Things to consider about the Ten Commandments

[Elder 111]

• The new covenant did not involve the removal of the law but the renewal of it. Jer 31: 31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Hebrews 10:
15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

• Both covenants were made with Israel as is also seen above, so that it is not a case of the Ten commandments being for Israel and not for us. If we accept the new covenant we must also accept the Ten commandments. Romans 9:4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;
• Jesus made it clear that the law will always stand. Fulfill does not mean removed or abolished. Fulfill mean to carry out, to do or have done as required. Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
  18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
  19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
• If Jesus is in us and we as His children do His will, would we not do as He did? Gal. 2:
  20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me (note that, as Paul declared in verse 16, we are not seeking salvation by works we are just living as Christ would live).
• Is not the law a refection of God's character? Isa. 45: 21 Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the Lord? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me. Ps. 99:9 Exalt the Lord our God, and worship at his holy hill; for the Lord our God is holy. Mark 10:18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God. Look now at how Paul describes the law. Romans 7;
  12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
  
• Consider this also the Ten commandments were in the Art of the covenant, which was under the mercy seat where God would be seated between the cherubims. So in fact you had to remove God to remove His ten Commandments. And to think that this was a copy of what is in heaven. Ex. 25:9,16,40, Heb 8:2.

 

[from scratch]

• The new covenant did not involve the removal of the law but the renewal of it. Jer 31: 31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Hebrews 10:
15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

• Both covenants were made with Israel as is also seen above, so that it is not a case of the Ten commandments being for Israel and not for us. If we accept the new covenant we must also accept the Ten commandments. Romans 9:4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;
• Jesus made it clear that the law will always stand. Fulfill does not mean removed or abolished. Fulfill mean to carry out, to do or have done as required. Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
  18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
  19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
• If Jesus is in us and we as His children do His will, would we not do as He did? Gal. 2:
  20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me (note that, as Paul declared in verse 16, we are not seeking salvation by works we are just living as Christ would live).
• Is not the law a refection of God's character? Isa. 45: 21 Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the Lord? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me. Ps. 99:9 Exalt the Lord our God, and worship at his holy hill; for the Lord our God is holy. Mark 10:18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God. Look now at how Paul describes the law. Romans 7;
  12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
  
• Consider this also the Ten commandments were in the Art of the covenant, which was under the mercy seat where God would be seated between the cherubims. So in fact you had to remove God to remove His ten Commandments. And to think that this was a copy of what is in heaven. Ex. 25:9,16,40, Heb 8:2.

I see you're still having problems with the code words. You have the above quote from Jeremiah conflicting itself and therefore a lie.

It plainly says new which doesn't mean revamped, remodeled, renewed, amended. has a prior history, etc.

It furthermore says not according to which doesn't mean just like. But a problem I see is you have an amended version of even the stone tablets which allows for your position of renewed and amended continuing covenant.

When one looks at and examines the New Testament, I certainly can't understand how an individual can continue to hold your position. Perhaps this is why the New Testament isn't accepted in whole. The position is that God can't change. The truth is God made several conflicting covenants. Just read the Bible. The covenant made with Noah is conflicted with the covenant given to Israel for instance. Anyone can see progressive change as the story of salvation unfolds in the Bible if they will just read it. It isn't God that changes. It is the way God deals with mankind that changes. This is purposed from before creation to show God's incredible unequaled love satan can't destroy.

 

[Frogster]

Are we talking about the ministry of death and condemnation on stones 2 Cor 3?

Are we talking about the 10 that sin used in Rom 7?

The stones were for the old cov tabernacle, Heb 9:4.

 

[Elder 111]

I see you're still having problems with the code words. You have the above quote from Jeremiah conflicting itself and therefore a lie.

It plainly says new which doesn't mean revamped, remodeled, renewed, amended. has a prior history, etc.

It furthermore says not according to which doesn't mean just like. But a problem I see is you have an amended version of even the stone tablets which allows for your position of renewed and amended continuing covenant.

When one looks at and examines the New Testament, I certainly can't understand how an individual can continue to hold your position. Perhaps this is why the New Testament isn't accepted in whole. The position is that God can't change. The truth is God made several conflicting covenants. Just read the Bible. The covenant made with Noah is conflicted with the covenant given to Israel for instance. Anyone can see progressive change as the story of salvation unfolds in the Bible if they will just read it. It isn't God that changes. It is the way God deals with mankind that changes. This is purposed from before creation to show God's incredible unequaled love satan can't destroy.

How can God not change and yet make conflicting covenants? That does not not sound logical.

 

[Frogster]

• The new covenant did not involve the removal of the law but the renewal of it. Jer 31: 31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Hebrews 10:
15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

• Both covenants were made with Israel as is also seen above, so that it is not a case of the Ten commandments being for Israel and not for us. If we accept the new covenant we must also accept the Ten commandments. Romans 9:4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;
• Jesus made it clear that the law will always stand. Fulfill does not mean removed or abolished. Fulfill mean to carry out, to do or have done as required. Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
  18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
  19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
• If Jesus is in us and we as His children do His will, would we not do as He did? Gal. 2:
  20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me (note that, as Paul declared in verse 16, we are not seeking salvation by works we are just living as Christ would live).
• Is not the law a refection of God's character? Isa. 45: 21 Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the Lord? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me. Ps. 99:9 Exalt the Lord our God, and worship at his holy hill; for the Lord our God is holy. Mark 10:18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God. Look now at how Paul describes the law. Romans 7;
  12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
  
• Consider this also the Ten commandments were in the Art of the covenant, which was under the mercy seat where God would be seated between the cherubims. So in fact you had to remove God to remove His ten Commandments. And to think that this was a copy of what is in heaven. Ex. 25:9,16,40, Heb 8:2.

red above, yes, given to israel, (Rom 9:4)not the church, there are numerous verses that show that the law was given to them.

