What do you think the number of the beast means?

  • man-made Torah

    Votes: 2 11.1%
  • man-made Christ

    Votes: 3 16.7%
  • both of the above

    Votes: 1 5.6%
  • Nero or Neron

    Votes: 4 22.2%
  • other

    Votes: 12 66.7%
  • all of the above

    Votes: 1 5.6%

  • Total voters
    18

1 John 4:1

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These all died in faith, not having received the things promised, but having seen them and greeted them from afar, and having acknowledged that they were strangers and exiles on the earth.
~Hebrews 11:13

Many prophecies they did not see their fulfillment in their time. And so all those passages have their fulfillment in the end times and only once do they get fulfilled. You can't break the continuity of scripture for the sake of your own sanity or patience. The scriptures have their specific time of fulfillment because they were spoken for a reason. The one reason they were spoken for is the one time they are fulfilled.

Through this "dual fulfillment" theory you are going beyond what is written by applying it to EVERY prophecy and finding fulfillment in this part or in that part with whatever you claim to fulfill it or match it's description. But when the actual fulfillment comes, you won't be ready because you trusted in your own understanding.

This practice is not how scripture is to be understood.

If you are not firm in faith, then you will not be firm at all. ~Isaiah 7:9

Have you been wrong about something that you didn't find out you were wrong about till later? I have. Would it have made you realize you were wrong faster if some random guy on the internet told you that you were trusting in your own understanding rather than God's and implied you weren't being firm in your faith by quoting Isaiah 7:9 at you?
 
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Kevin Snow

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Have you been wrong about something that you didn't find out you were wrong about till later? I have. Would it have made you realize you were wrong faster if some random guy on the internet told you that you were trusting in your own understanding rather than God's and implied you weren't being firm in your faith by quoting Isaiah 7:9 at you?
Yes
 
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1 John 4:1

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Well it doesn't for me. I'm clicking ignore on you. (not for this comment alone but I've been finding your comments condescending to me for quite some time)
 
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Ken Rank

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These all died in faith, not having received the things promised, but having seen them and greeted them from afar, and having acknowledged that they were strangers and exiles on the earth.
~Hebrews 11:13

Many prophecies they did not see their fulfillment in their time. And so all those passages have their fulfillment in the end times and only once do they get fulfilled. You can't break the continuity of scripture for the sake of your own sanity or patience. The scriptures have their specific time of fulfillment because they were spoken for a reason. The one reason they were spoken for is the one time they are fulfilled.

Through this "dual fulfillment" theory you are going beyond what is written by applying it to EVERY prophecy and finding fulfillment in this part or in that part with whatever you claim to fulfill it or match it's description. But when the actual fulfillment comes, you won't be ready because you trusted in your own understanding.

This practice is not how scripture is to be understood.

If you are not firm in faith, then you will not be firm at all. ~Isaiah 7:9
Look, I didn't apply it to every prophecy... let's just stick to the main point I made that you didn't address at all.

But regarding Acts 2... a miracle takes place, the disciples speaking in other languages and people from many nations hearing in their own tongue. What is happening??? Are these men drunk??? No, says Peter... this is what Joel wrote about... and then he quotes the Joel passage. The only problem is, only some of those passages apply to what is happening then, and other parts of it apply to a future time yet he quoted it ALL to the people as an explanation of what they were seeing AT THAT TIME.

Do you mind addressing this, please.
 
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jgr

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These all died in faith, not having received the things promised, but having seen them and greeted them from afar, and having acknowledged that they were strangers and exiles on the earth.
~Hebrews 11:13

Many prophecies they did not see their fulfillment in their time. And so all those passages have their fulfillment in the end times and only once do they get fulfilled. You can't break the continuity of scripture for the sake of your own sanity or patience. The scriptures have their specific time of fulfillment because they were spoken for a reason. The one reason they were spoken for is the one time they are fulfilled.

Through this "dual fulfillment" theory you are going beyond what is written by applying it to EVERY prophecy and finding fulfillment in this part or in that part with whatever you claim to fulfill it or match it's description. But when the actual fulfillment comes, you won't be ready because you trusted in your own understanding.

This practice is not how scripture is to be understood.

If you are not firm in faith, then you will not be firm at all. ~Isaiah 7:9

When was this fulfilled?

Psalm 18
6 In my distress I called upon the Lord, and cried unto my God: he heard my voice out of his temple, and my cry came before him, even into his ears.
7 Then the earth shook and trembled; the foundations also of the hills moved and were shaken, because he was wroth.
8 There went up a smoke out of his nostrils, and fire out of his mouth devoured: coals were kindled by it.
9 He bowed the heavens also, and came down: and darkness was under his feet.
 
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Kevin Snow

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When was this fulfilled?

Psalm 18
6 In my distress I called upon the Lord, and cried unto my God: he heard my voice out of his temple, and my cry came before him, even into his ears.
7 Then the earth shook and trembled; the foundations also of the hills moved and were shaken, because he was wroth.
8 There went up a smoke out of his nostrils, and fire out of his mouth devoured: coals were kindled by it.
9 He bowed the heavens also, and came down: and darkness was under his feet.
That was spoken of David's experience being rescued by God. It was fulfilled when he was rescued by God from Saul and even from all his enemies. The great imagery is an example of poetry and a spiritual fulfillment.
 
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1 John 4:1

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When was this fulfilled?

