They Call It Roman

[TraderJack]

Originally Posted by Rhamiel
we are getting off topic, the name of the Church is Roman Catholic, that is the topic of debate, I prefer to call it Catholic, but if you want to call it Roman Catholic that is great, I am just glad that it is not being called such degrading names like "the Roman religious system" or things like that

Reminds me of how hard we had to work to have our churches not called "ecclesial communities" instead of "churches."

Or the fact that "Protestants" was a slur invented by the Romans to smear True Catholics, and is still used today.

Or the fact that "Lutherans" was a slur invented by the Romans for those who called themselves, "Evangelical Catholics" as a smear.

Or the fact that "Calvinists" was a slur invented by the Romans for "Reformed Catholics" as a smear.

But do we get offended, or take on a victim mentality over that? No.

One would wish Romans wouldn't either.

 

[Rhamiel]

Or the fact that "Protestants" was a slur invented by the Romans to smear True Catholics, and is still used today.

Or the fact that "Lutherans" was a slur invented by the Romans for those who called themselves, "Evangelical Catholics" as a smear.

Or the fact that "Calvinists" was a slur invented by the Romans for "Reformed Catholics" as a smear.

But do we get offended, or take on a victim mentality over that? No.

One would wish Romans wouldn't either

Lutheran is the common word in modern english for that denomination, "romans" is not the common way to refer to roman catholics, if anything most people just call us "catholics"

 

[mont974x4]

Regardless, it was not and is not a slur.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Lutheran is the common word in modern english for that denomination, "romans" is not the common way to refer to roman catholics, if anything most people just call us "catholics"

So you are a Catholic catholic?

 

[TraderJack]

Lutheran is the common word in modern english for that denomination

Sorry, but that argument does not wash. Romans, Romanists, are also common terms.

"romans" is not the common way to refer to roman catholics

Sure it is, it is as common as "Protestant", "Lutherans" or "Calvinists"
You cannot have it both ways.

You see, here is the way the Roman argument goes:

"Roman" is a slur invented by Protestants during the Reformation, so we are offended."

Well, it is a HISTORICAL FACT, as has been proven by this thread from ROMAN sources, that is simply a fallacy.

But the argument is one made from history, as being a slur that originated from "protestants" during the Reformation.

However, that exact same ethic is not held by Romans when in comes to the terms, "Protestants", "Lutherans" or "Calvinists" which WERE slurs invented by Romans to smear True Catholics with.

Now, if you apply the same ethic in both cases then maybe we have something to discuss, but as long as you want to have it one way, then the argument is one of a doublestandard, is pure fallacy and like a cloud with no rain.

 

[Rhamiel]

So you are a Catholic catholic?

that is just how the other people see us, Catholic, TraderJack was using technical terms for protestant denominations and a very loose term for the Roman Catholic Church
"Roman Church" is misleading, it ignores all the eastern rites of the Catholic Church

 

[Rhamiel]

Romans, Romanists, are also common terms.

it is not common, you do not see news paper articals use the term "romanist" you do not see Roman Catholics self identify as "Romanists" unless they are using sarcasm agianst anti-catholics
I hear anti-catholics use the term "romanist" a lot though

 

[TraderJack]

Regardless, it was not and is not a slur.

But "Protestants", "Lutherans" and "Calvinists" are.

 

[tadoflamb]

But "Protestants", "Lutherans" and "Calvinists" are.

If Protestant is a slur, why is it embossed in gold letters on the cover of my grandmothers KJV?

 

[TraderJack]

it is not common, you do not see news paper articals use the term "romanist"

Firstly, if you are relying on "newspapers" as your source, then I truly feel sorry for you.

If you actually read theological materials, then yes it is very common.

Now, see if you can apply your ethic in both instances instead of using a doublestandard.

 

[TraderJack]

If Protestant is a slur, why is it embossed in gold letters on the cover of my grandmothers KJV?

We took on the slur invented by Romans during the Reformation, and wear it proudly.

But that does not change the FACT, that it was a slur invented by Romans during the Reformation.

You see, that is the very argument YOU try to use for "Roman", when in fact your argument is baseless and not true at all, for has been proven, "Roman" had been in use by ROME ITSELF for centuries and was not a slur invented by True Catholics at all.

But I realize that the facts are meaningless to Romans who are intent on purporting and trying to defend what is defenseless.

 

[Rhamiel]

Firstly, if you are relying on "newspapers" as your source, then I truly feel sorry for you.

If you actually read theological materials, then yes it is very common.

what is wrong with using newspaper as a source, the media is a reflection of our culture, not a perfect reflection but it is what it is.
Theological Materials? that is kind vague, I would say the only theological materials that use the term "romanist" are either anacronistic or have a bias.

