Things to consider about the Ten Commandments

[Sophrosyne]

Spitting on the cross, come on. You should not keep the Sabbath because of your prejudice and bias. Sunday is the best place for you.

I have no prejudice at all, to require prejudice one must first have a compelling argument that one must keep the Sabbath. It takes prejudice and bias to ignore arguments that render the Sabbath meaningless to Christians. It takes prejudice and Bias to equate the Sabbath as on a level EQUAL to those who go to church on Sunday either voluntarily or (feeling as if it is) mandatory. I am so free from the Law I am not compelled to any specific day of worship, in fact sometimes I worship right here at home or driving in my car or even in a store shopping for groceries. I don't have to wait till Saturday to consider worship at all, I don't withhold worship saving it all up for a particular day I just pour it out when I feel like doing so. David worshipped naked one time not on the Sabbath at all and nobody condemned it for it. In other words your BIAS has you equating worship with the Sabbath when in FACT the Sabbath doesn't proclaim worship as a part of it in the Old Testament whatsoever. Worship is NOT required if you read about what the Sabbath truly entails. It is YOUR PREJUDICE that has you INSERTING Worship into the equation.... YOUR BIAS that ignored the reality that it just is NOT there in scripture backing you up.

I say worship whenever you please on whatever day you please any time any place and don't worry about setting aside a day at all. Christians should be in the spirit constantly not just on Saturday or Sunday.

 

[Sophrosyne]

The only reasonable explanation is the Apostles immediately abandoned Sabbath Keeping on Resurrection morning and NEVER even attempted to persuade Gentile Christian converts to practice the Jewish rite (they couldn't: The penalty of a Gentile trying to keep the Sabbath was a trial before the Sanhedrin and death). There is a total and complete absence of ANY Gentile keeping the Sabbath in the Bible! The message in Acts 15 could not be clearer: Gentile Christian converts would follow just 4 of the Noahide Commandments and NONE of the Mosaic Laws. The Epistles later condemned the sporadic attempts by "Judaizers" to revive the dead and moldy practice. Even Bacchiochi concedes that abandonment of the Sabbath by Jewish Christian converts was universal by 135 AD.

Personally I don't believe the Apostles stop keeping the Sabbath after the cross, I think that it was still in force not by Christ but by pain of death of the temple priesthood which still ran things there and had their own military to enforce it. I believe that from the time of the cross to the time of Paul's apostleship most "Christians" were Jews who kept the Sabbath already and even though many probably had a realization that their relationship with God had changed they were did not for the most part realize what the cross accomplished for them regarding the Law. I think once Paul came on the scene they all started waking up to Grace and the perhaps even prior to his arrival many Jewish Christians were only keeping the Sabbath out of tradition and preservation of their skin in their minds they no longer thought it competed with the Cross when it came to righteousness and sin.
I think we had a dual day Jewish Christian coupled with a Sunday only Gentile Christian. As Paul revealed Grace and the Law's position in the New Covenant the dual day Jewish Christian dropped the Sabbath when they no longer feared death from keeping it while the Gentiles were instructed that the Sabbath was essentially USELESS to them to the point that Gentiles ignored it and the council of Jerusalem saw to the ignoring of the Sabbath command for ALL Christians and I believe when the temple fell and the Law no longer had the power to kill Lawbreakers (Sabbath breakers) that most Christian believers put the Sabbath on a level of just a tradition such that if they had any decent reason to break it or found it inconvenient to keep they did so.
What we have now is Sabbath keepers that are akin to those Jews who feel the Sabbath is only tradition but they contend it is the right way to keep it but in fact their mindset is nowhere near that of those who were doing so at the time.

 

[Sophrosyne]

If you think about this poll very hard, you realize that none of the answers advocate mandatory keeping of the 10 commandments which makes one think why there is arguing here FOR the keeping of them to begin with.
Let's face it, either you say the Sabbath is property of Israel only, or you say Jesus kept the Law to himself in our place, or you say it was abolished, or you say Christians should only keep some of the commandments (but not all, making the 10 NOT the 10) or you say it has nothing to do with salvation but you should keep them anyway which makes for the question "Why bother?".

