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Things to consider about the Ten Commandments

What does the bible say about the Ten commandments

  • It is abolished for christians

  • Cristians should keep the Ten Commandments, not to be saved but because they are saved.

  • Jesus kept the Ten commandments so I don't have to keep it.

  • It was for Israel only and not part of the new covenant.

  • Don't know.

  • Don't care.

  • Christians should only keep some of the Ten Commandments


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Dunbar

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The 7th day Sabbath does go back to creation. Point blank what you are saying is false.

'Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.' Gen. 2:1

'Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.' Ex. 20:8-11

I don't like quoting the commandments but in this case it is relevant to the topic at hand and shows conclusively that you are wrong and reject the plainest statements of scripture.
 
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VictorC

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The 7th day Sabbath does go back to creation. Point blank what you are saying is false.

'Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.' Gen. 2:1

'Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.' Ex. 20:8-11

I don't like quoting the commandments but in this case it is relevant to the topic at hand and shows conclusively that you are wrong and reject the plainest statements of scripture.
Who is this addressed to? Did you miss what I just posted for your consideration? Do you realize that Exodus 20:11 proves that the Sabbath originated after the seventh day had already passed? Do you find anywhere an unction to "keep" the Sabbath unholy?
So many questions...
 
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VictorC

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Is says made known because it was not kept for 400 years while the Israelites were in Egyptian slavery. Patently false and a gross misrepresentation.
Those who studied the Book of the Law concluded the Sabbath was made known to Moses.
Not Abraham.
Not Enoch.
Not Adam.
The Sabbath is uniformly attributed an origin during Moses.
 
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Dunbar

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Who is this addressed to? Did you miss what I just posted for your consideration? Do you realize that Exodus 20:11 proves that the Sabbath originated after the seventh day had already passed? Do you find anywhere an unction to "keep" the Sabbath unholy?
So many questions...

This is not even a coherent or intelligent response. The 7th day and the Sabbath from the 4th commandment are on and the same. This is childish.
 
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VictorC

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This is not even a coherent or intelligent response. The 7th day and the Sabbath from the 4th commandment are on and the same. This is childish.
You haven't answered one single question.
 
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Dunbar

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Those who studied the Book of the Law concluded the Sabbath was made known to Moses.
Not Abraham.
Not Enoch.
Not Adam.
The Sabbath is uniformly attributed an origin during Moses.

Says you not the bible. The 4th commandment clearly shows it goes back to creation and was to be observed by Adam and Eve and their descendants.
 
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LarryP2

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Who is this addressed to?

I believe that statement was made in response to the lengthy authorities that I cited in detail that demonstrate the coverage of the Noahide Commandments that long pre-dated the Sinai covenant. He did not address one single word in those authorities, question their authenticity or their history.

Apparently he thinks he is the authority on the Noahides. According to him, they just did not exist, apparently.
 
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Dunbar

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I believe that statement was made in response to the lengthy authorities that I cited in detail that demonstrate the coverage of the Noahide Commandments that long pre-dated the Sinai covenant. He did not address one single word in those authorities, question their authenticity or their history.

Apparently he thinks he is the authority on the Noahides. According to him, they just did not exist, apparently.

Omission is not a license for what you are saying. The bible says that Cain feared for his life. Who was he afraid of? His brothers and sisters?
 
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LarryP2

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Omission is not a license for what you are saying. The bible says that Cain feared for his life. Who was he afraid of? His brothers and sisters?

What omissions are you talking about? You have not responded or addressed ANY of the lengthy statements I have posted regarding the Noahide Commandments. Just because Cain "feared for his life" does not mean that the Adamic covenant did not proscribe murder and punish it severely. It also mandated the formation of a legal system to punish murder.
 
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Dunbar

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What omissions are you talking about? You have not responded or addressed ANY of the lengthy statements I have posted regarding the Noahide Commandments. Just because Cain "feared for his life" does not mean that the Adamic covenant did not proscribe murder and punish it severely. It also mandated the formation of a legal system to punish murder.

Let me go back and see what the hubub is about. Can you repost these important laws given to Noah which have to bearing on anything anymore.
 
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LarryP2

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Let me go back and see what the hubub is about. Can you repost these important laws given to Noah which have to bearing on anything anymore.

