And sometimes it frustrates me when people try to make them "new" just because they're old. (like when the Sunday School Superintendent decided that Joyful Joyful We Adore Thee was too "boring" for the kids so she made it into a RAP. *shudder* You don't mess with Beethoven OR Bach. ) I LIKE the traditional service, the liturgy that goes back 2000 years.

And that doesn't mean that, just because it's a "Contemporary" service, it's wrong. If the service is truly Cross focused and not "Me" focused...I think God loves it all. We are to Worship HIM...and if we're doing that...how can it be wrong?

I never thought I would ever see the day when my dad, who is agnostic and thinks Christians are crazy, would say he enjoyed a service and would consider going back - and every bit of that service was Biblical and giving Glory to our Risen Savior. I don't know that it means he has stopped rejecting Christ, but it's a first step I never thought I would see in my lifetime.

Oh PRAISE GOD!!!!! I pray he'll keep coming with you so the Holy Ghost can do His work through the Word!!!

I'm not going to let the anti-comtemporary service comments diminish the significance of this, regardless of their basis.

And you shouldn't. Just because others feel contempt (and they do. And I'm sorry for it.) doesn't mean that YOU have done anything wrong.

I am Goth: I am virtually immune to positive emotionalism ... only negativity reaches me. Visualize cheezy Japanese Anime' Hero Stance Here.

Yay! Another Lutheran Goth! Woo!

 

[Studeclunker]

It's back! It's back, it's back, it's back! Oh boy, oh boy, oh boy, oh boy, oh boy....
Yay!!

 

[Flipper]

I haven't seen anything as "hateful"...more so along the lines of "contempt towards".

However... I don't agree with being in contempt towards it.

That's probably a more accurate phrase.

But I also like the old hymns done in the old way. And sometimes it frustrates me when people try to make them "new" just because they're old. (like when the Sunday School Superintendent decided that Joyful Joyful We Adore Thee was too "boring" for the kids so she made it into a RAP. *shudder* You don't mess with Beethoven OR Bach. ) I LIKE the traditional service, the liturgy that goes back 2000 years.

I appreciate that, and that's fine. We do have hymns, and most of the time, it's just a piano accompanyment. They have jazzed up some of the hymns (thank God not rapped them instead), and some I think have been tastefully done and enjoyed them, and some not so much - and some of the ones I don't like have either grown on me, or they must have really been bad because they were never done that way again (a version of Oh Come All Ye Faithful comes to mind there - it was BAD). I've been to a church with "me" music and I now see what you have all been talking about. I do believe the music people in my church carefully chooses our music to make sure that the focus is on God and not on us or our decisions. A lot of the music is written in-house. We have very talented musicians and songwriters in our congregation.

It's said here again and again, that you have to have the whole package - the liturgy, and the organ, along with the law and gospel - and that's so right, but it does the opposite affect for me. I think what made me run screaming from the Catholic church was the liturgy and the organ, because it all went along with the priest or lay deacon way up on high on the podium, talking to us like we were unintelligent heathens beneath them, and they could never do wrong with anything - 99% law, 1% gospel, they were above both. If I ended up at a Lutheran church with liturgy and organ, even with proper sermons and a good pastor, I would still run because any part of that whole package brings the whole thing back - a traditional Lutheran service to me is exactly the same as a traditional Catholic service, except that the Lutheran sermon has equal gospel and law. I had to make a clean break if I was ever going to go to church regularly again - and here was this church that was not Baptist or Non-Denominational or charismatic, and it had the Biblical elements of the liturgy, but it doesn't look anything like it.

So, when my parents came, I was rather scared they would think it was stupid. First thing they commented on was the music - they said they liked the noise. Then they actually listened to the sermon (which was not cotton candy at all), and lastly was moved by the cardboard testimonies after the sermon - I saw both dabbing their eyes. I figured out that's what has kept them out of church all this time (or at least kept my mom out - I don't think much would have brought my dad back). It clicked that the liturgy in the Catholic church did the same thing to them all these years, that it did to me, and they thought to get away from anything that reminds them of that, was to become a Baptist, or non-denominational or charismatic, and that wasn't them (or rather mom) either.

And that doesn't mean that, just because it's a "Contemporary" service, it's wrong. If the service is truly Cross focused and not "Me" focused...I think God loves it all. We are to Worship HIM...and if we're doing that...how can it be wrong?