 

[Dunbar]

I have no prejudice at all, to require prejudice one must first have a compelling argument that one must keep the Sabbath. It takes prejudice and bias to ignore arguments that render the Sabbath meaningless to Christians. It takes prejudice and Bias to equate the Sabbath as on a level EQUAL to those who go to church on Sunday either voluntarily or (feeling as if it is) mandatory. I am so free from the Law I am not compelled to any specific day of worship, in fact sometimes I worship right here at home or driving in my car or even in a store shopping for groceries. I don't have to wait till Saturday to consider worship at all, I don't withhold worship saving it all up for a particular day I just pour it out when I feel like doing so. David worshipped naked one time not on the Sabbath at all and nobody condemned it for it. In other words your BIAS has you equating worship with the Sabbath when in FACT the Sabbath doesn't proclaim worship as a part of it in the Old Testament whatsoever. Worship is NOT required if you read about what the Sabbath truly entails. It is YOUR PREJUDICE that has you INSERTING Worship into the equation.... YOUR BIAS that ignored the reality that it just is NOT there in scripture backing you up.

I say worship whenever you please on whatever day you please any time any place and don't worry about setting aside a day at all. Christians should be in the spirit constantly not just on Saturday or Sunday.

If you are truly free form the Law then the Sabbath/Sunday issue should not be a problem. You equate Sabbath observance with the Law which has been true for most of it's history but that is not the day's fault. It is the fault of those people who polluted it. I equate Sunday observance with the tradition of men and the church. If you are honest you will admit that this is true. Sunday observance does not come from the bible it comes wholly from church tradition.

 

[LarryP2]

If you are truly free form the Law then the Sabbath/Sunday issue should not be a problem.

The vast, overwhelming majority of gullible biblically-illiterate Christians who fall for the Sabbath con and end up making it into a Salvational issue. That's been the case for 2,000 years. And with 17 million SDA's and 50,000 SDB's, the chances are extremely-remote that they will end up in the right one.

You equate Sabbath observance with the Law which has been true for most of it's history but that is not the day's fault.

It is still true today. 17 million SDAs completely swamp all of the other Sabbatarians by many degrees of magnitude.

It is the fault of those people who polluted it. I equate Sunday observance with the tradition of men and the church. If you are honest you will admit that this is true. Sunday observance does not come from the bible it comes wholly from church tradition.

There's PLENTY in the Bible demonstrating the Apostles energetically rejecting the Sabbath and enough to show when they were meeting and why.

 

[Sophrosyne]

If you are truly free form the Law then the Sabbath/Sunday issue should not be a problem.

But it is a problem because there are people like you who do not accept my freedom from the Law and try to convince me and others I must return to it and become yet again a slave to it.

You equate Sabbath observance with the Law which has been true for most of it's history but that is not the day's fault.

Um... I think using the phrase "day's fault" is giving it an entity unto itself. I think that the Law itself finds fault in those who try to adhere to it and those who try and keep the Sabbath Day are at fault when they fail to do so. Those who do not try to keep it are not at similar fault as those who do because they didn't fail in their efforts to begin with.

It is the fault of those people who polluted it.

Like those who do not do every jot and tittle of the Law to keep it absolutely properly? I see MOST of todays "Christian" Sabbath keepers do NOT properly keep the Sabbath they are the polluters NOT those who outright see the hypocrisy of it all and just plain REFUSE to play this game of pretend.

I equate Sunday observance with the tradition of men and the church. If you are honest you will admit that this is true. Sunday observance does not come from the bible it comes wholly from church tradition.

I also equate Sunday "observance" as a tradition, I do believe it originated with the Bible and that if one is a Christian as Paul equates we can observe ANY (or not) holy days we choose. IMO "Christian" Sabbath Keepers are ALSO doing it in tradition of men but not the Church as a whole and the men behind it are following a perverse form of Sabbath keeping that doesn't hardly resemble the Jewish version based upon Mosaic Law but one of their own choosing that is easy to do.
I detest people who put up a facade and then shout at others who refuse to do so as they boast about their facade.