They are about six posts back. But here they are again. I have NEVER had a Sabbatarian address them:

No need to speculate and guess. Following are the relevant laws and their application as given orally by Moses, and enforced with vigor by Jewish courts, up to and including the Sanhedrin. Not only does the Sabbath NOT go back to creation, but Gentiles who tried keeping it were subject to the Death Penalty:

Chapter 9.

9.1 Adam, the first man, was commanded with six commandments: 1) idolatry, 2) “blessing” (euphemistically) the Name (of G-d), 3) murder, 4) illicit sexual relations, 5) thievery and, 6) establishing a system of justice.

9.2 Even though all of these have been received as a Tradition from Moses our Teacher and we can understand the rationale for them, nevertheless, from(verses in) the Torah (we learn that) it was these that they were commanded. A seventh commandment forbidding the eating of a limb torn from a live animal was added for Noah, as it says, “Even flesh, life is in the blood, do not eat of it” (Genesis 9:4).

9.3 These commandments were universally applicable - until Abraham. With Abraham, circumcision was also commanded and he prayed Shacharis (the Morning Prayer). Isaac separated out a tithe and added another prayer in the afternoon and, with Jacob, the prohibition against eating the sciatic nerve was added, as was the Maariv (Evening) Prayer. In Egypt, Amram was commanded with other precepts81F82 and, with Moses our Teacher, the Torah was completed.
.....
10.11 A non-Jew who busied himself with Torah is liable with his life. He must involve himself in their Seven Commandments only. Similarly, a non-Jew who “rested” as one would on Shabbos, even on a weekday, is liable with the death penalty. There is no reason to mention (that he is culpable) if he invented his own holiday.

10.12 The principle here is that we do not permit them to make a new religion and create new commandments for themselves based on their own reasoning. They may only become Righteous Converts and accept upon themselves all the Commandments, or they must observe their own (Seven) Laws only, and not add or detract from them. If a non-Jew busied himself with Torah or made Shabbos or made up something new, we give him lashes and punish him and tell him that he is liable with the death penalty for doing this. But he is not executed.

http://halakhah.com/rst/kingsandwars.pdf

It's good that God did not leave the Patriarchs to guess about the Law they were under. Here's Edersheim's version of the Noahide commandments, which were deliberately left out of Patriarchs and Prophets while Ellen White was plagiarizing whole chapters out of Edersheim's Old Testament:

"Perhaps we ought also to notice in this connection that, whatever may have been the common practice before, now for the first time the use of animal food was expressly permitted, with the exception of the blood, and that probably for the reason afterwards mentioned in the case of sacrifices, that the blood was the seat of life. (Leviticus 17:11, 14) Another and most important change is marked by the solemn prohibition of murder, with this addition, that "whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed." Such crimes were no longer to be avenged directly by God Himself, but He delegated His authority to man. (Romans 8:1, 2) As Luther rightly says, "In these words the civil magistracy is instituted, and the Divine right of bearing the sword." For when it is added, as a reason why murder should be punished with death, that God made man in His own image, it seems to convey that vengeance might not be taken by any one at his own will, but that this belonged to those who on earth represented the authority of God, or were His delegates; whence also they are called in Psalm 82:6, "gods," or rather "Elohim."* And, as Luther rightly argues, "If God concedes to man the power over life and death, assuredly this carries with it authority over that which is less than life, such as goods, family, wife, children, servants, and land." Thus the words spoken by the Lord to Noah contain the warrant and authority of those who are appointed rulers and judges over us. In later times the Jews have been wont to speak of what they called the seven Noachic commandments, which, according to them, were binding upon all Gentile proselytes. These were a prohibition (1) of idolatry, (2) of blasphemy, (3) of murder,
(4) of incest, (5) of robbery and theft, (6) of eating blood and strangled animals, and (7) an injunction of obedience to magistrates. (Comp. also Acts 15:20)."
Chapter 7

And here is how the Sanhedrin viewed its duty to enforce the Noahide Commandments in areas under its jurisdiction:

