There Are Good People On Both Sides

[mark46]

Trump lashes out at 'alt-left' in Charlottesville, says 'fine people on both sides'

Trump has made another clarifying post, in addition to his tweets.

For him, we are having a debate between the KKK, white supremacists, and nazis on one side and the left on the other. Clearly many of his backers are among the "good" people in these groups.

I can add little. The president has every right to his views. As president, he can declare that the KKK, nazis, skinheads and white supremacists should no longer be considered terrorists. The people will tell us their opinions with their votes. As was the case with Obama, I suggest that many, many Republicans will NOT want Trump anywhere near their 2018 campaigns. Of course, many will.

My OPEN question is what will happen to the Republican Party in 2020 and 2022. Will the Trump changes become relatively entrenched?

 

[SkyWriting]

Trump lashes out at 'alt-left' in Charlottesville, says 'fine people on both sides'

Trump has made another clarifying post, in addition to his tweets.

For him, we are having a debate between the KKK, white supremacists, and nazis on one side and the left on the other. Clearly many of his backers are among the "good" people in these groups.

I can add little. The president has every right to his views. As president, he can declare that the KKK, nazis, skinheads and white supremacists should no longer be considered terrorists. The people will tell us their opinions with their votes. As was the case with Obama, I suggest that many, many Republicans will NOT want Trump anywhere near their 2018 campaigns. Of course, many will.

My OPEN question is what will happen to the Republican Party in 2020 and 2022. Will the Trump changes become relatively entrenched?

Personal Prophesy is not allowed in CF. Its in the terms of Service.

But to your point, Trump is not the leader of the party.
Naturally he will have some influence.
Hopefully everyone will manage their fears of everything.

 

[~Anastasia~]

One could hope that the good folks on both sides will finally be moved toward moderation and the more objectionable platforms removed.

Only time will tell. But it would be nice if we could all return to sanity before we have to hit rock bottom.

And this is not a post for or against either side. I'm not particularly a supporter of anyone, but have found myself in the rather uncomfortable position of casting my vote AGAINST a particular candidate rather than for the one I actually voted for.

 

[Always in His Presence]

Do you believe there are good people in the black supremacist group black lives matter?

 

[HereIStand]

What he said was that there were good people there protesting the removal of Robert E. Lee's statue. That is open to debate, but he did not say there are good Nazis, white supremacists, and KKK members. He is correct that there were leftists protesters there intent on violence. He is right about what statue is next. If Robert E. Lee can go, Thomas Jefferson should also.

 

[Rubiks]

Do you believe there are good people in the black supremacist group black lives matter?

BLM isn't a group, it's a movement. While there are racists and other crazy people involved in the BLM movement, it's not at all a "black supremacist movement."

I think BLM is a mixed bag: both full of good people and bad people who do nothing but make their goal even more unreachable.

 

[mark46]

If Robert E. Lee can go, Thomas Jefferson should also.

Unless I have grossly misread my history, Lee led battles resulting in the killing of hundreds of thousands of Americans, and was one of the leaders of a rebellion. Jefferson was an Amercian president and one of our founding fathers.

Yes, there are many African-Americans and others on the left who believe that we shouldn't honor anyone in that time that owned slaves or in any way supported slavery. That is much different than dealing with groups that CURRENTLY want a white nation, or a Christian white nation.

 

[Rion]

You realize that the 'alt-left' he was talking about was Antifa, who actually started the fights the other day, and who have rioted and attacked people before? You must denounce both sides or both sides will continue to grow.

BLM isn't a group, it's a movement. While there are racists and other crazy people involved in the BLM movement, it's not at all a "black supremacist movement."

I think BLM is a mixed bag: both full of good people and bad people who do nothing but make their goal even more unreachable.

It's founded on black supremacist principles. Rotten roots mean rotten fruit.

 

[pescador]

One could hope that the good folks on both sides will finally be moved toward moderation and the more objectionable platforms removed.

Only time will tell. But it would be nice if we could all return to sanity before we have to hit rock bottom.

And this is not a post for or against either side. I'm not particularly a supporter of anyone, but have found myself in the rather uncomfortable position of casting my vote AGAINST a particular candidate rather than for the one I actually voted for.

I don't think I can call neo-Nazis, KKK members, or any other hate groups "good folks".

 

[MoonlessNight]

I would think that any Christian would be able to see that there are good people involved in any organization.

Is not recognizing that all men are fallen, but all men are capable of redemption by the grace of God, the cornerstone of Christianity?

Dismissing any group of people as entirely evil is fundamentally anti-Christian.

Recall that the first Christians were able to recognize that the Roman authorities were not entirely evil, even though the Romans were actively persecuting them with worse torments than most of us will ever have to witness or endure.

