There must be a twisting of Scripture to deceive God's people.

[maco]

Please deal with the real issues here: Christians began worshiping on Sunday right from the Resurrection and the Council of Jerusalem eliminated any requirement that the Gentile Christians would keep the Mosaic Law. You cannot dispute that, nor can you dispute what Colossians 2:14-17 says.

Your beliefs are just the old, well-worn and rejected Ebionite Heresy. Christianity rejected your heresy early on. Give Christianity a chance, you won't believe the difference. It doesn't have the Mark of the Beast like your dishonest prophet Ellen White Claimed. Many Seventh Day Adventists are escaping the darkness of SDA and walking into the light of Christianity for the first time. Forty-Seven Prominent Texts Used by Seventh-Day Adventists Examined | Earnestly contending for the Faith

Your avoidance of the facts is the only way you can believe what you believe.

 

[LarryP2]

What I am honest about is that neither you nor I keep the Sabbath. I am honest enough to say that true Christianity Never required Sabbath Keeping, and so I don't even try to keep it. Us Christians worship on Sunday because that is Resurrection Day. Always have right from Resurrection Day, and always will.

Like I said before, you THINK, (i.e. "pretend") you keep Sabbath, but in reality you don't. Sadly, you cannot even comprehend that you violate the Sabbath thousands of times every Sabbath day. You want everyone to THINK you keep the Sabbath, but I am not fooled. You can go ahead and continue kidding yourself all you want, but every time you hit a light switch, drive a car, open a door, get food out of the refrigerator and just about ten million other things that I have personally seen Sabbatarian Ebionites do, you are breaking the Sabbath. Non-Jewish Gentiles violate the Sabbath just by TRYING to keep it! Gentiles are completely BANNED from Sabbath keeping, with the Death Penalty as an enforcement mechanism. Every time you start your car on Saturday and drive to church, you have violated the Sabbath 100's of thousands of times. Each time your car ignites gasoline during the combustion cycle, it is a separate violation of the Sabbath. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Driving_on_Shabbat_in_Jewish_law I bet you violated the Sabbath at least 50 or 60 times by using electricity last Saturday: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_on_Shabbat If you wash dishes with hot water or use makeup or use toilet paper, you have violated the Sabbath: http://www.aish.com/sh/ht/bs/48971511.html

You THINK your bland, Americanized, pasteurized-processed Velveeta Cheez Whiz version of Saturday worship equals the Sabbath described in the Bible. It doesn't. It only makes you look ridiculous to someone that has closely studied how the Real Sabbath works and knows what it takes to keep it. Your definition of the Sabbath is not even CLOSE to what the Sabbath means in the Bible. Your Saturday activities bear no more resemblance to the Biblical Sabbath than Doritos do to Mexican food. You are only kidding yourself. You don't deceive me for one second. I've been down that dark cult road of Salvation by works cult bondage, and real Christianity is night and day different.

Nobody else should be fooled by you either. You don't keep the Sabbath now, now have you ever before.

 

[Sophrosyne]

Says you! Both marriage and the seventh day were instituted at creation for all mankind and this was before sin, Law or Jew. Remember, even Jesus said the Sabbath was made for mankind. Those who don't care about the things of God neither marry or honor the seventh day.

I see nothing in the Bible in thousands of posts that demands Christians must keep the Sabbath command. I see no examples of Christians being told to keep the Sabbath, I see nothing of Jesus, the Apostles, OR Paul saying the Sabbath was to be kept by Christians. All I see is a twisting of scripture on your behalf to deceive God's people here.

 

[maco]

Us Christians worship on Sunday because that is Resurrection Day.

Chapter and verse?

 

[LarryP2]

"Chapter and verse?"

Colossians 2:14-17 specifically commands Christians to NOT keep the Sabbath. Here it is, since I have asked you to read it and comment on it several times:

"14 having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. 15 When He had [a]disarmed the rulers and authorities, He made a public display of them, having triumphed over them through Him.

