Things to consider about the Ten Commandments

[Frogster]

One covenant covers one group, but not another. Under the Noahide Covenant, it covered everyone. Under the Mosaic Law, it covered only the Children of Israel and excluded Gentiles completely. Under the New Covenant, now that the law had served its purpose and was now discarded, the Gentiles had all of the benefits of the law plus personal holiness (which the Mosaic Law NEVER provided.)

Then why are Jews and Greeks, then and now, only saved via the new cov?

If it was not for gentiles, why do they get saved in the new Cov?

Iconium anyone, Acts 14?

The inclusive gosepl is the new cov, let me know if you want text.

 

[Frogster]

God didn't change. God changed the covenants. The covenants aren't God.

 

[NorrinRadd]

I can't vote, because multiple responses are equally correct, but the poll's use of "radio buttons" instead of "check boxes" means only one answer can be chosen.

 

[Elder 111]

One covenant covers one group, but not another. Under the Noahide Covenant, it covered everyone. Under the Mosaic Law, it covered only the Children of Israel and excluded Gentiles completely. Under the New Covenant, now that the law had served its purpose and was now discarded, the Gentiles had all of the benefits of the law plus personal holiness (which the Mosaic Law NEVER provided.)

According to Paul you are absolutely wrong! Is not Paul saying that Gentles are Jews and are keeping the Ten Commandments?
Romans 2
20 An instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law.
21 Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal?
22 Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege?
23 Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God?
24 For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written.
25 For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.
26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?
27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?
28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

 

[Elder 111]

But Paul was a new cov minister as he ministered mostly to gentiles, the old cov, I have shown in prior posts was given to israel.. Paul did not preach the old cov to either party. See Acts 14, same gospel of grace, as they, Jew and Greek were being saved by in Iconium, as Jesus bore witness to the word of His grace, not the old cov.

The Abrahmic gospel of gal 3:8, a Gen 12:3 reference, said "all the families" of the earth, all...that would be gentiles.

Abraham was used to ward off the old cov teachers.

What is the difference between the new and the old. Does Jeremiah or Hebrews say that it is the removal of the law?

 

[Elder 111]

God didn't change. God changed the covenants. The covenants aren't God.

Why did He change it?

 

[LarryP2]

According to Paul you are absolutely wrong! Is not Paul saying that Gentles are Jews and are keeping the Ten Commandments?
Romans 2
20 An instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law.
21 Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal?
22 Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege?
23 Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God?
24 For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written.
25 For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.
26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?
27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?
28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

That's exactly why Jesus and Paul restated 9 of the 10 Commandments 3 times between them in the New Testament, except for the Sabbath. Why would they do that if the Gentiles had ever been under the Ten Commandments? I have read the Sanhedrin cases enforcing the Noahide Commandments against Gentiles and discussing the Death Penalty on Gentiles who tried keeping the Sabbath.

Just because Ellen White decided to deceive Seventh Day Adventists about the existence of the Noahide Commandments does not mean they did not exist or that they were not mentioned in the Bible. She was merely making a dishonest argument that the Ten Commandments covered everyone.

 

[Elder 111]

Then the Gentile can never possess salvation.

Question for you - Is there anything in Acts showing Gentiles became Jews to possess salvation? I'll even accept anything else you can show in the New Testament showing Gentiles became as Jews to possess salvation.

Romans 2 from verse 20 Romans 4: 13-17 Gal. 3:28-29.

 

[Elder 111]

He changed his mind, what is so hard about that?

The God you know may change His mind but the perfect God of the bible does not.

 

[Elder 111]

Ex 23:7 Keep far from a false charge, and do not kill the innocent and righteous, for I will not acquit the wicked.

Rom 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.


Please explain this text here.

What is your point here?
Does not God forgive the repentant? It would therefore be that the repentant "ungodly" man would receive forgiveness and obviously the unrepentant will not, and therefore would not be acquitted? There is no conflicting statement or a change of mind by God here is there?

 

[Frogster]

According to Paul you are absolutely wrong! Is not Paul saying that Gentles are Jews and are keeping the Ten Commandments?
Romans 2
20 An instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law.
21 Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal?
22 Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege?
23 Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God?
24 For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written.
25 For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision. 26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?
27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?
28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

No he is not! he is using that chapter to show how no one kept the law, they are all about to be judged in 3:19-20, because the law shows the knowledge of sin, and that is that!

 

[VictorC]

According to Paul you are absolutely wrong! Is not Paul saying that Gentles are Jews and are keeping the Ten Commandments?

No.
Your quote shows that the Law wasn't a new covenant promise.

 

[VictorC]

The God you know may change His mind but the perfect God of the bible does not.

And yet you choose to hinder His covenant of promise dating 430 years before the Ten Commandments existed.

Galatians 3:13-14
Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”), 14 that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.​

 

[VictorC]

God didn't change. God changed the covenants. The covenants aren't God.

Why did He change it?

You aren't learning anything, are you?

You quoted Jeremiah 31:32 in your OP, but obviously didn't take the time to read it.

 

[VictorC]

Romans 2 from verse 20 Romans 4: 13-17 Gal. 3:28-29.

Nope, not even close. You didn't satisfy the request 'from scratch' challenged you with.

 

[from scratch]

Romans 2 from verse 20 Romans 4: 13-17 Gal. 3:28-29.

I'm with VictorC here. You come up real short and wanting.
The best one you have is Ro 2:29 about being a Jew inwardly. That says nothing about becoming a Jew.

 

[Frogster]

People argue about where Paul starts in about the Jewish people, in 1, or the beginning of 2, etc, but bottom line, 2:29 is not about gentiles, as earlier, those without the law in 2:12. even 2:14 says they do not have THE law 2 times.

 

[Frogster]

Some say chapter 1, because they made images, wilderness, but I lean early 2.

Verses 2:2, and 2:4 would be directed at Jews who...knew..


2:2 We know that the judgment of God rightly falls on those who practice such things.

And the Jew would know..

2:4 Or do you presume on the riches of his kindness and forbearance and patience, not knowing that God's kindness is meant to lead you to repentance?

But to me the best is this, the last verse of 1 says this...they were in approval.


1:32 Though they know God's righteous decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them.

So why would they now judge in 2:1, if they just gave approval, that shows a change in the people there, Paul is now talking about a different group.

2:1 Therefore you have no excuse, O man, every one of you who judges. For in passing judgment on another you condemn yourself, because you, the judge, practice the very same things.



Why would the Jew approve of such things, those things in 1:32?

They were not perfect, we know from 2, they robbed temples too, but they would not approve, that would cross a line.

 

[from scratch]

No.
Your quote shows that the Law wasn't a new covenant promise.

 

[Elder 111]

No he is not! he is using that chapter to show how no one kept the law, they are all about to be judged in 3:19-20, because the law shows the knowledge of sin, and that is that!

27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?
What does fulfill mean?

2.
carry out (a task, duty, or role) as required, pledged, or expected.
"some officials were dismissed because they could not fulfill their duties"
synonyms:carry out, perform, accomplish, execute, do, discharge, conduct; So the Gentles kept the law!