 

[mark46]

I don't think I can call neo-Nazis, KKK members, or any other hate groups "good folks".

I think that this is part of the issue. I agree that we CANNOT normalize these views or the behavior of these groups. There are folks that are wingnuts on both the right and the left. As a country, we have dealt with these extremes for all our history. And yes, we should sit down and talk more. I believe that the parties worked relatively well together (with lots of struggles) from WWII until 911.

 

[mark46]

I

Dismissing any group of people as entirely evil is fundamentally anti-Christian.

wiccans?

satanists?

Obviously, there are people that can be saved in any organization. That does NOT mean that the organization is not evil, and that its views aren't evil.

For me, it is simply confusing to many to say that the KKK and the nazis are organziataions with some good people and some not-so-good.

 

[MoonlessNight]

Unless I have grossly misread my history, Lee led battles resulting in the killing of hundreds of thousands of Americans, and was one of the leaders of a rebellion. Jefferson was an Amercian president and on of our founding fathers.

Thomas Jefferson penned the Declaration of Independence, which was the call that began the American Revolution, a rebellion that killed tens of thousands of Americans, and hundreds of thousands of their British countrymen. And it's not like Jefferson wasn't involved in the revolution after he wrote the Declaration.

If Lee should be condemned for his role in the slaughter, than so to should Jefferson be condemned for his role in the slaughter.

 

[MoonlessNight]

wiccans?

satanists?

Obviously, there are people that can be saved in any organization. that odes NOT mean that the organization is not evil, and that its views aren't evil.

We are talking about individual people in the organizations. The statement that you are objecting to is the notion that "there are good people on both sides" not "both sides are good."

And indeed, despite the real evil that is satanism, or the complete fraud that is wiccanism, there are good people who have joined both groups due to ignorance, pride, wrath or some other defect. I would find nothing objectionable about saying that there are good people in both of those places, even if the movements themselves are objectively evil.

 

[~Anastasia~]

I don't think I can call neo-Nazis, KKK members, or any other hate groups "good folks".

I should have clarified.

I meant Trump and anti-Trump. Left and Right. However else we polarize ourselves.

 

[mark46]

Thomas Jefferson penned the Declaration of Independence, which was the call that began the American Revolution, a rebellion that killed tens of thousands of Americans, and hundreds of thousands of their British countrymen. And it's not like Jefferson wasn't involved in the revolution after he wrote the Declaration.

If Lee should be condemned for his role in the slaughter, than so to should Jefferson be condemned for his role in the slaughter.

One can indeed take the position of pacifism. It is a Christian position. From that perspective, Jefferson should condemned for promoting war. For a pacifist, the reason is somewhat irrelevant. Wars of freedom are equivalent of wars to protect the right to keep slaves.

 

[Rion]

Mark, in another thread you admitted to being older, so let me explain Antifa to you. They are not the "worker rights" communists you are probably familiar with. These people are violent radicals who consider liberal Western democracy an evil to be stamped out. They despise western / European thought and proudly boast that they will kill Democrats too. Can you understand why many of us don't agree with the neo-nazis but don't want to cozy up to these nuts either?

 

[mark46]

We are talking about individual people in the organizations. The statement that you are objecting to is the notion that "there are good people on both sides" not "both sides are good."

And indeed, despite the real evil that is satanism, or the complete fraud that is wiccanism, there are good people who have joined both groups due to ignorance, pride, wrath or some other defect. I would find nothing objectionable about saying that there are good people in both of those places, even if the movements themselves are objectively evil.

Yes there are good people in all organizations.

Trump has said exactly that today. Left alone, this implies a false equivalence between these groups and other groups, the views of these groups are normalized.

 

[MoonlessNight]

All of what I said is, of course, not getting into the fact that President Trump didn't mention the KKK, or Nazis or any other such group. The OP is reading that into the statement because he apparently can't conceive of there being "two sides" without one of the sides being Nazis. One wonders if he is able to conceive of two sides without the other one being Stalinists.

If we restrict ourselves to what was actually said, it becomes even less objectionable and even praiseworthy.

 

[MoonlessNight]

Yes there are good people in all organizations.

Trump has said exactly that today. Left alone, this implies a false equivalence between these groups and other groups, the views of these groups are normalized.

You want me to be outraged because a true statement might encourage a false equivalence between nazis and other groups?

There's too much actual false equivalence in the world for me to lose any sleep over what you think might happen if people interpret a true statement in just the right way. I mean, if I had a dime for the number of times I've seen people try to argue that speaking Biblical truth is equivalent to being an Islamic terrorist, that alone would make me a hefty sum. And there is far more false equivalence out there than that.