16 Therefore no one is to [c]act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath [d]day— 17 things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the [e]substance [f]belongs to Christ." (New American Standard Bible)


"I see nothing in the Bible in thousands of posts that demands Christians must keep the Sabbath command. I see no examples of Christians being told to keep the Sabbath, I see nothing of Jesus, the Apostles, OR Paul saying the Sabbath was to be kept by Christians. All I see is a twisting of scripture on your behalf to deceive God's people here."

There is nothing that requires Christians to keep the Sabbath. What maco is trying to do is revive the old Ebionite cult that was denounced by the Apostles as heresy. SSDD. Nothing he says has anything to do with Christianity. He has no idea of what Christianity means, nor does he have any idea of how to keep the Sabbath. His Ebionite cult is neither Christianity nor Judaism. If he were honest, he would refrain from bringing his Ebionite heresy onto a Christian website.

 

[maco]

"Chapter and verse?"

Colossians 2:14-17 specifically commands Christians to NOT keep the Sabbath. Here it is, since I have asked you to read it and comment on it several times:

"14 having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. 15 When He had [a]disarmed the rulers and authorities, He made a public display of them, having triumphed over them through Him.

16 Therefore no one is to [c]act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath [d]day— 17 things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the [e]substance [f]belongs to Christ." (New American Standard Bible)


"I see nothing in the Bible in thousands of posts that demands Christians must keep the Sabbath command. I see no examples of Christians being told to keep the Sabbath, I see nothing of Jesus, the Apostles, OR Paul saying the Sabbath was to be kept by Christians. All I see is a twisting of scripture on your behalf to deceive God's people here."

There is nothing that requires Christians to keep the Sabbath. What maco is trying to do is revive the old Ebionite cult that was denounced by the Apostles as heresy. SSDD. Nothing he says has anything to do with Christianity. He has no idea of what Christianity means, nor does he have any idea of how to keep the Sabbath. His Ebionite cult is neither Christianity nor Judaism. If he were honest, he would refrain from bringing his Ebionite heresy onto a Christian website.

So you don't have a verse that says Christians honor Sunday in light of Jesus' resurrection?

 

[LarryP2]

Let me try to make this simple so you can understand.....

Christians have NEVER viewed Sunday the way Jews view the Sabbath. There is no equivalence, no comparison. The point of Christianity is its freedom in Christ. Some worship on Sunday. Some (Eastern Orthodox) worship EVERY day. The point being, let every man choose for themselves. EVERYDAY is "Sabbath" for Christians. On the other hand, the Resurrection occurred on Sunday and so did the Day of Pentecost. Plainly all of the Apostles and early Christians were meeting together on that Sunday when they received the Holy Spirit. They were together in one place to "Break the Bread." By Pentecost, it had obviously already became the "Lord's Day." It was a custom, not one of 613 Commandments. There is no text "commanding" Christians to observe Sunday, because Christians have NO commandments, other than the two Great Commandments of Christ: Love God with all your heart and your neighbor as yourself. Everything else they get to choose.

Nobody is more ludicrous than Seventh Day Adventism's Ellen G. White, who imagines that Sunday keeping Christians will one day murder Sabbath Keepers for not worshiping on Sundays. She obviously does not have the slightest idea of how Christians view Sunday. They could care less what day somebody else goes to Church.

Christians do not treat Sunday like the Jews treat Sabbath, because Christians are not Jews. It is an entirely different religion. That's where poor deluded Ebionites are so confused. They THINK Christians treat Sunday the way Jews and Ebionites treat the Sabbath.

They don't.

 

[SilverBlade]

What I am honest about is that neither you nor I keep the Sabbath. I am honest enough to say that true Christianity Never required Sabbath Keeping, and so I don't even try to keep it. Us Christians worship on Sunday because that is Resurrection Day. Always have right from Resurrection Day, and always will.

