theoretical Ex Cathedra

[ScottBot]

These do!

Psalm 19:7-11

7 The law of the LORD is perfect,
reviving the soul.
The statutes of the LORD are trustworthy,
making wise the simple.
8 The precepts of the LORD are right,
giving joy to the heart.
The commands of the LORD are radiant,
giving light to the eyes.
9 The fear of the LORD is pure,
enduring forever.
The ordinances of the LORD are sure
and altogether righteous.
10 They are more precious than gold,
than much pure gold;
they are sweeter than honey,
than honey from the comb.
11 By them is your servant warned;
in keeping them there is great reward.

http://www.biblegateway.com/bg_vers...blegateway.com/bg_versions/bgclick.php?what=2

2 Timothy 3:15-17

15and how from infancy you have known the holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. 16All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

You are still speaking about the importance and essentiality of Scripture. I see nothing about the sufficiency of it.

 

[Tonks]

Since the Bible apparently now self-actualizes please show me where it states:

I am sufficient. Full Stop.

There is that little bit about holding fast to words and epistles....always seems to be ignored in this debate.

 

[ScottBot]

Since the Bible apparently now self-actualizes please show me where it states:

I am sufficient. Full Stop.

There is that little bit about holding fast to words and epistles....always seems to be ignored in this debate.

It was only important to do that until the bible was printed. Feel free to ignore that part (or any other parts you feel sticky or complicated).

 

[Uphill Battle]

Jesus, "Be perfect, even as your Father in heaven is perfect."

So, Jesus gave us an unobtainable goal?

What about, "For men, it is impossible, but with God, all things are possible."

yes, Jesus gave us a goal that is unattainable on this earth. He also said that if our Piety didn't far surpass that of the scribes and pharisees, that we couldn't make it to heaven. The Goal of perfection is a journey on this earth, the destination is in the next.

There are MANY, who have achieved perfection. This is our purpose in life, communion with God. I met one such man several years ago.

Love,
Christina

I'd love to see how they measure up to perfection!

Who did the Church get the mandate to teach from?

(its at the end of the Gospel of Matthew, in case you're looking)

interesting.... except that that fails on two points.

1) Jesus said All authority in Heaven and eart has been given to ME. (not them, him.)
2) There is no proof whatsoever that many of the doctines of the RCC were "always taught." Most of the ones that have been taken issue with, crop up after 300 AD. Doesn't look like an "always taught."
oh, and I forgot one. so make the list 3. Nowhere does Jesus institute one earthly orginization as an authority over all Christendom. I know which passage you will point to, but it simply doesn't say what you claim it does.

 

[ScottBot]

yes, Jesus gave us a goal that is unattainable on this earth. He also said that if our Piety didn't far surpass that of the scribes and pharisees, that we couldn't make it to heaven. The Goal of perfection is a journey on this earth, the destination is in the next.

I'd love to see how they measure up to perfection!

interesting.... except that that fails on two points.

1) Jesus said All authority in Heaven and eart has been given to ME. (not them, him.)
2) There is no proof whatsoever that many of the doctines of the RCC were "always taught." Most of the ones that have been taken issue with, crop up after 300 AD. Doesn't look like an "always taught."
oh, and I forgot one. so make the list 3. Nowhere does Jesus institute one earthly orginization as an authority over all Christendom. I know which passage you will point to, but it simply doesn't say what you claim it does.

You don't see it, I do. Paradigms are funny things, you know.

 

[Uphill Battle]

You don't see it, I do. Paradigms are funny things, you know.

you got that on cut and paste, Scot?

 

[Tonks]

It was only important to do that until the bible was printed. Feel free to ignore that part (or any other parts you feel sticky or complicated).

I forgot that Catholics don't read the Bible. If we paid more attention to Sacred Scripture I'm sure we'd figure it out.

 

[sunlover1]

You are still speaking about the importance and essentiality of Scripture. I see nothing about the sufficiency of it.

Sufficient for what?

 

[ScottBot]

you got that on cut and paste, Scot?

Nah, it type it in from scratch just for you....

 

[ScottBot]

Sufficient for what?

Sufficient, requiring nothing else.

In a human, is breathing important? Is breathing essential? Can life happen without breathing?

 

[simonthezealot]

Sufficient, requiring nothing else.

In a human, is breathing important? Is breathing essential? Can life happen without breathing?

The knowledge contained within is all that is required unto salvation. (maybe not in your opinion, but certainly in mine!)

 

[Asinner]

I'd love to see how they measure up to perfection!

Some attained such Divine Grace in their lifetime that after death, their bodies did not decay. Instead, from their flesh poured sweet myrh and fragrance.

Their lives attest to the Grace they received. Today, for example, one of the saints we remember is Saint Cuthbert the Wonderworker, Bishop of Lindisfarne. Here is his reading.

