There is no Hell!

[Ben12]

I was just a few weeks a go (CU) were banned from this FORUM; why because God’s Word is so weak religious men have to control it? For years the eternalhellist have shut their religious doors just like the JW this included their Universities. Not allowed any thing that did not fit your old wine skin in; but just like the US, it is a free country and God’s Word should be express freely.

Ignorance and bias are much more of a tool of the enemy then someone expressing what God has shown them. This forum has opened its doors of that expression. I have the right to seek, ask and knock; I have the right to dig deeply into the most awesome book that was ever written. I will never put in my little religious box and believe that is all it is.

Religion​

I prefer the Webster definition: Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English religioun, from Anglo-French religiun, Latin religion-, religio supernatural constraint, sanction, religious practice, perhaps from religare to restrain, tie back in other words Taboo.
3 archaic : scrupulous conformity : CONSCIENTIOUSNESS


Religious From James 1:26 NT:2357 threskos (thrace'-kos); probably from the base of NT:2360; ceremonious in worship (as demonstrative), i.e. pious:

NT:2360 throeo (thro-eh'-o); from threomai (to wail); to clamor, i.e. (by implication) to frighten:


(Message) 26-27Anyone who sets himself up as "religious" by talking a good game is self-deceived. This kind of religion is hot air and only hot air. Real religion, the kind that passes muster before God the Father, is this: Reach out to the homeless and loveless in their plight, and guard against corruption from the godless world.
(AMP) 26If anyone thinks himself to be religious (piously observant of the external duties of his faith) and does not bridle his tongue but deludes his own heart, this person's religious service is worthless (futile, barren).

"MANIFOLD GRACE for manifold trials"​

Peter writes that "for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through MANIFOLD temptations (trials)." (1 Peter 1:6). And then he also writes of our being "good stewards of the MANIFOLD grace of God." (1 Peter 4:10).
Two things-- MANIFOLD TRIALS set over against, or requiring MANIFOLD GRACE.


Manifold-- the Greek word used here is "poikilos " and means: numerous and, varied, divers; many-fold. It bespeaks of that which is of every hue and color, size, quantity, with the emphasis being on diversity more than just on numbers. Thus Wuest translates the two points as: "many different kinds of testings," and "the variegated grace of God."
Though only translated twice as "manifold" it is used eight times in the Scripture as "divers." It is a marvellous thing to contemplate-- that no matter how diverse the temptations and trials that may befall us, no matter how variegated and multiplied, yet GRACE faces every test with superabounding sufficiency, and ultimately secures the victory. As goes the chorus:
"His grace is sufficient for all my need,
His grace is sufficient for all my need,
No matter how great, no matter how small,
His grace is sufficient for them all."
While the context of the verse (1 Peter 4:10), is dealing with our service, yet we would lend our emphasis to the GRACE FACTOR more than our being His stewards of that grace. The wonderful truth is that His GRACE IS MANIFOLD! Phillips reads: "Serve one another with the particular gifts God has given each of you, as faithful dispensers of the magnificently varied grace of God." The very diversity of ministries, and the operation of God's gifts through each of us, reveals again how varied are the graces of our God. HIS GRACE can flow through each of us, adapted to our need, corresponding to the work of God in us-- and yet becoming the exact confirmation which helps another as we share these workings of grace within. Yet so varied and glorious is HIS GRACE that it takes the WHOLE BODY to express even in a small measure some of its wonders. And then "In the ages to come He will shew the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us through Christ Jesus." (Eph. 2:7).

 

[RefrusRevlis]

Aion means "age. But the word aeonios does not mean the opposite of its noun origin. As hourly means, "pertaining to the hour," so aeonios means "pertaining to the age."

I have a similar kind of reasoning before, namely aion means age and therefore aionios means "agelong", but not eternal. The aforementioned reasoning is misleading, unless you understand "agelong" in respect to the future punishment of the wicked, to be equivalent with "eternal". The duration of the punishment of the wicked is commensurate with the reward of the righteous. In other words, the future age is an eternal one. Any number of Lexicographers will show the meaning of aionios (when it is used in a future sense) to be eternal, perpetual, belonging to the aion, age etc.

Refrus

 

[Zecryphon]

"We have already debated this verse and all the verses reference to Gehenna. Who is this verse addressing; do you see heathen, sinner; the only one I can find this verse is addressing is “brother”. "

I think we need to understand all the different ways the word "brother" is used in the Bible. See below:

Brother
bruth´ẽr (אח, 'āḥ; ἀδελφός, adelphós = kin by birth, from the same parents or parent): Used extensively in both Old Testament and New Testament of other relations and relationships, and expanding under Christ's teaching to include the universal brotherhood of man. Chiefly employed in the natural sense, as of Cain and Abel (Gen_4:8); of Joseph and his brethren (Gen_42:3); of Peter and Andrew, of James and John (Mat_10:2). Of other relationships: (1) Abram's nephew, Lot, is termed "brother" (Gen_14:14); (2) Moses' fellow-countrymen are "brethren" (Exo_2:11; Act_3:22; compare Heb_7:5); (3) a member of the same tribe (2Sa_19:12); (4) an ally (Amo_1:9), or an allied or cognate people (Num_20:14); (5) used of common discipleship or the kinship of humanity (Mat_23:8); (6) of moral likeness or kinship (Pro_18:9); (7) of friends (Job_6:15); (8) an equal in rank or office (1Ki_9:13); (9) one of the same faith (Act_11:29; 1Co_5:11); (10) a favorite oriental metaphor used to express likeness or similarity (Job_30:29, "I am a brother to jackals"); (11) a fellow-priest or office-bearer (Ezr_3:2); Paul called Sosthenes "brother" (1Co_1:1) and Timothy his spiritual son and associate (2Co_1:1); (12) a brother-man, any member of the human family (Mat_7:3-5; Heb_2:17; Heb_8:11; 1Jo_2:9; 1Jo_4:20); (13) signifies spiritual kinship (Mat_12:50); (14) a term adopted by the early disciples and Christians to express their fraternal love for each other in Christ, and universally adopted as the language of love and brotherhood in His kingdom in all subsequent time (2Pe_3:15; Col_4:7, Col_4:9, Col_4:15). The growing conception of mankind as a brotherhood is the outcome of this Christian view of believers as a household, a family (Eph_2:19; Eph_3:15; compare Act_17:26). Jesus has made "neighbor" equivalent to "brother," and the sense of fraternal affection and obligation essential to vital Christianity, and coextensive with the world. The rabbis distinguished between "brother" and "neighbor," applying "brother" to Israelites by blood, "neighbor" to proselytes, but allowing neither title to the Gentiles. Christ and the apostles gave the name "brother" to all Christians, and "neighbor" to all the world (1Co_5:11; Luk_10:29). The missionary passion and aggressiveness of the Christian church is the natural product of this Christian conception of man's true relation to man.