Like I said before, you THINK, (i.e. "pretend") you keep Sabbath, but in reality you don't. Sadly, you cannot even comprehend that you violate the Sabbath thousands of times every Sabbath day. You want everyone to THINK you keep the Sabbath, but I am not fooled. You can go ahead and continue kidding yourself all you want, but every time you hit a light switch, drive a car, open a door, get food out of the refrigerator and just about ten million other things that I have personally seen Sabbatarian Ebionites do, you are breaking the Sabbath. Non-Jewish Gentiles violate the Sabbath just by TRYING to keep it! Gentiles are completely BANNED from Sabbath keeping, with the Death Penalty as an enforcement mechanism. Every time you start your car on Saturday and drive to church, you have violated the Sabbath 100's of thousands of times. Each time your car ignites gasoline during the combustion cycle, it is a separate violation of the Sabbath. Driving on Shabbat in Jewish law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia I bet you violated the Sabbath at least 50 or 60 times by using electricity last Saturday: Electricity on Shabbat in Jewish law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia If you wash dishes with hot water or use makeup or use toilet paper, you have violated the Sabbath: Shabbat Checklist and Basic Laws

You THINK your bland, Americanized, pasteurized-processed Velveeta Cheez Whiz version of Saturday worship equals the Sabbath described in the Bible. It doesn't. It only makes you look ridiculous to someone that has closely studied how the Real Sabbath works and knows what it takes to keep it. Your definition of the Sabbath is not even CLOSE to what the Sabbath means in the Bible. Your Saturday activities bear no more resemblance to the Biblical Sabbath than Doritos do to Mexican food. You are only kidding yourself. You don't deceive me for one second. I've been down that dark cult road of Salvation by works cult bondage, and real Christianity is night and day different.

Nobody else should be fooled by you either. You don't keep the Sabbath now, now have you ever before.

Excellent post.

I actually calculated (roughly) how many times someone violates the Sabbath just by getting ready, going to church and coming home. Adding into the combustion cycle of cars, anyone who drives to church averages above 60,000 violations..that is only a 10 minute trip each way. A 30 minute trip *one way* is 90,000 violations.

 

[SilverBlade]

Says you! Both marriage and the seventh day were instituted at creation for all mankind and this was before sin, Law or Jew. Remember, even Jesus said the Sabbath was made for mankind. Those who don't care about the things of God neither marry or honor the seventh day.

The Sabbath was never instituted at creation. All it says is: "God rested". period. He didn't tell ANYONE else to rest. It simply isn't there.

It also says in Genesis that Adam worked every day of his life. Every day. Not 'every day except the 6th day'...Every day.

No where do you see anything about the Sabbath until Exodus.

Think about this: If The Sabbath was made during creation, then every single Jewish person who was a slave in Egypt was breaking God's law. And demanding not to work on a special day..as a slave..would have you killed.

Again, The Sabbath never was made during creation. Period.

 

[maco]

The Sabbath was never instituted at creation. All it says is: "God rested". period. He didn't tell ANYONE else to rest. It simply isn't there.

It also says in Genesis that Adam worked every day of his life. Every day. Not 'every day except the 6th day'...Every day.

No where do you see anything about the Sabbath until Exodus.

Think about this: If The Sabbath was made during creation, then every single Jewish person who was a slave in Egypt was breaking God's law. And demanding not to work on a special day..as a slave..would have you killed.

Again, The Sabbath never was made during creation. Period.

The seventh day was instituted as part of creation. It was blessed, sanctified and called holy as part of creation itself. It was God's day of rest because He finished all that He created the past six days. The fourth commandment says remember the Sabbath, it doesn't say remember the seventh day. It's called the Sabbath because God rested. The fourth commandment instituted the rest for all mankind in honor of what the day represents. Today, as a born again Christian, we are to live by the teachings of Jesus. The teachings of Jesus DID NOT do away with the seventh day, but rather, He taught us how to honor it in light of the higher good. It's still called the Sabbath but without its strict adherence. The teachings of Jesus does away with the ritualistic keeping of the seventh day. We now have freedom on the Sabbath not freedom from the Sabbath. The seventh day was still called the Sabbath by the New Testament church even years after Jesus.

By the way, God's people did try to take a day off to worship God but Pharaoh wouldn't let them.