 

[TraderJack]

what is wrong with using newspaper as a source, the media is a reflection of our culture

Lets see if we can approach this from a rational stance.

Does the "media" reflect the religious community"?

Does the religious community relect the "culture"?

After all, we are talking about religious matters.

To rely on "newspapers" in religious matters is simply ridiculous.

Now try applying the ethic you argue in both circumstances instead of using a doublestandard. that only applies it on one case, which has already been proven to be a fallacy and based on invented "facts".

 

[Rhamiel]

you like to use a slur to refer to Roman Catholics, you like to call us "Romanists", now you are twisting words to justify using these terms, your motivation is born out of hate and is unchristian. I ask for a little respect, "Roman Catholic" is a common term, calling us "Romanists" or "Romans" is offensive.
Also what theological works call the Roman Catholic Church "Romanist"? Is it biased?

 

[Albion]

Originally Posted by Rhamiel
we are getting off topic, the name of the Church is Roman Catholic, that is the topic of debate, I prefer to call it Catholic, but if you want to call it Roman Catholic that is great, I am just glad that it is not being called such degrading names like "the Roman religious system" or things like that




Or the fact that "Protestants" was a slur invented by the Romans to smear True Catholics, and is still used today.

Or the fact that "Lutherans" was a slur invented by the Romans for those who called themselves, "Evangelical Catholics" as a smear.

Or the fact that "Calvinists" was a slur invented by the Romans for "Reformed Catholics" as a smear.

But do we get offended, or take on a victim mentality over that? No.

One would wish Romans wouldn't either.

Well, Romans and Romanists certainly aren't words they'd use for themselves, whereas Protestant, Lutheran, and Calvinist are terms that those Christians commonly DO use for themselves. So that makes a difference.

I'd thing that there's nothing wrong with saying Roman Catholic, and that those RCs who protest it are going too far, particularly since the church uses it for itself and many priests do too.

The word Protestant originated, by the way, as a term describing those (Lutherans) who protested against the political decision in Germany (Holy Roman Empire) in 1529 to withdraw recognition of them that had earlier been agreed to, leaving the Roman Catholic church the only legal one. The protest, IOW, was not directly about religion or doctrinal matters, etc.

 

[Rhamiel]

Well, Romans and Romists certainly aren't words they'd use for themselves, whereas Protestant, Lutheran, and Calvinist are terms that those Christians commonly DO use for themselves. So that makes a difference.

the voice of reason

 

[Rick Otto]

Give me the sum of the difference & give you the common denominator.

 

[TraderJack]

Well, Romans and Romanists certainly aren't words they'd use for themselves

Actually, "Romans" is a term that has been used by Rome for centuries. I've already demonstrated that from Rome's own documents.

, whereas Protestant, Lutheran, and Calvinist are terms that those Christians commonly DO use for themselves. So that makes a difference.

We do, and do so proudly. However the argument put forth by Romans is that "Romans" and "Romanists" were slurs invented by Protestants, so they object based on a historical argument.

Following that same line of logic, then the same ethic should also apply to using the terms, "Lutherans", "Calvinists" and "Protestants" since those were in fact slurs invented by the Romans as smears.

Several times a number of us have offered that they drop those historical slurs and refer to us as "Christians", but every time they decline.

It's not a one way street.

 

[TraderJack]

you like to use a slur to refer to Roman Catholics, you like to call us "Romanists"

Really? Show me. Produce the quotes.

now you are twisting words to justify using these terms, your motivation is born out of hate and is unchristian.

So glad to see that you have the ability to peer into my heart.

And here all this time I was under the impression that only God can do that.

I ask for a little respect

And WE have asked numerous times that YOU drop the slur "Protestants" and refer to us as "Christians", which has been refused everytime.

Now what was that you were saying about "respect"?

 

[lionroar0]

Actually, "Romans" is a term that has been used by Rome for centuries. I've already demonstrated that from Rome's own documents.

What you have provesn is that it was used. Not that it's in use.

We do, and do so proudly. However the argument put forth by Romans is that "Romans" and "Romanists" were slurs invented by Protestants, so they object based on a historical argument.

Following that same line of logic, then the same ethic should also apply to using the terms, "Lutherans", "Calvinists" and "Protestants" since those were in fact slurs invented by the Romans as smears.

Several times a number of us have offered that they drop those historical slurs and refer to us as "Christians", but every time they decline.

And what do you expect when you asked with out respect and started off by calling us romanist?

If you want to be called christian then give some respect. You may just get some back in return.

I would be willing to call you Reformed Christian. If you would be willing to meet me half way and drop the Roman for Catholic Christian.

Peace