But the new kainos man of eph 2:15, that of Jew and greek, came with the abolishment of the law.

 

[Frogster]

How can God not change and yet make conflicting covenants? That does not not sound logical.

He announced the change, in jer 31, right during the old cov.

Besides, he used to not justify the ungodly, but now he does as per rom 4.

The oath came later than the law, Heb 7:28, chronolgical information is important.

Ex 23:7 Keep far from a false charge, and do not kill the innocent and righteous, for I will not acquit the wicked.


Rom 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

 

[Frogster]

How can God not change and yet make conflicting covenants? That does not not sound logical.

They are conflicting, or the law of circumcision would have to be enforced in Acts 15, and it was not. SDA people don't keep feast laws.So perhaps you can tell us why God is writing food laws, the 10, but not feast laws on our hearts? I mean which laws are written on our hearts? Some, 1, 8, 613?

Circumcised on the 8th day, was a law.

 

[Elder 111]

red above, yes, given to israel, (Rom 9:4)not the church, there are numerous verses that show that the law was given to them.

But the new kainos man of eph 2:15, that of Jew and greek, came with the abolishment of the law.

There is no scripture that says so. The law was given to Israel with both covenants that is clearly stated. Is it not?

 

[Elder 111]

Originally Posted by Elder 111

How can God not change and yet make conflicting covenants? That does not not sound logical.
​

He announced the change, in jer 31, right during the old cov.

Besides, he used to not justify the ungodly, but now he does as per rom 4.

The oath came later than the law, Heb 7:28, chronolgical information is important.

Ex 23:7 Keep far from a false charge, and do not kill the innocent and righteous, for I will not acquit the wicked.


Rom 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

You have not ansswered the question!

 

[LarryP2]

Originally Posted by Elder 111

How can God not change and yet make conflicting covenants? That does not not sound logical.
​

You have not ansswered the question!

One covenant covers one group, but not another. Under the Noahide Covenant, it covered everyone. Under the Mosaic Law, it covered only the Children of Israel and excluded Gentiles completely. Under the New Covenant, now that the law had served its purpose and was now discarded, the Gentiles had all of the benefits of the law plus personal holiness (which the Mosaic Law NEVER provided.)

 

[Frogster]

There is no scripture that says so. The law was given to Israel with both covenants that is clearly stated. Is it not?

But Paul was a new cov minister as he ministered mostly to gentiles, the old cov, I have shown in prior posts was given to israel.. Paul did not preach the old cov to either party. See Acts 14, same gospel of grace, as they, Jew and Greek were being saved by in Iconium, as Jesus bore witness to the word of His grace, not the old cov.

The Abrahmic gospel of gal 3:8, a Gen 12:3 reference, said "all the families" of the earth, all...that would be gentiles.

Abraham was used to ward off the old cov teachers.

 

[from scratch]

How can God not change and yet make conflicting covenants? That does not not sound logical.

God didn't change. God changed the covenants. The covenants aren't God.

 

[from scratch]

There is no scripture that says so. The law was given to Israel with both covenants that is clearly stated. Is it not?

Then the Gentile can never possess salvation.

Question for you - Is there anything in Acts showing Gentiles became Jews to possess salvation? I'll even accept anything else you can show in the New Testament showing Gentiles became as Jews to possess salvation.

 

[from scratch]

Originally Posted by Elder 111

How can God not change and yet make conflicting covenants? That does not not sound logical.
​

You have not ansswered the question!

God is a true sovereign. Can you take that away from God?

 

[from scratch]

One covenant covers one group, but not another. Under the Noahide Covenant, it covered everyone. Under the Mosaic Law, it covered only the Children of Israel and excluded Gentiles completely. Under the New Covenant, now that the law had served its purpose and was now discarded, the Gentiles had all of the benefits of the law plus personal holiness (which the Mosaic Law NEVER provided.)

 

[VictorC]

What does the bible say about the Ten commandments

• It is abolished for christians
• Cristians should keep the Ten Commandments, not to be saved but because they are saved.
• Jesus kept the Ten commandments so I don't have to keep it.
• It was for Israel only and not part of the new covenant.
• Don't know.
• Don't care.
• Christians should only keep some of the Ten Commandments

There's a poll appearing in this thread!
Why aren't any of the suggested responses cognizant of what the Ten Commandments was?
Elder111, what was the Ten Commandments according to the Bible?

 

[VictorC]

How can God not change and yet make conflicting covenants? That does not not sound logical.

You quoted Jeremiah 31:32 in your OP, but obviously didn't take the time to read it.

 

[Frogster]

There is no scripture that says so. The law was given to Israel with both covenants that is clearly stated. Is it not?

You ignore the cov given to pre israel Abraham, and the gentiles, a cov that Paul uses, to ward of those who want the old cov, so you have explaining to do, not the frog.

Why was Paul, the apostle mostly to gentiles a new cov minister, 2 Cor 3, and why were the predominantly gentile filled church, that of Corinth, taking the new cov in chapter 11?

 

[Frogster]

Originally Posted by Elder 111

How can God not change and yet make conflicting covenants? That does not not sound logical.
​

You have not ansswered the question!

He changed his mind, what is so hard about that?

 

[Frogster]

How can God not change and yet make conflicting covenants? That does not not sound logical.

Ex 23:7 Keep far from a false charge, and do not kill the innocent and righteous, for I will not acquit the wicked.

Rom 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.


Please explain this text here.