"Having established that the Noachide commandments are binding on Gentiles, and that lack of knowledge does not excuse obligation, it is necessary to explore what the commandments are. The talmud[28] recounts seven categories of prohibition: idol worship, taking God's name in vain, murder, prohibited sexual activity, theft, eating flesh from a living animal, and the obligation to enforce laws. As is obvious from this list, these seven commandments are generalities which contain within them many specifications -- thus, for example, the single categorical prohibition of sexual promiscuity includes both adultery and the various forms of incest.[29] As has been noted already, these Noachide laws appear to encompass nearly 60 of the 613 biblical commandments incumbent on Jews, which is nearly one in four of those biblical commandments generally applicable in post-temple times."
....
"However, disputes about the details should not be overstated to undermine the clarity of the general principles. The application of Noachide law to many general areas is relatively clear. Homosexuality is forbidden,[37] as is adultery[38] and bestiality.[39] Murder is prohibited, and subsumed in the prohibition of murder is abortion.[40] So too, most forms of theft are prohibited, as is eating the flesh of a living animal.[41] Indeed, the general Noachide laws share a common base of "ethics" that most religious peoples would share."
http://www.jlaw.com/Articles/noach2.html#noachide

The history is absolutely solid: NONE of the Patriarchs prior to Moses were given the Sabbath.
 
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Dunbar

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They are about six posts back. But here they are again. I have NEVER had a Sabbatarian address them:

No need to speculate and guess. Following are the relevant laws and their application as given orally by Moses, and enforced with vigor by Jewish courts, up to and including the Sanhedrin. Not only does the Sabbath NOT go back to creation, but Gentiles who tried keeping it were subject to the Death Penalty:

Chapter 9.

9.1 Adam, the first man, was commanded with six commandments: 1) idolatry, 2) “blessing” (euphemistically) the Name (of G-d), 3) murder, 4) illicit sexual relations, 5) thievery and, 6) establishing a system of justice.

9.2 Even though all of these have been received as a Tradition from Moses our Teacher and we can understand the rationale for them, nevertheless, from(verses in) the Torah (we learn that) it was these that they were commanded. A seventh commandment forbidding the eating of a limb torn from a live animal was added for Noah, as it says, “Even flesh, life is in the blood, do not eat of it” (Genesis 9:4).

9.3 These commandments were universally applicable - until Abraham. With Abraham, circumcision was also commanded and he prayed Shacharis (the Morning Prayer). Isaac separated out a tithe and added another prayer in the afternoon and, with Jacob, the prohibition against eating the sciatic nerve was added, as was the Maariv (Evening) Prayer. In Egypt, Amram was commanded with other precepts81F82 and, with Moses our Teacher, the Torah was completed.
.....
10.11 A non-Jew who busied himself with Torah is liable with his life. He must involve himself in their Seven Commandments only. Similarly, a non-Jew who “rested” as one would on Shabbos, even on a weekday, is liable with the death penalty. There is no reason to mention (that he is culpable) if he invented his own holiday.

10.12 The principle here is that we do not permit them to make a new religion and create new commandments for themselves based on their own reasoning. They may only become Righteous Converts and accept upon themselves all the Commandments, or they must observe their own (Seven) Laws only, and not add or detract from them. If a non-Jew busied himself with Torah or made Shabbos or made up something new, we give him lashes and punish him and tell him that he is liable with the death penalty for doing this. But he is not executed.

http://halakhah.com/rst/kingsandwars.pdf

It's good that God did not leave the Patriarchs to guess about the Law they were under. Here's Edersheim's version of the Noahide commandments, which were deliberately left out of Patriarchs and Prophets while Ellen White was plagiarizing whole chapters out of Edersheim's Old Testament:

"Perhaps we ought also to notice in this connection that, whatever may have been the common practice before, now for the first time the use of animal food was expressly permitted, with the exception of the blood, and that probably for the reason afterwards mentioned in the case of sacrifices, that the blood was the seat of life. (Leviticus 17:11, 14) Another and most important change is marked by the solemn prohibition of murder, with this addition, that "whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed." Such crimes were no longer to be avenged directly by God Himself, but He delegated His authority to man. (Romans 8:1, 2) As Luther rightly says, "In these words the civil magistracy is instituted, and the Divine right of bearing the sword." For when it is added, as a reason why murder should be punished with death, that God made man in His own image, it seems to convey that vengeance might not be taken by any one at his own will, but that this belonged to those who on earth represented the authority of God, or were His delegates; whence also they are called in Psalm 82:6, "gods," or rather "Elohim."* And, as Luther rightly argues, "If God concedes to man the power over life and death, assuredly this carries with it authority over that which is less than life, such as goods, family, wife, children, servants, and land." Thus the words spoken by the Lord to Noah contain the warrant and authority of those who are appointed rulers and judges over us. In later times the Jews have been wont to speak of what they called the seven Noachic commandments, which, according to them, were binding upon all Gentile proselytes. These were a prohibition (1) of idolatry, (2) of blasphemy, (3) of murder,
(4) of incest, (5) of robbery and theft, (6) of eating blood and strangled animals, and (7) an injunction of obedience to magistrates. (Comp. also Acts 15:20)."
Chapter 7