 

[Zecryphon]

For further enlightenment, this is from Matthew Henry's Concise Bible Commentary:

1. Christ tells them that rash anger is heart-murder (Mat_5:22); Whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause, breaks the sixth commandment. By our brother here, we are to understand any person, though ever so much our inferior, as a child, a servant, for we are all made of one blood. Anger is a natural passion; there are cases in which it is lawful and laudable; but it is then sinful, when we are angry without cause. The word is eikē, which signifies, sine causâ, sine effectu, et sine modo - without cause, without any good effect, without moderation; so that the anger is then sinful, (1.) When it is without any just provocation given; either for no cause, or no good cause, or no great and proportionable cause; when we are angry at children or servants for that which could not be helped, which was only a piece of forgetfulness or mistake, that we ourselves might easily have been guilty of, and for which we should not have been angry at ourselves; when we are angry upon groundless surmises, or for trivial affronts not worth speaking of.

(2.) When it is without any good end aimed at, merely to show our authority, to gratify a brutish passion, to let people know our resentments, and excite ourselves to revenge, then it is in vain, it is to do hurt; whereas if we are at any time angry, it should be to awaken the offender to repentance, and prevent his doing so again; to clear ourselves (2Co_7:11), and to give warning to others.

(3.) When it exceeds due bounds; when we are hardy and headstrong in our anger, violent and vehement, outrageous and mischievous, and when we seek the hurt of those we are displeased at. This is a breach of the sixth commandment, for he that is thus angry, would kill if he could and durst; he has taken the first step toward it; Cain's killing his brother began in anger; he is a murderer in the account of God, who knows his heart, whence murder proceeds, Mat_15:19.

2. He tells them, that given opprobrious language to our brother is tongue-murder, calling him, Raca, and, Thou fool. When this is done with mildness and for a good end, to convince others of their vanity and folly, it is not sinful. Thus James says, O vain man; and Paul, Thou fool; and Christ himself, O fools, and slow of heart. But when it proceeds from anger and malice within, it is the smoke of that fire which is kindled from hell, and falls under the same character.

(1.) Raca is a scornful word, and comes from pride, "Thou empty fellow;" it is the language of that which Solomon calls proud wrath (Pro_21:24), which tramples upon our brother - disdains to set him even with the dogs of our flock. This people who knoweth not the law, is cursed, is such language, Joh_7:49.

(2.) Thou fool, is a spiteful word, and comes from hatred; looking upon him, not only as mean and not to be honoured, but as vile and not to be loved; "Thou wicked man, thou reprobate." The former speaks a man without sense, this (in scripture language) speaks a man without grace; the more the reproach touches his spiritual condition, the worse it is; the former is a haughty taunting of our brother, this is a malicious censuring and condemning of him, as abandoned of God. Now this is a breach of the sixth commandment; malicious slanders and censures are poison under the tongue, that kills secretly and slowly; bitter words are as arrows that would suddenly (Psa_64:3), or as a sword in the bones. The good name of our neighbour, which is better than life, is thereby stabbed and murdered; and it is an evidence of such an ill-will to our neighbour as would strike at his life, if it were in our power.

3. He tells them, that how light soever they made of these sins, they would certainly be reckoned for; he that is angry with is brother shall be in danger of the judgment and anger of God; he that calls him Raca, shall be in danger of the council, of being punished by the Sanhedrim for reviling an Israelite; but whosoever saith, Thou fool, thou profane person, thou child of hell, shall be in danger of hell-fire, to which he condemns his brother; so the learned Dr. Whitby. Some think, in allusion to the penalties used in the several courts of judgment among the Jews, Christ shows that the sin of rash anger exposes men to lower or higher punishments, according to the degrees of its proceeding. The Jews had three capital punishments, each worse than the other; beheading, which was inflicted by the judgment; stoning, by the council or chief Sanhedrim; and burning in the valley of the son of Hinnom, which was used only in extraordinary cases: it signifies, therefore, that rash anger and reproachful language are damning sins; but some are more sinful than others, and accordingly there is a greater damnation, and a sorer punishment reserved for them: Christ would thus show which sin was most sinful, by showing which it was the punishment whereof was most dreadful.

IV. From all this it is here inferred, that we ought carefully to preserve Christian love and peace with our brethren, and that if at any time a breach happens, we should labour for a reconciliation, by confessing our fault, humbling ourselves to our brother, begging his pardon, and making restitution, or offering satisfaction for wrong done in word or deed, according as the nature of the thing is; and that we should do this quickly for two reasons:

1. Because, till this be done, we are utterly unfit for communion with God in holy ordinances, Mat_5:23, Mat_5:24. The case supposed is, "That thy brother have somewhat against thee," that thou has injured and offended him, either really or in his apprehension; if thou are the party offended, there needs not this delay; if thou have aught against thy brother, make short work of it; no more is to be done but to forgive him (Mar_11:25), and forgive the injury; but if the quarrel began on thy side, and the fault was either at first or afterwards thine, so that thy brother has a controversy with thee, go and be reconciled to him before thou offer thy gift at the altar, before thou approach solemnly to God in the gospel-services of prayer and praise, hearing the word or the sacraments. Note, (1.) When we are addressing ourselves to any religious exercises, it is good for us to take that occasion of serious reflection and self-examination: there are many things to be remembered, when we bring our gift to the altar, and this among the rest, whether our brother hath aught against us; then, if ever, we are disposed to be serious, and therefore should then call ourselves to an account.

(2.) Religious exercises are not acceptable to God, if they are performed when we are in wrath; envy, malice, and uncharitableness, are sins so displeasing to God, that nothing pleases him which comes from a heart wherein they are predominant, 1Ti_2:8. Prayers made in wrath are written in gall, Isa_1:15; Isa_58:4.

(3.) Love or charity is so much better than all burnt-offerings and sacrifice, that God will have reconciliation made with an offended brother before the gift be offered; he is content to stay for the gift, rather than have it offered while we are under guilt and engaged in a quarrel.

(4.) Though we are unfitted for communion with God, by a continual quarrel with a brother, yet that can be no excuse for the omission or neglect of our duty: "Leave there thy gift before the altar, lest otherwise, when thou has gone away, thou be tempted not to come again." Many give this as a reason why they do not come to church or to the communion, because they are at variance with some neighbour; and whose fault is that? One sin will never excuse another, but will rather double the guilt. Want of charity cannot justify the want of piety. The difficulty is easily got over; those who have wronged us, we must forgive; and those whom we have wronged, we must make satisfaction to, or at least make a tender of it, and desire a renewal of the friendship, so that if reconciliation be not made, it may not be our fault; and then come, come and welcome, come and offer thy gift, and it shall be accepted. Therefore we must not let the sun go down upon our wrath any day, because we must go to prayer before we go to sleep; much less let the sun rise upon our wrath on a sabbath-day, because it is a day of prayer.

