There Are Good People On Both Sides

[mark46]

I don't think Nazis are morally equivalent but you shouldn't go fight monsters by becoming a monster yourself. We can get rid of symbols of racism without carrying baseball bats, clubs, and without having to ambush skinheads.

I agree.

If folks are coming to protest gunman with several weapons each, one should stay a significant distance away, and be prepared to die. That's the reality of allowing an armed rally of domestic terrorists.

I was involved in many protests in the 60's. One side was armed, the police were armed, the protestors were not. It was very dangerous.

 

[mark46]

Curiously, Robert E Lee was opposed to the monuments:


“It’s often forgotten that Lee himself, after the Civil War, opposed monuments, specifically Confederate war monuments,” said Jonathan Horn, the author of the Lee biography, “The Man Who Would Not Be Washington.”

Robert E. Lee opposed Confederate monuments

Yes, he was.

The monuments came in the time of Wilson, when the reconstruction laws were reversed and the Klan became very active, and then again in the 60's when many Southern governments were fighting against civil right legislation. The monuments and the flags were clear symbols that unified the racists..

 

[SoldierOfTheKing]

I can't just call up the mayor of new york and force him to give me a rally to bring 1000 armed gunman into a park with nazi flags for a rally. Local governments have rights also.

The rally participants have to follow the firearms laws of New York, and if the park can't accomodate a rally of 1000 that might be an issue. Local governments cannot deny a permit for a rally based on the message of rally though. If a local government denies a rally permit, it needs to be able to show in court that the decision was solely based on public safely, not political bias.

National Socialist Party of America v. Village of Skokie, 432 U.S. 43 (1977)

The organizers of Unite The Right have grounds for a civil rights suit against the city of Charlottesville.

 

[FireDragon76]

I think America is going to have to review the legal precedents. Certain forms of demonstration endanger public safety. And forms of speech which incite violence are not protected by the 1st Ammendment. It's pretty obvious some of the groups involved at the rally were domestic terrorists that were there to instigate violent incidents. They came armed and looking for trouble.

 

[Rion]

This person's group members were right there at that rally, hun. But do feel free to keep trying to distract and defend the president and his white supremacist buddies.

Do you mean the whole alt-right? Because there's two alt-rights: the non-standard socially liberal and economically conservative supporters who are trash posters, memers, and dissidents who make up Trump's base, and the version the media portrays, which are the idiots like who were at the rally. I've seen the former start adopting the term "New Right" to try and avoid the narrative pushed by the media, so maybe that'll clear up the confusion?

 

[Hank77]

Trump has made another clarifying post, in addition to his tweets.

Here is a statement from a witness to both the Friday night and Saturday events.

 

[Rion]

Here is a statement from a witness to both the Friday night and Saturday events.

*Watches*

3:38 in. She's not made any actual arguments, just claiming that it is wrong that he said it should be allowed to happen.

4:30 in. She claims he's lying that the other side attacked, yet video evidence has shown that Antifa initiated the conflict along several lines* and the CoP said as much in his statement.

4:54 in. "Their permit did not cover [them getting violent]." You don't say?

5:00+ in. And she's on a soap box.

*If you want clips, PM me, not sure if it is kosher to post.

 

[Hank77]

*Watches*

3:38 in. She's not made any actual arguments, just claiming that it is wrong that he said it should be allowed to happen.

4:30 in. She claims he's lying that the other side attacked, yet video evidence has shown that Antifa initiated the conflict along several lines* and the CoP said as much in his statement.

4:54 in. "Their permit did not cover [them getting violent]." You don't say?

5:00+ in. And she's on a soap box.

*If you want clips, PM me, not sure if it is kosher to post.

When these groups, on Friday night, marched chanting what they were chanting, it's pretty clear what they were up to and it wasn't just about statues. That is just ridiculous to even surmise.
When they put out the flyers that said what they said, it wasn't about statues.
When they carried shields and pushed through and over Christians singing a Christian song it was not peaceful and non-violent on their part.

 

[Rion]

When these groups, on Friday night, marched chanting what they were chanting, it's pretty clear what they were up to and it wasn't just about statues. That is just ridiculous to even surmise.
When they put out the flyers that said what they said, it wasn't about statues.
When they carried shields and pushed through and over Christians singing a Christian song it was not peaceful and non-violent on their part.

I don't like these people any more than you, but if they have a legal right to assemble, they have a legal right. Both sides initiated violence at different points, but the truth is that they should have never been able to come in contact. TBH I would suggest that a civil case should be brought against the CoP and Mayor for their complete screw up here.

 

[SoldierOfTheKing]

Here is a statement from a witness to both the Friday night and Saturday events.