I've been wondering the same thing, ever since I came to this little corner of the board. Frankly I never heard of Lutherans calling people who prefer the contemporary services not Lutherans until I came here. I have friends who left my church because they don't like that style, but they never once thought I wasn't Lutheran enough because I did.

 

[Studeclunker]

I believe we've wandered a bit into debate here. Whilst the conversation is still cordial, this thread's success has depended upon light conversation. May I respectfully suggest if the participants wish to continue their discussion, to start another thread and cross out of the 'kitchen' into another room? We had something like this occur last year with... oh, I don't remember if it was Communion or Baptisim, b ut this time I'm just not up to starting a thread. My state of mind is too... tumultuous.

If Seajoy will forgive a quote, here is the Original Post on this thread:

Anybody feel like talking conservatively for a few moments? I'm not talking about political stuff (sometimes it fits, though), I'm talking biblically.

I'm just tired of the debate type stuff just now...and need a little respite . Care to join me...come on in, for a cup of cocoa or egg nog .

Let's just have a friendly chat.
seajoy
__________________

Personally right now, I could use some tea and sympathy.

 

[Flipper]

If a mod wants to transfer my posts to the thread on contemporary services and how horrible they are, that's fine. I started with wanting to share about the wonderful Easter, but then I realized that if I posted details I would get slammed by the anti-contemporary service contingent, which made me kind of sad, because I was really seeing God work in all of this.

 

[QuiltAngel]

Stude,
I have some green tea and a shoulder.

 

[Studeclunker]

If a mod wants to transfer my posts to the thread on contemporary services and how horrible they are, that's fine. I started with wanting to share about the wonderful Easter, but then I realized that if I posted details I would get slammed by the anti-contemporary service contingent, which made me kind of sad, because I was really seeing God work in all of this.

Actually, I'd appreciate that too, as the whole conversation has been quite interesting. I haven't weighed in because of my state of mind. I have a tendency of being a bit... sharp. In fact, cutting myself quite often. So for the last few months, I've been doing a lot of lurking.

 

[DaRev]

There is already a current thread in the main forum on this subject.

http://www.christianforums.com/t7357316/

 

[QuiltAngel]

Flipper, I am glad to read that the service Sunday has opened doors for your parents. It has to be awesome to see a softening of their hearts.

 

[Studeclunker]

Stude,
I have some green tea and a shoulder.

Thanks Angel, you really are an angel. Right now though, I'd be best not talking in the public forum. Yesterday I posted a thread that I've regretted too late to remove in time. Sadly, there are possibly sixteen people who might have been offended by my rant. I'm just... incredibly frustrated.

Oh, and Revrand, thanks for the link.

 

[River of Zion]

Well Stude you're loved here . I hate it when I make mistakes, I play it over and over again in my head. Hope you're not doing that.

for our little corner of the forum.

Thanks seajoy for creating a place to come by, kick back, and enjoy the fellowship of the Lord's wonderful creation- each other

How is everyone? Is it warming up all you who live in the great north? Humidity seems to be climbing here!

 

[LutheranChick]

Slowly but surely, getting a bit warmer here. The weekend was beautiful. My crocuses have been blooming and now the daffodils are out. I wish my mood matched the weather better. I have job worries. Who doesn't.

 

[QuiltAngel]

Like LC, it is FINALLY warming up here. Trees are full of buds and the farmers are getting anxious to get going in the fields.

Prayers for your job worries, LC.

 

[porterross]

This ad has been playing here in UK for a few weeks. It reminded me of the dreaded debate about worship music and I thought it might lighten the mood. Has it been playing in the US?

Video: Mars revives 'Work, rest, play' slogan | Media | guardian.co.uk


ETA: Be mindful of the lax European editing before clicking on any other featured ad campaign snippets. Some from the mainland make me blush....as does a fair bit of what's shown on TV here, in actual fact.

 

[River of Zion]

I need to get my husband to instal that flashdrive thing. I read the caption though potteross, looks entertaining. Sorry about the employment situation all, hope something breaks soon. Yes, we're in the same boat. Not getting any easier either.

Those crocuses sure did bloom quick LC, weren't they your late bloomers? Trees here have done bloomed quiltangel. Shade already. It's pretty but the humidity is climbing, I don't much care for that.