2. Because, till this be done, we lie exposed to much danger, Mat_5:25, Mat_5:26. It is at our peril if we do not labour after an agreement, and that quickly, upon two accounts:
(1.) Upon a temporal account. If the offence we have done to our brother, in his body, goods, or reputation, be such as will bear action, in which he may recover considerable damages, it is our wisdom, and it is our duty to our family, to prevent that by a humble submission and a just and peaceable satisfaction; lest otherwise he recover it by law, and put us to the extremity of a prison. In such a case it is better to compound and make the best terms we can, than to stand it out; for it is in vain to contend with the law, and there is danger of our being crushed by it. Many ruin their estates by an obstinate persisting in the offences they have given, which would soon have been pacified by a little yielding at first. Solomon's advice in case of suretyship is, Go, humble thyself, and so secure and deliver thyself, Pro_6:1-5. It is good to agree, for the law is costly. Though we must be merciful to those we have advantage against, yet we must be just to those that have advantage against us, as far as we are able. "Agree, and compound with thine adversary quickly, lest he be exasperated by thy stubbornness, and provoked to insist upon the utmost demand, and will not make thee the abatement which at first he would have made." A prison is an uncomfortable place to those who are brought to it by their own pride and prodigality, their own wilfulness and folly.

 

[Zecryphon]

Continued from previous post:

(2.) Upon a spiritual account. "Go, and be reconciled to thy brother, be just to him, be friendly with him, because while the quarrel continues, as thou art unfit to bring thy gift to the altar, unfit to come to the table of the Lord, so thou art unfit to die: if thou persist in this sin, there is danger lest thou be suddenly snatched away by the wrath of God, whose judgment thou canst not escape nor except against; and if that iniquity be laid to thy charge, thou art undone for ever." Hell is a prison for all that live and die in malice and uncharitableness, for all that are contentious (Rom_2:8), and out of that prison there is no rescue, no redemption, no escape, to eternity.
This is very applicable to the great business of our reconciliation to God through Christ; Agree with him quickly, whilst thou art in the way. Note, [1.] The great God is an Adversary to all sinners, antidikos - a law-adversary; he has a controversy with them, an action against them. [2.] It is our concern to agree with him, to acquaint ourselves with him, that we may be at peace, Job_22:21; 2Co_5:20. [3.] It is our wisdom to do this quickly, while we are in the way. While we are alive, we are in the way; after death, it will be too late to do it; therefore give not sleep to thine eyes till it be done. [4.] They who continue in a state of enmity to God, are continually exposed to the arrests of his justice, and the most dreadful instances of his wrath. Christ is the Judge, to whom impenitent sinners will be delivered; for all judgment is committed to the Son; he that was rejected as a Saviour, cannot be escaped as a Judge, Rev_6:16, Rev_6:17. It is a fearful thing to be thus turned over to the Lord Jesus, when the Lamb shall become the Lion. Angels are the officers to whom Christ will deliver them (Mat_13:41, Mat_13:42); devils are so too, having the power of death as executioners to all unbelievers, Heb_2:14. Hell is the prison, into which those will be cast that continue in a state of enmity to God, 2Pe_2:4. [5.] Damned sinners must remain in it to eternity; they shall not depart till they have paid the uttermost farthing, and that will not be to the utmost ages of eternity: divine justice will be for ever in the satisfying, but never satisfied.

 

[RefrusRevlis]

The sentiment that God would not punish people eternally, ignores the terrible nature of sin. We all deserve eternal punishment, but through Jesus we can escape. There is no place for reasoning away eternal punishment because it doesn't fit into our preconceived ideas of how God should be.

Refrus

 

[Ben12]

For his mercy endureth for ever (Search engine: 41 results. for his mercy endureth for ever)

​

Psalm 136:25 Who giveth food to all flesh: for his mercy endureth for ever.
Psalm 136:26 O give thanks unto the God of heaven: for his mercy endureth for ever.
Jeremiah 33:11 The voice of joy, and the voice of gladness, the voice of the bridegroom, and the voice of the bride, the voice of them that shall say, Praise the LORD of hosts: for the LORD is good; for his mercy endureth for ever: and of them that shall bring the sacrifice of praise into the house of the LORD. For I will cause to return the captivity of the land, as at the first, saith the LORD.

David Declared: Psalm 139:8 If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.

I love the Greek word disobedient AND HOW OFFEN TO YOU ETERNALHELLIST DECLARE ONCE YOU DIE THAT IS; NO MORE GRACE or mercy.

Strong’s 544 apeitheo (ap-i-theh'-o); from 545; to disbelieve (wilfully and perversely): 545 apeithes (ap-i-thace');from 1 (as a negative particle) and 3982; unpersuadable, i.e. contumacious:

1 Peter 3
18 For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit, 19through whom[1] also he went and preached to the spirits in prison 20who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water,

What did Christ preach to those disobedient prisoners; Hell fire and brimstone; eternal torment; HOW ABOUT the GOOD NEWS that Christ died for all.

 

[Ben12]

The sentiment that God would not punish people eternally, ignores the terrible nature of sin. We all deserve eternal punishment, but through Jesus we can escape. There is no place for reasoning away eternal punishment because it doesn't fit into our preconceived ideas of how God should be.

Refrus

What is greater the Blood of Jesus or the sin of Adam?

 

[Ben12]

The very people who swear by the Bible never bothered to look up the word freewill in scripture. Oh sure you can find the word Freewill in the OT when it comes to the Hebrew Freewill offering; BUT that feast has nothing to do with basic salvation.

Freewill is just another doctrine send God's people to there man made hell; this is God’s will; His Word and all of God’s it will be accomplished. It is not a matter of freewill; (we are saved by grace not freewill) free will is a non scriptural word that religious men use to make men feel guilty) for the only freewill we have is to sin; God call/calls/draws/drags people which is totally contrary to the religious man made doctrine from Rome. God draws us or if you dig a little harder He drags us; there is NO FREE WILL when you are being drawn or dragged in fact it totally to the contrary.