Psalm 18
6 In my distress I called upon the Lord, and cried unto my God: he heard my voice out of his temple, and my cry came before him, even into his ears.
7 Then the earth shook and trembled; the foundations also of the hills moved and were shaken, because he was wroth.
8 There went up a smoke out of his nostrils, and fire out of his mouth devoured: coals were kindled by it.
9 He bowed the heavens also, and came down: and darkness was under his feet.

I think this seems to be referring to the giving of the law at mount Sinai and using the imagery for God helping David like he helped Israel (at least that's how I would see it). (or he's referring to both at once) However, there's a really clear example where multiple things are spoken of at once. Is it talking about the prince of Tyre, Satan or Adam? or is it talking about all of them? I think this relates to the dual fulfillment concept in a way as well. Maybe some of these things are archetypes rather than events: Archetype - Wikipedia

Ezekiel 28 New King James Version (NKJV)
28 The word of the Lord came to me again, saying, 2 “Son of man, say to the prince of Tyre, ‘Thus says the Lord God:

“Because your heart is lifted up,
And you say, ‘I am a god,
I sit in the seat of gods,
In the midst of the seas,’
Yet you are a man, and not a god,
Though you set your heart as the heart of a god
3 (Behold, you are wiser than Daniel!
There is no secret that can be hidden from you!
4 With your wisdom and your understanding
You have gained riches for yourself,
And gathered gold and silver into your treasuries;
5 By your great wisdom in trade you have increased your riches,
And your heart is lifted up because of your riches),”

6 ‘Therefore thus says the Lord God:

“Because you have set your heart as the heart of a god,
7 Behold, therefore, I will bring strangers against you,
The most terrible of the nations;
And they shall draw their swords against the beauty of your wisdom,
And defile your splendor.
8 They shall throw you down into the Pit,
And you shall die the death of the slain
In the midst of the seas.

9 “Will you still say before him who slays you,
‘I am a god’?
But you shall be a man, and not a god,
In the hand of him who slays you.
10 You shall die the death of the uncircumcised
By the hand of aliens;
For I have spoken,” says the Lord God.’ ”

11 Moreover the word of the Lord came to me, saying, 12 “Son of man, take up a lamentation for the king of Tyre, and say to him, ‘Thus says the Lord God:

“You were the seal of perfection,
Full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.
13 You were in Eden, the garden of God;
Every precious stone was your covering:
The sardius, topaz, and diamond,
Beryl, onyx, and jasper,
Sapphire, turquoise, and emerald with gold.
The workmanship of your timbrels and pipes
Was prepared for you on the day you were created.

14 “You were the anointed cherub who covers;
I established you;
You were on the holy mountain of God;
You walked back and forth in the midst of fiery stones.
15 You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created,
Till iniquity was found in you.

16 “By the abundance of your trading
You became filled with violence within,
And you sinned;
Therefore I cast you as a profane thing
Out of the mountain of God;
And I destroyed you, O covering cherub,
From the midst of the fiery stones.

17 “Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty;
You corrupted your wisdom for the sake of your splendor;
I cast you to the ground,
I laid you before kings,
That they might gaze at you.

18 “You defiled your sanctuaries
By the multitude of your iniquities,
By the iniquity of your trading;
Therefore I brought fire from your midst;
It devoured you,
And I turned you to ashes upon the earth
In the sight of all who saw you.
19 All who knew you among the peoples are astonished at you;
You have become a horror,
And shall be no more forever.” ’ ”

20 Then the word of the Lord came to me, saying, 21 “Son of man, set your face toward Sidon, and prophesy against her, 22 and say, ‘Thus says the Lord God:

“Behold, I am against you, O Sidon;
I will be glorified in your midst;
And they shall know that I am the Lord,
When I execute judgments in her and am hallowed in her.
23 For I will send pestilence upon her,
And blood in her streets;
The wounded shall be judged in her midst
By the sword against her on every side;
Then they shall know that I am the Lord.

24 “And there shall no longer be a pricking brier or a painful thorn for the house of Israel from among all who are around them, who despise them. Then they shall know that I am the Lord God.”

25 ‘Thus says the Lord God: “When I have gathered the house of Israel from the peoples among whom they are scattered, and am hallowed in them in the sight of the Gentiles, then they will dwell in their own land which I gave to My servant Jacob. 26 And they will dwell safely there, build houses, and plant vineyards; yes, they will dwell securely, when I execute judgments on all those around them who despise them. Then they shall know that I am the Lord their God.” ’ ”
 
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1 John 4:1

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Psalm 18:7
"Then the earth shook and trembled; the foundations also of the hills moved and were shaken, because he was wroth.
Then the earth shook and trembled,.... As it did quickly after Christ called upon the Lord, and cried to his God upon the cross, Matthew 27:50; and so some time after, when his people were praying together, the place where they were assembled was shaken, Acts 4:31; as a token of God's presence being with them: and the shaking and trembling of the earth is often used as a symbol of the presence of God, and of the greatness of his majesty; as when he brought the children of Israel through the Red sea, went before them in the wilderness, and descended on Mount Sinai, which mountain then moved and quaked exceedingly; see Psalm 104:32; and it is easy to observe, that in this, and other parts of this majestic account of the appearance of God on the behalf of the person the subject of this psalm, and against his enemies, there are manifest allusions to the giving of the law on Mount Sinai; though it may be this shaking of the earth, and what follows, are to be understood in a figurative sense;"
Psalm 18 Gill's Exposition
 
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