Trump is lying? Does she think he was at Charlottesville or something? He looked at the facts that were available to him, and came to a conclusion as to what happened. As he pointed out, one side had a permit to rally, the other did not.

We're not exactly talking about a disinterested witness here either. There are other witnesses too...

The System Revealed: Antifa, Virginia Politicians And Police Work Together To Shut Down #UniteTheRight

The mask is off.

There can be no further delusions nor any more comforting lies. “America” and the supposed “freedoms” guaranteed by its Constitution are as relevant today as the Holy Roman Empire’s claims to sovereignty or the head of the House of Stuart boasting about being King of England.

​

In Charlottesville, Virginia, the police department openly attacked a demonstration in defense of European-American heritage. They did these despite the Unite The Right rally having secured a permit (after legal action) and having every right to host its peaceful demonstration in defense of the Robert E. Lee statue.

“Antifa,” the openly communist, anti-white and violent thugs who exist solely to attack European-Americans, were out in force in the city, using the cowardly tactics they specialize in: spraying demonstrators with mace, throwing bottles and bricks, and attacking people with weapons (including a homemade flamethrower).

It is quite true, as VDARE.com reported, that the police did not protect demonstrators from Antifa and did little to prevent confrontations. Attendees of the demonstration, rather than walking a clear path to the park, were instead forced to walk through a line of screaming protesters. Liberal clergyman and elderly women held signs about “peace” and “love” and smiled benevolently—as violent Leftist protesters attacked from the crowd. They are as culpable as the Antifa themselves for the violence unleashed.


But that was not close to the worst. Demonstrators did not need protection from Antifa. All the police would have had to do to ensure a safe demonstration was simply go home—which is what happened in Berkeley. Patriots equipped with shields, inured to Antifa tactics of throwing bricks and spraying mace, had secured Lee Park (excuse me, “Emancipation Park”) and may indeed have outnumbered both Antifa and counter-demonstrators in terms of pure numbers. Several were armed, and the city fathers should be offering Unite The Right activists tearful tributes for the latter’s saint-like restraint in not opening fire despite more than justified provocation.

If police had done nothing, the public would have been safer. Instead, unforgivably, the police attacked (not dispersed—attacked) the legal demonstration, threatening attendees with arrest if they stayed in Lee Park.

Then activists, totally unprotected by police, were deliberately funneled into a gauntlet of attacking Communists, in a kind of Kill Zone. Injuries on both sides were predictable. (Of course, much like cuckservatives who bow and scrape to the Main Stream Media, the police were then insulted by the Communists for their trouble.

This could have been a relatively stable situation: a patriot demonstration protected by its own shield wall (and ideally, by police who actually did their job) along with a separate group of Leftist protesters, with both groups enjoying the right to free speech supposedly guaranteed them by the Constitution.

Instead, the police precipitated a running battle which engulfed all of Charlottesville. The result: Antifa running wild and chasing down isolated pockets of Unite The Right attendees as the latter defended themselves as best they could, with bystanders were caught in the melee. Police showed no interest in doing anything other than threatening patriots with arrests for “unlawful assembly.”

In contrast, of course, Leftists were free to disobey the laws and marched merrily down the streets, many chanting “Black Lives Matter!”, causing chaos as they went. As Rebel Media’s Faith Goldy reported, this was an absurd “double standard.” Anarcho-Tyranny was the order of the day in C-Ville.

The casualties are piling up as I write this on Saturday evening [Charlottesville Rally Turns Deadly; One Killed After Car Strikes Crowd, by Phil McCausland, Emmanuelle Saliba, and Moira Donohue, NBC News, August 12, 2017]. A car plowed into a crowd of Leftist protesters, though it is unknown whether this was deliberate or politically motivated. But note that the only reason this was even possible is that law enforcement thought it was a good idea to turn over the streets to anarchists.

Adding to the chaos, there is also a report of a National Guard helicopter crashing nearby and two fatalities have been reported [Helicopter crash in Albemarle County, CBS 19, August 12, 2017].

All of this occurred after a “state of emergency” had been declared and demonstrations were supposed to have been halted.

It’s obvious to anyone on the ground, or anyone who has been paying attention to any of this over the last few years, that Antifa are responsible for the entirety of the violence. Leftists, no matter how extreme, do not have to fear Right Wing violence at their events, nor do they have to fear the police ignoring attacks against them.

Violence did not just “break out” at Unite The Right. Attendees were attacked—by Leftists and by the police. They worked together as seamlessly as if they had common leadership.

Despite this, or perhaps because of it, the System’s most shameless courtiers, Main Stream Media journalists, are trying to blame Unite The Right participants.

As Antifa openly slash tires, attack activists (and random bystanders) and parade under symbols of Communist mass murder, it is not as though journalists do not see what is happening. No one can pretend it is pro-white demonstrators who are being violent or destroying property, not even reporters. However, like the city government, the journalists are determined to disguise this reality.