And here is how the Sanhedrin viewed its duty to enforce the Noahide Commandments in areas under its jurisdiction:

"Having established that the Noachide commandments are binding on Gentiles, and that lack of knowledge does not excuse obligation, it is necessary to explore what the commandments are. The talmud[28] recounts seven categories of prohibition: idol worship, taking God's name in vain, murder, prohibited sexual activity, theft, eating flesh from a living animal, and the obligation to enforce laws. As is obvious from this list, these seven commandments are generalities which contain within them many specifications -- thus, for example, the single categorical prohibition of sexual promiscuity includes both adultery and the various forms of incest.[29] As has been noted already, these Noachide laws appear to encompass nearly 60 of the 613 biblical commandments incumbent on Jews, which is nearly one in four of those biblical commandments generally applicable in post-temple times."
....
"However, disputes about the details should not be overstated to undermine the clarity of the general principles. The application of Noachide law to many general areas is relatively clear. Homosexuality is forbidden,[37] as is adultery[38] and bestiality.[39] Murder is prohibited, and subsumed in the prohibition of murder is abortion.[40] So too, most forms of theft are prohibited, as is eating the flesh of a living animal.[41] Indeed, the general Noachide laws share a common base of "ethics" that most religious peoples would share."
Jewish Law - Articles - The Obligation of Jews to Seek Observance of Noachide Laws by Gentiles: A Theoretical Review

The history is absolutely solid: NONE of the Patriarchs prior to Moses were given the Sabbath.

I disagree. I think the patriarchs offered sacrifice which very little is said about. I also think they observed the 7th day which very little is said about. But even if they did not, I don't have a problem with it. The Israelites did not keep the 7th day or any day for 400 years in Egyptian slavery. It's not a deal breaker. God works with what he has.
 
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You have a proud attitude because Sunday is popular and kept by the majority of Christians. I am not downing the Catholic church when I say that Sunday worship originated with them. It is a fact of history that you are too weak to admit. The Catholics readily admit this. Why can't Protestants? No, they have to dream up fairy tales like Sunday being the Lord's day so they don't have to face the cold hard truth. Their customs are Catholic and not scriptural. It's very sad how weak Christians have become. Like little mice afraid to question anything for fear of what they might find. All the skeletons that lie in the closet. We're all going to have to face the truth some day.
I don't think that's the case. You need to bone up on history and even the Bible. The Bible clearly shows Christians worshipping on Sunday as early as 55-60 AD. Several documents from history have been cited in this particular forum if not thread. All of which show Christians worshipping on Sunday prior to the RCC coming to prominence and power.
 
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VictorC

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Says you not the bible. The 4th commandment clearly shows it goes back to creation and was to be observed by Adam and Eve and their descendants.
Says the Bible, just as I provided in bullet format.
And remember that you were a slave in the land of Egypt, and the Lord your God brought you out from there by a mighty hand and by an outstretched arm; therefore the Lord your God commanded you to keep the Sabbath day.
The impetus always precedes the resulting action. Always, or else it can't be referenced as a reason to ordain the Sabbath. This same sentence structure is used in Exodus 20:11. The "4th commandment" shows that the Sabbath came after the seventh day had passed, just as it shows the Sabbath came after the exodus from Egyptian bondage.
 
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LarryP2

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I disagree. I think the patriarchs offered sacrifice which very little is said about. I also think they observed the 7th day which very little is said about. But even if they did not, I don't have a problem with it. The Israelites did not keep the 7th day or any day for 400 years in Egyptian slavery. It's not a deal breaker. God works with what he has.

On what basis do you "disagree?" What I have posted is the undisputed law that was enforced from Adam until Moses. Under the Mosaic regime, those Noahide Commandments were vigorously-enforced against Gentiles living amongst the Children of Israel by the Jewish legal authorities.

That is beyond dispute
 
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