Exodus 5:1-8 Afterward Moses and Aaron went in and told Pharaoh, “Thus says the Lord God of Israel: ‘Let My people go, that they may hold a feast to Me in the wilderness.’” And Pharaoh said, “Who is the Lord, that I should obey His voice to let Israel go? I do not know the Lord, nor will I let Israel go.” So they said, “The God of the Hebrews has met with us. Please, let us go three days’ journey into the desert and sacrifice to the Lord our God, lest He fall upon us with pestilence or with the sword.” Then the king of Egypt said to them, “Moses and Aaron, why do you take the people from their work? Get back to your labor.” And Pharaoh said, “Look, the people of the land are many now, and you make them rest from their labor!” So the same day Pharaoh commanded the taskmasters of the people and their officers, saying, “You shall no longer give the people straw to make brick as before. Let them go and gather straw for themselves. And you shall lay on them the quota of bricks which they made before. You shall not reduce it. For they are idle; therefore they cry out, saying, ‘Let us go and sacrifice to our God.’

 

[SilverBlade]

The seventh day was instituted as part of creation. It was blessed, sanctified and called holy as part of creation itself. It was God's day of rest because He finished all that He created the past six days. The fourth commandment says remember the Sabbath, it doesn't say remember the seventh day. It's called the Sabbath because God rested. The fourth commandment instituted the rest for all mankind in honor of what the day represents. Today, as a born again Christian, we are to live by the teachings of Jesus. The teachings of Jesus DID NOT do away with the seventh day, but rather, He taught us how to honor it in light of the higher good. It's still called the Sabbath but without its strict adherence. The teachings of Jesus does away with the ritualistic keeping of the seventh day. We now have freedom on the Sabbath not freedom from the Sabbath. The seventh day was still called the Sabbath by the New Testament church even years after Jesus.

By the way, God's people did try to take a day off to worship God but Pharaoh wouldn't let them.

*clap clap* completely missed the part where Jewish slaves were forced to work on that day, thereby breaking God's law. And missed the part where Adam was working the land every day. And missed the part where there's zero evidence on anyone knowing what a Sabbath was until Exodus. Good Job ignoring key parts.

 

[maco]

*clap clap* completely missed the part where Jewish slaves were forced to work on that day, thereby breaking God's law. And missed the part where Adam was working the land every day. And missed the part where there's zero evidence on anyone knowing what a Sabbath was until Exodus. Good Job ignoring key parts.

Remember, the Law was added because of transgression. Transgression means they were not doing something that they should have been doing. That means they should have been honoring the seventh day but they weren't so God put it in His Law so that there would be no excuse for mankind.

 

[LarryP2]

People have been misinterpreting Genesis for the proposition that Sabbath is a Creation ordinance. It is not. Hebrew Scholars are adamant that the writer of Genesis very carefully wrote so that in no way would create a Sabbath requirement. NOBODY kept the Sabbath prior to Sinai.

You statement that the Sabbath was given to the whole world at Sinai is laughable. No such thing happened. It plainly states that it was given only to the Israelites. NOBODY but the Israelites EVER kept the Sabbath. It is THEIR day, nobody elses.

 

[maco]

People have been misinterpreting Genesis for the proposition that Sabbath is a Creation ordinance. It is not. Hebrew Scholars are adamant that the writer of Genesis very carefully wrote so that in no way would create a Sabbath requirement. NOBODY kept the Sabbath prior to Sinai.

You statement that the Sabbath was given to the whole world at Sinai is laughable. No such thing happened. It plainly states that it was given only to the Israelites. NOBODY but the Israelites EVER kept the Sabbath. It is THEIR day, nobody elses.

Did people worship one God because God was one prior to Sinai? Thus the need for the first commandment. Did people honor the seventh day because it's holy, blessed and sanctified prior to Sinai? Thus the need for the fourth commandment. Remember, the Law was added because of transgression.

 

[maco]

Sophrosyne, SilverBlade, LarryP2

With the hundreds of verses that say the seventh day is the Lord's day I am still waiting for your one verse that tells us to honor the first day because of Jesus' resurrection. Just one verse is all I ask. We are to be people of the Bible aren't we?

 

[LarryP2]

Red Herring. There is no Sunday keeping requirement. Never has been never will be. Christians do not have those kind of requirements.

Only the Judaizing Ebionite Cultists have a day worship requirement, which laughably they also do not keep, nor can they.