 

[LarryP2]

I also equate Sunday "observance" as a tradition, I do believe it originated with the Bible and that if one is a Christian as Paul equates we can observe ANY (or not) holy days we choose. IMO "Christian" Sabbath Keepers are ALSO doing it in tradition of men but not the Church as a whole and the men behind it are following a perverse form of Sabbath keeping that doesn't hardly resemble the Jewish version based upon Mosaic Law but one of their own choosing that is easy to do.

The truth of the matter is that without immediate Sabbath abandonment at the dawn of Resurrection, Christianity would have remained a small and obscure minor sect of Judaism. There were at least 3 other Jewish sects with their own proposed Messiah that were in play at the time, and without the Resurrection and consequent abandonment of the Sabbath, Christianity would have been stillborn. There were a dwindling few Jewish Christians keeping the Sabbath remaining in Jerusalem by the time Rome outlawed Judaism entirely in 135 AD, ,but Jerusalem had become Christianity's fetid and brackish backwater by then.

The vibrant Gentile Christian churches spread like wildfire, unhampered by the yoke of the worthless and obsolete Sabbath, which Gentiles were banned from keeping under Jewish Law on penalty of Death anyway. By 135, Gentile Christians were already 99 percent of Christianity.

Gentiles had long been openly hostile to the Jewish Sabbath: Both Rome and Greece attacked Judea on the Sabbath and won major victories because the Jews refused to fight on their holy day. The revulsion and contempt both the Greeks and Romans held the Sabbath in was total: They viewed Sabbath Keepers as both stupid and lazy. A Sabbath requirement among Greeks and Romans would have made Christianity a non-starter for that reason alone.

 

[SAAN]

If the Sabbath was viewed as worthless and lazy, why is it that many Christians pretty much do they same exact things on Sunday that people used to do on Saturday and its now okay because its on a different day.

 

[LarryP2]

If the Sabbath was viewed as worthless and lazy, why is it that many Christians pretty much do they same exact things on Sunday that people used to do on Saturday and its now okay because its on a different day.

The Sabbath was a mandatory requirement for only the Jews. You break it, the Death Penalty was required. Never applied to Gentiles, Christian or not. Gentiles were subject to the Death Penalty for keeping it. Whatever you see Sabbatarians do on Saturday is most likely NOT "keeping the Sabbath" as is required. They THINK they are keeping the Sabbath, but they are not.

Sunday is a permissible activity for Christians to celebrate the Resurrection, if they want. You cannot "violate" Sunday since it is not required or mandatory. No Christian is required to do ANYTHING on Sunday.

 

[from scratch]

But it is a problem because there are people like you who do not accept my freedom from the Law and try to convince me and others I must return to it and become yet again a slave to it.
Um... I think using the phrase "day's fault" is giving it an entity unto itself. I think that the Law itself finds fault in those who try to adhere to it and those who try and keep the Sabbath Day are at fault when they fail to do so. Those who do not try to keep it are not at similar fault as those who do because they didn't fail in their efforts to begin with.
Like those who do not do every jot and tittle of the Law to keep it absolutely properly? I see MOST of todays "Christian" Sabbath keepers do NOT properly keep the Sabbath they are the polluters NOT those who outright see the hypocrisy of it all and just plain REFUSE to play this game of pretend.
I also equate Sunday "observance" as a tradition, I do believe it originated with the Bible and that if one is a Christian as Paul equates we can observe ANY (or not) holy days we choose. IMO "Christian" Sabbath Keepers are ALSO doing it in tradition of men but not the Church as a whole and the men behind it are following a perverse form of Sabbath keeping that doesn't hardly resemble the Jewish version based upon Mosaic Law but one of their own choosing that is easy to do.
I detest people who put up a facade and then shout at others who refuse to do so as they boast about their facade.

We've both been here for some time. I find it interesting that upon LarryP2 mentioning the SDB one suddenly shows up.

Its also interesting that the SDA people quit posting as much.

 

[from scratch]

If the Sabbath was viewed as worthless and lazy, why is it that many Christians pretty much do they same exact things on Sunday that people used to do on Saturday and its now okay because its on a different day.