Romans 3:11 ​

There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. ​

John 6:44​

"No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws​

(drag Greek) him, and I will raise him up at the last day​

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1670 helkuo (hel-koo'-o); drag ​

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Jeremiah 18:2​

Arise, and go down to the potter's house, and there I will cause thee to hear my words. ​

3 Then I went down to the potter's house, and, behold, he wrought a work on the wheels. ​

4 And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.​

​

Romans 9:12 It was said to her that the elder [son] should serve the younger [son]) 13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated (held in [1] relative disregard in comparison with My feeling for Jacob).) 14 What shall we conclude then? Is there injustice upon God's part? Certainly not! 15 For He says to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy and I will have compassion (pity) on whom I will have compassion.) 16 So then [God's gift] is not a question of human will and human effort, but of God's mercy. [It depends not on one's own willingness nor on his strenuous exertion as in running a race, but on God's having mercy on him.] 17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, I have raised you up for this very purpose of displaying My power in [dealing with] you, so that My name may be proclaimed the whole world over. 18 So then He has mercy on whomever He wills (chooses) and He hardens (makes stubborn and unyielding the heart of) whomever He wills. 19 You will say to me, Why then does He still find fault and blame us [for sinning]? For who can resist and withstand His will? 20 But who are you, a mere man, to criticize and contradict and Why have you made me thus? 21 Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same mass (lump) one vessel for beauty and distinction and honorable use, and another for menial or ignoble and dishonorable use?

 

[Tavita]

Don't think that Christ's sacrifice has been done away with because people don't suffer eternally. It's because of His sacrifice they are NOW saved.. by His Blood, the price paid, through the Law of Redemption, and the Year of Jubilee...

We know we have been sold into sin, through Adam, and
in regards to the Law we know that God keeps His own Law.

The Law of Redemption..

Lev 25:48 - 54 after he is sold he may be redeemed again. One of his brothers may redeem him;
either his uncle or his uncle's son may redeem him, or any that is near of kin to him of his family may redeem him. Or if he is able, he may redeem himself.
And he shall count with his buyer from the year that he was sold to him, until the year of jubilee. And the price of his sale shall be according to the number of years, according to the time of a hired servant it shall be with him.
If there are still many years, he shall give again the price of his redemption out of the silver that he was bought for, according to the years.
And if there remain but few years to the year of jubilee, then he shall count with him, and according to his years he shall give him again the price of his redemption.
As a yearly hired servant he shall be with him; he shall not rule with harshness in your sight.
And if he is not redeemed in this way, then he shall go out in the year of jubilee, he and his sons with him.

In Matthew 18:23-35. He told of a man who owed “ten thousand talents,” which today would be about $150 million. Verse 25 says that because he could not pay the debt, he and his wife and children had to be sold as bondservants in order to make payment on the debt.


Under the law, men were bondservants until their debts were paid or until the Year of Jubilee, when all debts were cancelled. Bondservants were forced by law to work for their masters, but they also had rights. A man and his family who had become bond-servants because of debt were supposed to work for their masters until the debt was paid off, then they were set free. But there was another provision. The bondservant could be redeemed by a relative.

Lev. 25:47-55 says that a relative has the right of redemption, as long as he has enough money to pay the debt of his relative. In other words, the bondservant’s master does not have a choice in the matter. The master only has the choice if the potential redeemer is a mere friend of the bondservant. If a friend came to negotiate a deal, the choice would ultimately fall to the master, not to the friend of the bondservant. Why? Because the right of redemption is given only to a relative.

In Heb. 2:11-17 it says that Jesus Christ came in “flesh and blood,” in order to qualify as a relative to all men. This gave Jesus the right of redemption for all men all the way back to Adam.

1 John 2:2, “He has covered our sins, and not for ours only, but also those of the whole world.” Jesus gave His very life for the sins of the whole world. He paid the full penalty for every sin ever committed since Adam.

Do you see that? He has already paid the price for every sin since Adam.

Did Jesus have the right of redemption? The law was on His side. The slave master of the earth had no choice in the matter.

There are many people today and throughout history who have not wanted to be redeemed by Jesus Christ. What about these people? What becomes of them? Their sins are already paid for.

In Leviticus it says they have the choice of whether to go with their redeemer, relative, or not. If they went with their redeemer they were still not free, they became bondsman to their new Master.

Rom. 6:18, “Being then made free from sin, you became the servants of righteousness.”

But what about those who refuse to accept the provision God has made for us to be redeemed? The law says in Lev. 25:54 that “even if he is not redeemed in these years, he is still to go free in the year of Jubilee, both he and his children with him.”

The old Hebrew calendar divided time into periods of seven days and seven years. A Jubilee cycle was a period of 49 years. Then ten days into the 50th year a trumpet was blown to signal the day of Jubilee. This was the day that all debts were cancelled, and every man was to return to his inheritance if he had lost it any time during the previous 49 years.

This applied only to those who had been unable to work long enough to pay off their debt. It was only for those who did not have a redeemer—or if people had not accepted the redemption of a willing relative. Maybe they didn’t trust him or know him well enough to trust his motives. Or maybe they thought his commands would be too hard. Whatever their reasons, even if they have not availed themselves of the redemption of Christ in this age, they will still go free in the year of Jubilee. There is a limit on how much judgment and discipline God gives. All the way through the Law God has never metered out eternal torture to anyone.

Many people throughout history have not known of Jesus’ redemption payment. Others have rejected His redemption because they were misinformed about Him. Others preferred to fulfill the commands of their old slave master, sin, and did not want to be set free. Whatever the reason, many people have not availed themselves of Jesus’ redemptive work.
The law says that if a man cannot pay a debt (which is incurred by sin), he is to work as a bondservant to pay the debt. If the debt is too great to be paid, he must work until the year of Jubilee sets him free.
The Bible speaks of a final day of judgment where all men will stand before the Great White Throne (Rev. 15:11-15). Here is where God will foreclose on all debts from the beginning. Jubilee. Here is where all men will be held accountable for their actions that they did in their life on earth.
The Bible speaks of this judgment in terms of “fire.” The divine law never once dispenses torture as a judgment for any sin.

God’s judgments are designed to correct men, not to destroy them. They are designed to restore the lawful order, so that whatever men have done to violate the rights of others will be righted.

Isa 26:9 With my soul I desired You in the night; yea, with my spirit within me I will seek You early; for when Your judgments are in the earth, the people of the world learn righteousness.

The law’s purpose is to obtain justice for the wronged and forgiveness for the sinner who wronged those other people. One of the main purposes of the Law was restitution.

The divine law itself is the “lake of fire.” Moses tells us in Deut. 33:2 that the law is a “fiery law” in His hand. And not once does the divine law prescribe torture for any sin.
Jesus Christ came to pay the full penalty for our sin and for the sin of the whole world. This did not mean that Jesus would have to burn in the pit of hell. Not even for a moment—much less for eternity! He paid the full penalty for sin by dying on the cross, not by burning for eternity. If never-ending torture in hell were really the penalty for sin, then Jesus would still be there! Yet we find that Jesus was only required to be dead for three days.
The duration of the judgment is limited by the law of Jubilee. The fire is meant to burn away all those things that prevent man from accepting Christ’s sacrifice for them.