Saint Cuthbert was born in Britain about the year 635, and became a monk in his youth at the monastery of Melrose by the River Tweed. After many years of struggle as a true priest of Christ, in the service both of his own brethren and of the neglected Christians of isolated country villages, he became a solitary on Farne Island in 676. After eight years as a hermit, he was constrained to leave his quiet to become Bishop of Lindisfarne, in which office he served for almost two years. He returned to his hermitage two months before he reposed in peace in 687. Because of the miracles he wrought both during his life and at his tomb after his death, he is called the "Wonderworker of Britain." The whole English people honoured him, and kings were both benefactors to his shrine and suppliants of his prayers. Eleven years after his death, his holy relics were revealed to be incorrupt; when his body was translated from Lindisfarne to Durham Cathedral in August of 1104, his body was still found to be untouched by decay, giving off "an odour of sweetest fragrancy," and "from the flexibility of its joints representing a person asleep rather than dead." Finally, when the most impious Henry VIII desecrated his shrine, opening it to despoil it of its valuables, his body was again found incorrupt, and was buried in 1542. It is believed that after this the holy relics of Saint Cuthbert were hidden to preserve them from further desecration.


He is only one example.

Love,
Christina

 

[Robskiwarrior]

If the Pope stepped up to a microphone and announced to the world, "To be saved, you must wear a pink hat at all times." there would be some gullible enough to believe it. but since many of us realize that this has never been a constant teaching of the Church, we would likely respond with "G'on, ya big dope." (Well actually, we would pray that the Pontiff regained his sanity.)

hehe a nice summing up there, and a great mental image!

 

[ScottBot]

The knowledge contained within is all that is required unto salvation. (maybe not in your opinion, but certainly in mine!)

To this I agree. However, since the knowledge does not extract itself infallibly from the pages of Scripture, then an authoritative interpreter is required. An interpreter to tell us what the words of Scripture mean in their proper context, and authoritative so that we don't have hundreds of little interpeters argueing about what the real intended meaning of Scripture is. You know, kinda sorta like what happens here hundreds of times every day....

 

[simonthezealot]

To this I agree. However, since the knowledge does not extract itself infallibly from the pages of Scripture, then an authoritative interpreter is required. An interpreter to tell us what the words of Scripture mean in their proper context, and authoritative so that we don't have hundreds of little interpeters argueing about what the real intended meaning of Scripture is. You know, kinda sorta like what happens here hundreds of times every day....

You don't need an authoritive interpreter...
....What you dig out is YOURS to KEEP forever!

What would make a group of guys any more authoritive being guided by the HS than myself being born again and having the indwelling of the Holy Spirit to guide me?

 

[simonthezealot]

To this I agree. However, since the knowledge does not extract itself infallibly from the pages of Scripture, then an authoritative interpreter is required. An interpreter to tell us what the words of Scripture mean in their proper context, and authoritative so that we don't have hundreds of little interpeters argueing about what the real intended meaning of Scripture is. You know, kinda sorta like what happens here hundreds of times every day....

One wrong interpreter for all followers sounds much more devastating... than a bunch of individual interpreters whom mostly have it right!
THATS HOW I SEE IT!!!

 

[Uphill Battle]

Some attained such Divine Grace in their lifetime that after death, their bodies did not decay. Instead, from their flesh poured sweet myrh and fragrance.

Their lives attest to the Grace they received. Today, for example, one of the saints we remember is Saint Cuthbert the Wonderworker, Bishop of Lindisfarne. Here is his reading.

Saint Cuthbert was born in Britain about the year 635, and became a monk in his youth at the monastery of Melrose by the River Tweed. After many years of struggle as a true priest of Christ, in the service both of his own brethren and of the neglected Christians of isolated country villages, he became a solitary on Farne Island in 676. After eight years as a hermit, he was constrained to leave his quiet to become Bishop of Lindisfarne, in which office he served for almost two years. He returned to his hermitage two months before he reposed in peace in 687. Because of the miracles he wrought both during his life and at his tomb after his death, he is called the "Wonderworker of Britain." The whole English people honoured him, and kings were both benefactors to his shrine and suppliants of his prayers. Eleven years after his death, his holy relics were revealed to be incorrupt; when his body was translated from Lindisfarne to Durham Cathedral in August of 1104, his body was still found to be untouched by decay, giving off "an odour of sweetest fragrancy," and "from the flexibility of its joints representing a person asleep rather than dead." Finally, when the most impious Henry VIII desecrated his shrine, opening it to despoil it of its valuables, his body was again found incorrupt, and was buried in 1542. It is believed that after this the holy relics of Saint Cuthbert were hidden to preserve them from further desecration.


He is only one example.

Love,
Christina

how is this sort of thing verified?

It's very weird to me. On surface value, it looks like things being attributed to be more like Christ, regardless of whether or not it's true.

 

[ScottBot]

You don't need an authoritive interpreter...
....What you dig out is YOURS to KEEP forever!

What would make a group of guys any more authoritive being guided by the HS than myself being born again and having the indwelling of the Holy Spirit to guide me?

You can't be serious can you? I just look at the myriad of conflicting teachings in "Christianity" and understand the flaw in your premise. Jesus never endorsed unfettered sprituality. He instructed His church to go out, make disciples and teach what He commanded. Not what He recommended, or what He thought was a pretty neat idea. Christ gave commandments and entrusted their propagation to the Church.

 

[ScottBot]

One wrong interpreter for all followers sounds much more devastating... than a bunch of individual interpreters whom mostly have it right!
THATS HOW I SEE IT!!!

Of course you do. How every democratic.

 

[ScottBot]

how is this sort of thing verified?

It's very weird to me. On surface value, it looks like things being attributed to be more like Christ, regardless of whether or not it's true.

[bible]hebrews 11:1[/bible]