 

[maco]

Red Herring. There is no Sunday keeping requirement. Never has been never will be. Christians do not have those kind of requirements.

Only the Judaizing Ebionite Cultists have a day worship requirement, which laughably they also do not keep, nor can they.

Still no verse? I'm a biblical Christian so I can show you from the Bible why I believe and do what I do. How about you? I'm still waiting. Just one verse that gives us authority to change God's will for His creation. Show me where we are to honor Sunday because of Jesus' resurrection? Just one verse is all I ask.

 

[LarryP2]

You can show from the Bible why you keep the Sabbath, and that is fine because you are an Ebionite Cultist. Christians have other requirements.

Christians have no requirement to keep the Sabbath. Most Christians are non-Jewish Gentiles, so Sabbath Keeping is prohibited even if they wanted to keep it. Judaism can impose the Death Sentence for Gentiles who try to keep the Sabbath.

So its a good thing that you actually DON"T keep the Sabbath, even though you claim you do! Dishonest Ebiolnite Cultists like yourself try to get people all riled up over a non-Christian issue, but in the final analysis, you simply do not practice what you preach. Ebionite Cultists pretend they keep the Sabbath, but everybody knows they are just being foolish. Christians do not keep the Sabbath or any other day, including Sunday, because none of that is not required of Christians.

And you ignore Colossians 2:14-17 and the Decree from the AD 50 Apostles Council of Jerusalem. Which is fine, since you are an Ebionite Cultist and not a Christian. In the same way you refuse to read Colossians 2:14-17, eventually you will have to abandon ALL of the Epistles of St. Paul to keep your Ebionite Cult Heresy going. Many different religions use the Bible in their own way. Muslims use it, Christians use it, Jews use it, and various destructive cults like Ebionites (like yourself) use it.

Just because your Cult requires that you pretend to keep the Sabbath does not mean it is a requirement for Christians. Nor does it mean that we have to take your fantasy that you keep the Sabbath at face value.

 

[maco]

There is no Sunday keeping requirement. Never has been never will be.

So the Bible gives you no authority for gathering on Sunday because Jesus was resurrected on Sunday? Well now, it seems we have a problem here. Since your beliefs are not Scriptural you must be following man made tradition.

"Sunday is founded, not of scripture, but on tradition, and is distinctly a Catholic institution. As there is no scripture for the transfer of the day of rest from the last to the first day of the week, Protestants ought to keep their Sabbath on Saturday and thus leave Catholics in full possession of Sunday." Catholic Record, September 17, 1893.

And what did Jesus say about making void a commandment of God for man made traditions? He said your worship was worthless. Hmmm! Very interesting. [FONT=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]Now who is the real cult here?

[/FONT]

[FONT=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]Question - Which is the Sabbath day?[/FONT]
Answer - Saturday is the Sabbath day.
Question - Why do we observe Sunday instead of Saturday?

Answer - We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church, in the Council of Laodicea (A.D. 364), transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday. The Convert's Catechism of Catholic Doctrine, p. 50, 3rd ed.
​

Christians shall not Judaize and be idle on Saturday (Sabbath), but shall work on that Day: but the Lord's Day, they shall especially honour; and as being Christians, shall, if possible, do no work on that day. If however, they are found Judaizing, they shall be shut out from Christ. Council of Laodicea (circa 364 AD)

"The Bible says, Remember that thou keep holy the Sabbath day. The Catholic church says, No! By my divine power I abolish the Sabbath day, and command you to keep the first day of the week. And lo, the entire civilized world bows down in reverent obedience to the command of the holy Catholic church!" Father Enright, C.S.S.R. of the Redemptoral College, Kansas City, Mo., History of the Sabbath, p. 802

"Sunday is our mark of authority...The church is above the Bible, and this transference of sabbath observance is proof of that fact." The Catholic Record, London, Ontario, September 1, 1923.[FONT=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]
[/FONT]

 

[LarryP2]

Christians don't need authority. Christians are not bound by the Old Testament law, that was decided by the Apostles in AD 50. They can gather any day they choose. They are not required to worship a day, like non-Christian Ebionite Cultists like yourself. Christians worship the resurrected Christ.

Non-Christian cults worship a day.