Rom 14:11 For it is written, "As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to Me, and every tongue shall confess to God."


Then ALL things whether in heaven, earth or under the earth will be in subjection to Him and He will fill ALL in ALL.



Some of this was taken from the teaching of Dr Stephen Jones.

 

[JFSA]

Ben 12, why don't you face the truth that your theology differs significantly from the mainstream Christian world view, and that you are not going to convince many Christians that your theology is worthy of consideration.

You have said that truth is evolving. This may be true in the natural, however, in the spiritual the truth of God endures forever. The truths in the Word of God are unchanging, and this is of fundamental worth to the Christian, because he/she can go back to God and His Word as their Rock and their Foundation whenever the need arises.

All that I can say is that I shall pray for you, for what you are advocating here is of fundamental and eternal significance. Please make sure that you are on the right path, not on the wide and straight road.

Bless you

 

[Tavita]

Ben 12, why don't you face the truth that your theology differs significantly from the mainstream Christian world view, and that you are not going to convince many Christians that your theology is worthy of consideration.

You have said that truth is evolving. This may be true in the natural, however, in the spiritual the truth of God endures forever. The truths in the Word of God are unchanging, and this is of fundamental worth to the Christian, because he/she can go back to God and His Word as their Rock and their Foundation whenever the need arises.

All that I can say is that I shall pray for you, for what you are advocating here is of fundamental and eternal significance. Please make sure that you are on the right path, not on the wide and straight road.

Bless you

Yes, universalism is different to mainline teaching. But does that mean it can't be discussed? I don't think anyone is 'trying' to make converts, I think they're just pointing out what they believe because people have been asking.

This belief I would hardly think would be on the 'wide' path, but rather narrow, don't ya think?

 

[Ben12]

Yes, universalism is different to mainline teaching. But does that mean it can't be discussed? I don't think anyone is 'trying' to make converts, I think they're just pointing out what they believe because people have been asking.

This belief I would hardly think would be on the 'wide' path, but rather narrow, don't ya think?

Amen. The Jews always looked back to their traditions of men; they used the sciptures and were well versed. Truth is progressive; be it natural or spiritual.

2 Peter 1:12

Wherefore I will not be negligent to put you always in remembrance of these things, though ye know them, and be established in the present truth.​

​

Present truth; in other words as the truth is revealed you move with it.

The reason there are many denominations are for two main reasons; spiritual growth and being opened for truth; as well as spiritual immaturity and closing your spiritual understanding. A choice between hearing God; or hearing man and his tradition; men of God like Luther has a revelation and walked in it; but instead of being opened for more they built their denominational walls made of the hardest material on this earth.

Luke 8:10​

And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.

God’s Words is living and growing and God is pouring out His Spirit in the last days.

Isa. 28: 9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:
11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
12 To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.
13 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

 

[Ben12]

Don't think that Christ's sacrifice has been done away with because people don't suffer eternally. It's because of His sacrifice they are NOW saved.. by His Blood, the price paid, through the Law of Redemption, and the Year of Jubilee...

We know we have been sold into sin, through Adam, and
in regards to the Law we know that God keeps His own Law.

The Law of Redemption..

Lev 25:48 - 54 after he is sold he may be redeemed again. One of his brothers may redeem him;
either his uncle or his uncle's son may redeem him, or any that is near of kin to him of his family may redeem him. Or if he is able, he may redeem himself.
And he shall count with his buyer from the year that he was sold to him, until the year of jubilee. And the price of his sale shall be according to the number of years, according to the time of a hired servant it shall be with him.
If there are still many years, he shall give again the price of his redemption out of the silver that he was bought for, according to the years.
And if there remain but few years to the year of jubilee, then he shall count with him, and according to his years he shall give him again the price of his redemption.
As a yearly hired servant he shall be with him; he shall not rule with harshness in your sight.
And if he is not redeemed in this way, then he shall go out in the year of jubilee, he and his sons with him.

In Matthew 18:23-35. He told of a man who owed “ten thousand talents,” which today would be about $150 million. Verse 25 says that because he could not pay the debt, he and his wife and children had to be sold as bondservants in order to make payment on the debt.


Under the law, men were bondservants until their debts were paid or until the Year of Jubilee, when all debts were cancelled. Bondservants were forced by law to work for their masters, but they also had rights. A man and his family who had become bond-servants because of debt were supposed to work for their masters until the debt was paid off, then they were set free. But there was another provision. The bondservant could be redeemed by a relative.

Lev. 25:47-55 says that a relative has the right of redemption, as long as he has enough money to pay the debt of his relative. In other words, the bondservant’s master does not have a choice in the matter. The master only has the choice if the potential redeemer is a mere friend of the bondservant. If a friend came to negotiate a deal, the choice would ultimately fall to the master, not to the friend of the bondservant. Why? Because the right of redemption is given only to a relative.

In Heb. 2:11-17 it says that Jesus Christ came in “flesh and blood,” in order to qualify as a relative to all men. This gave Jesus the right of redemption for all men all the way back to Adam.

1 John 2:2, “He has covered our sins, and not for ours only, but also those of the whole world.” Jesus gave His very life for the sins of the whole world. He paid the full penalty for every sin ever committed since Adam.

Do you see that? He has already paid the price for every sin since Adam.

Did Jesus have the right of redemption? The law was on His side. The slave master of the earth had no choice in the matter.

There are many people today and throughout history who have not wanted to be redeemed by Jesus Christ. What about these people? What becomes of them? Their sins are already paid for.

In Leviticus it says they have the choice of whether to go with their redeemer, relative, or not. If they went with their redeemer they were still not free, they became bondsman to their new Master.

Rom. 6:18, “Being then made free from sin, you became the servants of righteousness.”

But what about those who refuse to accept the provision God has made for us to be redeemed? The law says in Lev. 25:54 that “even if he is not redeemed in these years, he is still to go free in the year of Jubilee, both he and his children with him.”

The old Hebrew calendar divided time into periods of seven days and seven years. A Jubilee cycle was a period of 49 years. Then ten days into the 50th year a trumpet was blown to signal the day of Jubilee. This was the day that all debts were cancelled, and every man was to return to his inheritance if he had lost it any time during the previous 49 years.

This applied only to those who had been unable to work long enough to pay off their debt. It was only for those who did not have a redeemer—or if people had not accepted the redemption of a willing relative. Maybe they didn’t trust him or know him well enough to trust his motives. Or maybe they thought his commands would be too hard. Whatever their reasons, even if they have not availed themselves of the redemption of Christ in this age, they will still go free in the year of Jubilee. There is a limit on how much judgment and discipline God gives. All the way through the Law God has never metered out eternal torture to anyone.