Do the bulk of sabbatarians take Sunday off as well?

 

[Sophrosyne]

We've both been here for some time. I find it interesting that upon LarryP2 mentioning the SDB one suddenly shows up.

Its also interesting that the SDA people quit posting as much.

Yup... It is interesting when new people show up and start threads like they've been posting here for awhile already.

 

[from scratch]

Yup... It is interesting when new people show up and start threads like they've been posting here for awhile already.

 

[LarryP2]

Yup... It is interesting when new people show up and start threads like they've been posting here for awhile already.

Yes it is. And I DO find it interesting someone proclaims to be a SDB and they talk much more like an SDA than the one SDB I talked to! In fact, everything they have said so far is right out of the SDA playbook! Everything from Sunday being a Pagan worship day (Ellen White, Herbert Armstrong), to First Century Christians keeping the Sabbath (EGW) and on and on it goes.

SDBs do not come on here to argue or to convert ANYONE to Sabbath Keeping, nor do they have the SDA Papal Conspiracy Theory.

 

[from scratch]

Yes it is. And I DO find it interesting someone proclaims to be a SDB and they talk much more like an SDA than the one SDB I talked to! In fact, everything they have said so far is right out of the SDA playbook! Everything from Sunday being a Pagan worship day (Ellen White, Herbert Armstrong), to First Century Christians keeping the Sabbath (EGW) and on and on it goes.

SDBs do not come on here to argue or to convert ANYONE to Sabbath Keeping, nor do they have the SDA Papal Conspiracy Theory.

That's what I thought, too. If it waddles and quacks its probably a duck.

 

[SAAN]

Do the bulk of sabbatarians take Sunday off as well?

All the Sabbatarian I know treat Sunday like they do a Monday. I think some take it so far to make sure they are busy to the point where they cant get rest so they no one can say they rested on a Sunday.

 

[Dunbar]

Yes it is. And I DO find it interesting someone proclaims to be a SDB and they talk much more like an SDA than the one SDB I talked to! In fact, everything they have said so far is right out of the SDA playbook! Everything from Sunday being a Pagan worship day (Ellen White, Herbert Armstrong), to First Century Christians keeping the Sabbath (EGW) and on and on it goes.

SDBs do not come on here to argue or to convert ANYONE to Sabbath Keeping, nor do they have the SDA Papal Conspiracy Theory.

Oh, so now I'm not a 7th day Baptist! I was raised Lutheran and was an SDA for a time and now I am 7th day Baptist. I have relatives who are Baptist, Pentecostal and Catholic and my wife's side of the family is Jewish. I have been exposed to a plethora of religious ideas and concepts which has always driven me to the bible to see what is truth and what is error.

I did not even know this forum existed prior to a few days ago but now that I do and I see the trash that is posted here and how Sabbatarians are treated like the scum of the earth I will be posting here and getting on my soap box every chance I get. Christian's are supposed to be born again and have the Holy Spirit but the only spirit I sense in this place is from the devil.

 

[Dunbar]

False again.... very false as the Sabbath IS included in the Mosaic Law.

But if you read it - it does go back to creation. It's a memorial in the truest sense not a commandment. Kind of like Veteran's day or the 4th of July. Those memorials are not hard to keep so the Sabbath should not be either.

 

[Elder 111]

What is bad about the Ten Commandments? For instance why would God remove the first command, you should have no other god before Me? Explain!
Why do you believe that God would reject me for keeping the Ten commandments that He ordained?
If God does not want us to keep the Ten commandments, why is He writing it on our hearts?
Why is God's church identified as keeping/having the Commandments of God if the ten commandments are not for the church? Revelation 12:17.

 

[LarryP2]

But if you read it - it does go back to creation. It's a memorial in the truest sense not a commandment. Kind of like Veteran's day or the 4th of July. Those memorials are not hard to keep so the Sabbath should not be either.

No respectable Hebrew linguist agrees that "it goes back to creation." The only way you get there is by "proof texting" a verse that was mistranslated to begin with in the King James version.