 

[Hank77]

he pointed out, one side had a permit to rally, the other did not.

Why would they need a permit, they weren't putting on an event? They were protesting an event.
The racist groups didn't have a permit to be marching and chanting in the streets the night before.

Those racist groups got just what they were hoping for.

 

[LoAmmi]

Why would they need a permit, they weren't putting on an event? They were protesting an event.
The racist groups didn't have a permit to be marching and chanting in the streets the night before.

Those racist groups got just what they were hoping for.

Because that's the current talking point and it's good enough! Truth is...fluid, subjective. Just so long as it's kind of truthy, it's good enough. Sounds good, right? Only one side has a permit! Let's just ignore that a city wouldn't even issue a second permit for the same site to have another event. That's not important.

Trump said it. I believe it. That settles it.

 

[SoldierOfTheKing]

Why would they need a permit, they weren't putting on an event? They were protesting an event.

They came to attack a lawful assembly. They were looking for a fight...

...and they certainly got one this time.

 

[variant]

Do you mean the whole alt-right? Because there's two alt-rights: the non-standard socially liberal and economically conservative supporters who are trash posters, memers, and dissidents who make up Trump's base, and the version the media portrays, which are the idiots like who were at the rally. I've seen the former start adopting the term "New Right" to try and avoid the narrative pushed by the media, so maybe that'll clear up the confusion?

Well in Charlottesville, the white supremacist, Nazi and KKK elements came together in an attempt to "unite the right".

The "fine people" that went along to protest the removal of a confederate monument and didn't notice they were attending a hate rally must be pretty dumb indeed.

The rest of the "alt-right" doesn't seem to want to clear up any confusion about where they stand so much as they want to lash out at some liberal instigators that went there, so, maybe it's not the "media" that needs to clarify the issue for us.

 

[Rion]

Well in Chancellorsville, the white supremacist, Nazi and KKK elements came together in an attempt to "unite the right".

The "fine people" that went along to protest the removal of a confederate monument and didn't notice they were attending a hate rally must be pretty dumb indeed.

The rest of the "alt-right" doesn't seem to want to clear up any confusion about where they stand so much as they want to lash out at some liberal instigators that went there, so, maybe it's not the "media" that needs to clarify the issue for us.

The other alt-right people weren't even there, is what I was saying.

 

[variant]

The other alt-right people weren't even there, is what I was saying.

I would generally agree with you.

Trump seems to think they were there.

I would take that as an insult if I considered myself "alt-right" but not in league with those other folks.

 

[Jenny_8675309]

They came to attack a lawful assembly. They were looking for a fight...

...and they certainly got one this time.

Maybe you could try not to sound so happy about violence and death? Do you think? I'd hate anyone to get the wrong idea.

 

[JGG]

Trump lashes out at 'alt-left' in Charlottesville, says 'fine people on both sides'

Trump has made another clarifying post, in addition to his tweets.

For him, we are having a debate between the KKK, white supremacists, and nazis on one side and the left on the other. Clearly many of his backers are among the "good" people in these groups.

I can add little. The president has every right to his views. As president, he can declare that the KKK, nazis, skinheads and white supremacists should no longer be considered terrorists. The people will tell us their opinions with their votes. As was the case with Obama, I suggest that many, many Republicans will NOT want Trump anywhere near their 2018 campaigns. Of course, many will.

My OPEN question is what will happen to the Republican Party in 2020 and 2022. Will the Trump changes become relatively entrenched?

It seems to me Republicans only have one choice: Full on Naziism. They've kind of burned bridges with Jews anyone who isn't white, and a rather significant portion of those people who are. Who does that leave? People who think Hitler was a pretty neat guy.

They need flags with swastikas, threats to ban Jews from America, skin color paint swatches to determine who is white enough, and a wall to prevent New Yorkers from sneaking into the rest of the country.

 

[JGG]

Maybe you could try not to sound so happy about violence and death? Do you think? I'd hate anyone to get the wrong idea.

Uh, he's a soldier of Warrior Jesus. They want nothing more than to kill infidels.

 

[JGG]

BLM isn't a group, it's a movement. While there are racists and other crazy people involved in the BLM movement, it's not at all a "black supremacist movement."

I think BLM is a mixed bag: both full of good people and bad people who do nothing but make their goal even more unreachable.

And people on the right know that there are sone questionable Nazis. That Joseph Goebbels. He just couldn't utter a sentence without using naughty language. But for the most part Nazis are wholesome, God fearing Christians, who just want to eliminate the Jews, and have a good ol'fashioned book bonfire. They are an important voice in the United Right.