Many people throughout history have not known of Jesus’ redemption payment. Others have rejected His redemption because they were misinformed about Him. Others preferred to fulfill the commands of their old slave master, sin, and did not want to be set free. Whatever the reason, many people have not availed themselves of Jesus’ redemptive work.
The law says that if a man cannot pay a debt (which is incurred by sin), he is to work as a bondservant to pay the debt. If the debt is too great to be paid, he must work until the year of Jubilee sets him free.
The Bible speaks of a final day of judgment where all men will stand before the Great White Throne (Rev. 15:11-15). Here is where God will foreclose on all debts from the beginning. Jubilee. Here is where all men will be held accountable for their actions that they did in their life on earth.
The Bible speaks of this judgment in terms of “fire.” The divine law never once dispenses torture as a judgment for any sin.

God’s judgments are designed to correct men, not to destroy them. They are designed to restore the lawful order, so that whatever men have done to violate the rights of others will be righted.

Isa 26:9 With my soul I desired You in the night; yea, with my spirit within me I will seek You early; for when Your judgments are in the earth, the people of the world learn righteousness.

The law’s purpose is to obtain justice for the wronged and forgiveness for the sinner who wronged those other people. One of the main purposes of the Law was restitution.

The divine law itself is the “lake of fire.” Moses tells us in Deut. 33:2 that the law is a “fiery law” in His hand. And not once does the divine law prescribe torture for any sin.
Jesus Christ came to pay the full penalty for our sin and for the sin of the whole world. This did not mean that Jesus would have to burn in the pit of hell. Not even for a moment—much less for eternity! He paid the full penalty for sin by dying on the cross, not by burning for eternity. If never-ending torture in hell were really the penalty for sin, then Jesus would still be there! Yet we find that Jesus was only required to be dead for three days.
The duration of the judgment is limited by the law of Jubilee. The fire is meant to burn away all those things that prevent man from accepting Christ’s sacrifice for them.

Rom 14:11 For it is written, "As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to Me, and every tongue shall confess to God."


Then ALL things whether in heaven, earth or under the earth will be in subjection to Him and He will fill ALL in ALL.



Some of this was taken from the teaching of Dr Stephen Jones.

Excellent; I know the concept Jublee; Jesus did pay the full penality

 

[Brucea]

The story of the Rich man and Lazarus, I do not believe is a parable, there is no subsequent explanation as is usually the case with parables. Also parables do not name particular people. Even if it is a parable, it does not change the fact that the passage teaches torment after death for the unrighteous. A parable uses truths from the natural world to illustrate a spiritual truth. A parable is not a fable.
Refrus

Amen! That is what I was talking about

 

[SoundCard]

Sah, I just can't stay away it seems, but here's a simple question. I don't think I've seen anyone really answer this question in this thread. Ok, from your point of view, Hell isn't permanent. Ok. Christ came to save us. If Hell isn't permanent, what did he come to save us from?

 

[GuardianShua]

Sah, I just can't stay away it seems, but here's a simple question. I don't think I've seen anyone really answer this question in this thread. Ok, from your point of view, Hell isn't permanent. Ok. Christ came to save us. If Hell isn't permanent, what did he come to save us from?

He came to save us from death, so that we may have life immortal. If God did not call us back into being, we would never live again. The eternal fire = (judgement) of hell = (grave).

 

[SoundCard]

He came to save us from death, so that we may have life immortal. If God did not call us back into being, we would never live again. The eternal fire = (judgement) of hell = (grave).

Yeah, I think that too, I just don't think it's going to happen for everyone, as it requires Faith in Christ to be saved from Hell, and there are scriptures which talk about people rejecting Christ and not having faith. If Christ saves, and it takes Faith in Christ to be saved, and if the unsaved, the unbelievers who reject Him, what then is there to be said then at the last day for them? They died with their inequity intact. Those who believe in Christ do not. It is atoned for, forgotten, erased, by Faith in Christ. So how can someone who has no faith in Christ be saved by a promise of it which they have not taken part in? It's a grace God has bestowed on us, yet people reject it, and thus they are not redeemed of sin nor are they saved. What exactly am I not getting here if I'm wrong in my assumption? God loves everyone, but for him to be a perfectly and righteous Lord he must fulfill his own Laws given, and that means anyone who isn't saved is held accountable for them. The wage of sin is death. The body dying is not what it is referring to, but death of the soul, the Second Death. The lake of fire. That is the fate of the unrighteous and unforgiven. It is plain, it is clear, it is forwarned several times. It is why Christ died for us, to save us from that fate. And I come to this conclusion from scripture. Not doctrine, not some church that's got it's head on backwards according to others who have posted in this thread. It is the entire point of Grace through FAITH. Without Faith, Grace is not received, and ruin is the inheritance of the unrighteous. Christ raises those who have Faith in him to eternal life. What is the reward then for those who are not risen up through him? Is it eternal life as well? Or is it eternal condemnation? We have no right to say we don't deserve a fate like hell. Our sinful nature is ours from birth and unto death unless we come to Christ. God loves us, so much he sent his only begotten son for us. Why then do you not comprehend it when we say "to say hell is not eternal underminds the sacrifice of Christ?" Because it DOES! It is the WHOLE reason he came for us! To reconcile our sins with God so we don't have that fate anymore! Do you not see this is a false doctrine? Do you not comprehend the depth of what you claim? It's not just a point of view, it's changing the entire reason for which Christ came, written in Scripture, and all you have to show for it is nitpicking at translation when Isaiah guarantees us God's words will endure! You decry the Tabernacle of David when it's time is not yet nigh! What is there not to understand? No matter what translation you use, it is still the same message throughout. To say it is not is to say the word of God is fallible, which I do not believe. And honestly, if you can't see that the translation shouldn't matter, then you're not really taking issues of Christ in faith. If someone alters the word of God, it becomes obvious quickly, and the problem is quelled.

 

[Ben12]

God does have a purpose which is being wrought out through time. This is not just a helter-skelter succession of unrelated events, piling up in confusion on each other. God has a beautifully synchronized purpose which He is executing right on schedule, with every age fitted for its own part in that purpose. "Known unto God are all His works from the beginning of the world." [Acts 15:18], for He is both the " Alpha and Omega, the First and the Last." [Revelation 1:11]. And we would add for emphasis, HE IS ALL OF THE DISTANCE IN BETWEEN! He is greater than time, for He is the Author of time, and in perfect control of its progress and process.
God has "a purpose of the ages, which He made in Christ Jesus our Lord." [Eph. 3:11, Young's]. It contains the whole ,outworking and interplay of good and evil. It's end is secure in His triumphant victory, and it shall redound to His praise. But for now, we would turn our thoughts more to our own participation in this purpose, and know that our life has been ordered of God with a distinct purpose in view, and HE has fitted all of the "times" for our life. As it says of David, "Now the acts of David the king, first and last, behold, they are written in the book of Samuel....with all his reign and his might, AND THE TIMES THAT WENT OVER HIM..." [1 Chronicles 29:29, 20]. Thank God, every fragment of "the times that go over us" are in His sovereign control. The length of each testing, and the glory of each blessing, and all beautifully entwined to fulfill His plan for us, and bring us into our destined place in Him.
Now it is certain that flesh cannot bring itself into the timetables of God, nor can we bring God down to our time schedules. "Lord, do this right now," we pray, and if this is in harmony with His plan, it does come to pass immediately, but if God's plan is otherwise, we learn to wait and in patience possess our souls, saying, "Thy will be done." God can bring us to His time, and sustain us in all the intervals when the vision seems to tarry. And we repeat, while God's purpose is being wrought out through time, it is not subject to time, but time has been fitted for its outworking, for time is a servant to God's purpose.
GOD'S PURPOSE ANTEDATES TIME, for He purposed it in Himself before time began, and then arranged for the times in which He will fulfill it. Therefore His purpose is not in bondage to any man's time, be it a day, or a thousand years, but all time has to serve that purpose. Furthermore, God's grace, whereby this purpose shall be accomplished, also antedates time, for we read, "Before time began He planned to give us in Christ the grace to achieve this purpose..." [2 Timothy 1:9, Phillips].
The sufficiency of grace was freely given before time began, hence God's grace is not bound to time either. Grace can take all the time it desires for its manifestation, for it is not subject to the confines and limitations of time. The religious traditions of some speak of an age of grace, as if all other ages would be devoid of grace. This is utter nonsense. You cannot possibly limit the grace of God to any one age, for it is manifest in all ages, and is not bound to any certain age alone.
Since man is saved by grace, not of self-works, and grace is a gift of a sovereign God, then obviously He can administer that grace to man whenever He chooses. The length of time has no claims upon that grace, it is but a servant to His grace, to reveal by degrees the wonder and glory of God's bountiful grace and mercy. Should God so arrange that this be the hour when He gives grace in your life, then bow low before Him in worship and praise. Yet if you have loved ones who have not yet been given this inflow of grace, do not despair, "In Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order." [1 Cor. 15:22-23], and God has fitted the ages so that there is an appointed time for grace to work in every life. We do not know HIS times and seasons, therefore we warn every man to turn to God now, knowing that we reap what we sow, and to continue sowing to the flesh means more harvests of suffering and sorrow. And we thank God for each heart that is opened to receive of God's grace now. But, for those who seemingly are hardened and resisting His love today, grace has not lost, there is an acceptable time when grace shall reach every hardened soul. In fact, I dare say grace is already at work through the disciplines and trials and fires of purification, preparing that one for the day when they shall bow and worship Him as Lord and Saviour.
With a purpose that antedates time, and grace also given before time for its accomplishment, next we find that there is a wisdom that also antedates time. "But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world (ages) unto our glory." [1 Corinthians 2:7]. The Amplified gives, "That wisdom which God devised and decreed before the ages for our glorification (that is, to lift us into the glory of His presence)."
This divinely imparted wisdom is not a product of time, gained through the unfolding of time's experience, but is that divine wisdom which antedates time, and when received enables us to use time in relationship to the purpose. Wisdom is the KNOW-HOW which is joined to the ability, GRACE, to accomplish the PURPOSE. And how marvelous that God can impart a word of wisdom in an instant, that goes far beyond our "years," and the times of our experience, and the knowledge gained through experience.
You say you would like to receive some of this wisdom ? "If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord." [James 1:5-7].
And Paul writes that in Christ are "all the treasures of divine wisdom, of comprehensive insight into the ways and purposes of God, and all the riches of spiritual knowledge and enlightenment stored up and lie hidden." [Colossians 2 :3, Amplified].
So, to ask in faith, and to recognize that this wisdom is in Christ and that He abides within us by His Spirit, and is able to impart that wisdom according to the need, as we live and walk in harmony with the Spirit. And the more we come into this union with Christ, the greater the flow of His life through us, in all its manifestations. And "He is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption." [1 Cor. 1:30].
A purpose-- grace for its out working--wisdom to direct it, and then we find that God has also promised LIFE which also antedates time, and which can endure all the ages, and still remain in full strength at the end of time. "In hope of eternal (Greek, aionian, AGE--ABIDING) life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world (before the ages) began; but hath in due time manifested..." [Titus 1:2-3].
Aionian-life, or age-abiding life is life that abides throughout all time, for it is not subject to time, being that life of God which actually antedates time. The ringing declaration that God shall be "all in all" makes it self-evident that the end is secure. [1 Cor. 15:28]. What the real need is, is LIFE WHICH CAN ABIDE THE PASSING OF TIME, so that we do not miss out on any of the processes of the coming ages. This is that divine life which God promised before time began, and which is now made manifest through our Lord Jesus Christ, "Who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality ( Greek, incorruption) to light through the gospel." [2 Timothy 1:10].
There is no need to worry about "eternity" which is secure in the hand of God, the question is, do we have life which can last as long as time lasts? There is a life that goes beyond this "bios," physical life of the flesh. There is a life which goes beyond "psuche," Greek word for soulish life. The Greek word used for divine, age-abiding life is "zoe," and this life antedated time, abides all through time, and will abound after the ages have run their course and the whole returned back into God, to find its consummation in Him. It is of this life which John spake, when he said, "He that hath the Son hath life." [ 1 John 5:12]. Jesus Christ IS our life, and abiding within our hearts by faith, and by His Spirit, we are passing from the realms of death into the fullness of His life. "I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly." [John 10:10].
To speak of that which is before time, makes it self-evident that time has a beginning. Time's beginnings no doubt are concurrent with Genesis 1:1, "In the beginnings." The Hebrew word here is in the plural form. It has its counterpart in Hebrews 1:10, "And, Thou, Lord, in the beginnings ( here the Greek word also is plural) hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of Thine hands." While this was the beginnings of many things--sin's entrance into the universe, and many other projections of God's purpose, time certainly figures in this beginning. BUT, we repeat, there are those things which were BEFORE TIME, which have a more eternal quality, they abide through the passing of time, and shall emerge in victory after time shall be no more.

cont

 

[Ben12]

It is also apparent that there are many ages yet to come, for Paul writes "that in the ages (plural) to come He might shew the exceeding riches of His grace in kindness towards us through Christ Jesus." [Eph. 2:7].
That time also has an ending is also revealed, for we read the statement, "neither in this world (age), neither in the world (age) to come." [Matthew 12:32]. Again, "The harvest is the end of the world (age)." [Matthew 13:39]. And, "Upon whom the ends of the ages have come." [1 Cor. 10:11]. Now, if the ages are plural, then one has to end for the next one to begin. But if one age is equal to eternity, then the plural is an impossibility. Yet we hear a most senseless phrase, "the endless ages of eternity." If one age is endless, there is no plurality, and if there is an end to an age, then it is not eternal.
Our common law of opposites can offer us a good point for consideration about time and eternity. We need no proof that when we say "down" that there is an "up." We need no proof that there is an "out" when we say "in." So also, to say "TIME" definitely implies that it has an opposite which is "ETERNITY." Eternity signifies a condition or a state wherein time does not even exist any more than "up" exists in "down."
Much confusion concerning God's plan of the ages is eliminated when we understand that the words given in our King James Version, forever, eternal, everlasting, all spring from the root Greek word "a ion" meaning age. When we read, "But now once in the end of the world (age) hath He appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself" [Hebrews 9:26], we know that this was not the end of the world, for it has continued two thousand years since Calvary. But we do recognize that it was an end to a certain age, a time period which entailed a certain form of God's dealings with man, and then a transition into a new age, in which He dealt with man in a new order. Thus we pass from age to age, each successive age fulfilling God's purpose, for which it was framed, fitted, and then passing away, while a new one begins.
God alone is the ETERNAL CENTER from which all time proceeds, and into Whom all things return to find their consummation. "For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy." [Isaiah 57:15]. There is no such thing as time succession with God, as He can deal with our past or future as equally as with our present, for all is alike unto Him. He is the ETERNAL I AM. We say, He was, He is, and He will be, but actually HE IS alone expresses Him. For us there has to be a past and a future, a point of beginning and an ending, for we are under the workings of time. But HE who is greater than all time, is not subject to its bondage, nor limited to its operations.
Augustine said, "Past and future I find in all the motion of things. In the truth which abideth I find not past and future, but only the present. And this without fear or possibility of change. Take God and thou wilt find the I AM. To mount beyond time, who shall do this in his own strength? But let Him lift us up, Who said to the Father, I will that where I AM that there they may be also." End of quote.
Now, the more we yield to the in workings of the Spirit of God, the more we shall come into harmony with His purpose being wrought throughout the ages. The more we shall receive of His grace for its accomplishment in our life. The more we shall receive of His wisdom to know the way. And the more we shall receive of His LIFE to abide the processing.
While the Scriptures speak of many different ages, it also points to that climactic age of all ages. We read the phrase "Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever." [Hebrews 1:8]. These words "for ever and ever" come from the Greek which literally means TO THE AGE OF THE AGES. This is very familiar terminology in the Scripture. In the Tabernacle structure of the Old Testament, we read of the court, of the sanctuary, and then of the holiest of all, or the holy of holies. It was the most holy place, where the presence of God dwelt, and into which place the high priest went but once a year, and then always with the blood of the sacrifice which was a covering for their sins.
Then we read of "the song of songs which is Solomon's." [Song of Solomon 1:1]. For Solomon "spake three thousand proverbs: and his songs were a thousand and five." [ 1 Kings 4:32]. But of all the songs which he wrote, there was one that was chief above them all, it was the song of songs.
Thus all through the Scriptures, though obscured by many translators, we have this phrase "to the age of the ages." It points to that age which shall be the greatest of all ages, and which finds its type in the year of Jubilee. That glorious climax to His purpose and process of the ages, wherein He says, "Behold, I make ALL things new." And when He says, " ALL," is self-evident that there is nothing remaining in the universe which shall not be made new, else all is not all.
"For He must reign, till He hath put all enemies under His feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death." [1 Corinthians 15:25-26]. When the last enemy is under His feet, destroyed, it is self-evident that none remains. Then shall God be all in all ! The Amplified gives, "Be everything to everyone."
"God is light, and in Him is no darkness at all." [ 1 John 1:5]. Thus it is self-evident that when He is all in all in me, there will be no darkness left in me, but the whole shall be light, else He is not all in all.
The sun goes down and darkness fills the room where you are sitting, then you flip the switch and "turn on the light," where does the darkness go? It is dissipated by the light, it is swallowed up into the light. It does not hide compact in a corner until later when it speaks out and overcomes the light and reigns again, it cannot overpower the light. "In Him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not." [John 1:4-5]. He is that True Light "which lighteth every man that cometh into the world" [Verse 9], and when every man has been fully illuminated, all darkness is gone. The low vibrations of darkness shall be raised to the higher vibrations of light, and the whole restored into God again.
"Him we preach and proclaim, warning and admonishing everyone and instructing everyone in all wisdom, (in comprehensive insight into the ways and purposes of God), that we may present EVERY PERSON mature-- full-grown, fully initiated, complete and perfect-in Christ, the Anointed One." [Colossians 1:28, Amplified].
Now , we return to our thought, coming into Christ, time is a servant, not a master, though in our state of imperfection we seem to be bound by time. But consider the promise contained in the statement, " And it came to pass in the process of time..." [Exodus 2 23]. Time is transitory, it does not last, therefore everything which is related to time's processing simply COMES TO PASS, out of the future, into our present, and on into our past, for such are the workings of time. Since God fitted the ages for their purpose, and each fragment of time must obey His command, once that allotted time has been run, its process complete, it makes way for the next thing to come and be fulfilled.
But, once in a while we all feel like the Israelites, "And it came to pass, while the Ark abode in Kirjathjearim, THAT THE TIME WAS LONG; for it was twenty years." [1 Samuel 7:2]. But God sustains even in these periods, and we can say again with the Psalmist, "My times are in Thy hand." It is good to know where our times are, and when we are assured that they are in God's hands, then leave your times there. He will begin and end every situation and circumstance right on schedule, and utilize every moment in between to fully work out His purpose and plan for your life. For the totality of all time is in His control, and every moment is His. This is more than recognizing that God controls the "whole scheme" of things, but also that every detail is under sovereign care, and you are His workmanship.
"I said in my heart, God will judge the righteous and the wicked; for there is a time (appointed) for every matter and purpose and for every work." [Eccl. 3:17, Amplified].
Every degree of time, every advance into new eras, all moves according to the counsel of God, with the whole interplay of good and evil fulfilling His will. TIME IS BUT A SERVANT to fulfill His plan. And that which was given us in Christ before time began, will abide times passing, and bring us through into the glorious consummation wherein we shall be satisfied with His fullness, and redound to His glory.

Ray Prinzing