Theology behind prepping and even investment in general

[OldWiseGuy]

If you have serious objections to those scriptures about being unselfish, I can easily quote a hundred more. Is that really the battle you are choosing?

You misquoted and misapplied those scriptures. I corrected you.

 

[createdtoworship]

I have a 60/40 portfolio. I know a downturn might happen. It scares me. I might be proud of my stocks, then they might sell off. The Japanese stock market peaked in 1990 and has not regained its 1990 high since then, although they paid dividends nearly 30 yrs.

On the other hand, there was 400% inflation in Venezuela. Their stock market went up 400% too.

When you day trade, you have to pay the market maker’s spread. It is like a casino. It might be better to buy CD’s than day trade. If your trading is that bad, find some other way to spend your money. Opening a soup kitchen for the poor might be a better waste of money.

If you sell your house and have to pay RV park rent, remember they will want to raise the rent every chance they get. Better a double wide mobile home than a San Francisco condo with taxes, insurance and HOA fees. People were complaining about $10,000 a year property taxes in high tax areas.

Good post, very honest. I was a good day trader. I started with 20,000 and turned it into nearly three hundred thousand in about 3 months.

I was using a software on my phone that charted it perfectly so I could see the change in real time on the minute chart. I would make half my trades at a loss, but I would lose less than a quarter percent at each loss, during my gains, they would be 1,2,3 percent. So I averaged ahead. Some days I made twenty to thirty percent, no options just stocks. But it got to me, I had a group of people I networked with, I got thousands of followers on financial blogs. Again I thought I Was all the rave. Then I realized at the end. It was all just simulator. It was all a lie. I was playing on a stock trainer app, and yes I had made a killing. But as soon as I was prideful, the apps all changed, and I could never get it to work the same. I realized that no investment is safe. Yes a CD may give you interest. But if you are not making at least thirty percent in ten years, you are behind due to inflation being nearly three percent a year. That throws out nearly all bonds. I have lots of good recommendations, but sometimes I question if God wants people to know them. It could curse them, like it cursed me. I was not even dealing with real money and I had pride already. Imagine if God gave me a nice return in the real market. I could completely lose the faith outright. The Bible says this:
Two things I request of You
(Deprive me not before I die):
Pro 30:8

Remove falsehood and lies far from me;
Give me neither poverty nor riches—
Feed me with the food allotted to me;
Pro 30:9

Lest I be full and deny You,
And say, “Who is the LORD?”
Or lest I be poor and steal,
And profane the name of my God.
And that is my life verse right now. Simply to get out of debt and to pay for my kids college. That is my short term goal. I can care less what is in my retirement, although I am sure God will have a nice nest egg if I just let it sit. Right now I have my retirement in healthcare sector, black rock mutual funds. When market takes a dump I will throw it either into bonds or a cash investment. Cash CIP investments seem to do better than bonds in a financial downturn as people liquidate investments into a denomination of cash. But as soon as the cash investments start going down you watch volitility and see if recession is over. As soon as some money is freed up in the next few weeks gold will do it's yearly low (it has a low around thankgsiving to christmas every year, and is the perfect time to add to gold investment). In venezuela in 2018, 1.5 grams of gold was selling for two months wages. Do the math. That means that gold holds it's value in a economic downturn. I don't think that will happen this time around, I think we have enough credit to print ourselves out of the next recession, but in fifteen years that may not be the case. I like holding .5 gram rounds from apmex.com. That is the smallest denomination of bullion i could find. See if your 1.5 grams turns into two months wages, that means a half gram could pay for roughly two or three weeks wages. Realize this was a month before venezeula reset their fiat money to the gold value. Gold at that point went up 2000 times. You heard that correct. 2000 times. So if 1.5 grams would pay for two months wages, after the reset, 1.5 grams could buy a house. That is why people don't need much insurace in gold. less than ten thousand for sure. If you are bullish the economy, then get 1 ounce gold bars or rounds, certified by an assayer. IF you are bearish the economy and think it could fail any moment, get the .5 gram rounds. The smaller denominations are easier to pawn in a venezuela situation. a one ounce coin would be worth so much that no one could literally buy it off of you, or threaten your life for it. Again. I have some good ideas. I don't know how much I will do. Or what my investments will be, or if I will have any money in the fiat system at all. I could just do realestate. It's completely up to God. Again I can't recommend enough, praying with fleeces. Using the urrim and the thumin to make all of your life choices. However if you are prideful, or idolotrous with your investments, if you think you are better than other people. Don't worry God will humble you. There are a few things the Lord hates, one is a proud look of an arrogant person. God knows that all blessings come from Him, so for us to think we did it is quite insulting.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Yes a CD may give you interest. But if you are not making at least thirty percent in ten years, you are behind due to inflation being nearly three percent a year.

That depends on how you spend. Inflation doesn't affect all purchases, and can be mitigated in other ways.

 

[createdtoworship]

You misquoted and misapplied those scriptures. I corrected you.

Sir I disagree with that. you said that because they were sued that somehow it was not relating to unselfishness. The fact they were sued matters not. The point is if someone needs something, and you have it in your power to give it, you do so. Or the God of that poor person will cry out to God against you.

 

[createdtoworship]

That depends on how you spend. Inflation doesn't affect all purchases, and can be mitigated in other ways.

Any investment in fiat money investments will be affected negatively by inflation seeing that they are denominated in cash (which inflates at three percent per year). So unless you can make four percent or great, in the long run you will be down. I know this is not the best message, but I though you should know. Gold and other commodities are not denominated in cash, if you own the actual product, realestate would not be affected by inflation (as much). But I could be wrong about the realestate because they would be valued in dollars. Gold on the other hand does better when inflation goes up.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Yes thats good for you. But me being in your exact same situation would not necessarily be good for me. The only reason why you are successful is that God has made you so. My pride had cursed my investments, there is literally no hedge against God's curse. I have some good ideas that if others wanted to use they could make a lot of money, but me myself. It does not work that way. You have to be humble enough to realize God is doing it. And because of my short term memory lapses, I simply forget the God part and cling to how awesome I am. Which is dumb. That is why I have literally a whole document that I have to read regularly that shows me my short comings, But if you can make it work for you that is awesome. But saying to someone that God wants you to be financially free. Well that is not necessarily accurate. I know that goes against what you believe and against your business, but I am talking about the Bible. The Bible itself says to get out of debt. All kinds of debt. It never commands us to be rich however. You can be debt free and still living paycheck to paycheck. It's more a discipline thing than it is a money thing.

Wealth should be the natural result of hard work, patience, and prudence (and favorable markets).

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Sir I disagree with that. you said that because they were sued that somehow it was not relating to unselfishness. The fact they were sued matters not. The point is if someone needs something, and you have it in your power to give it, you do so. Or the God of that poor person will cry out to God against you and you will be cursed.

Roman soldiers could demand that a vassal carry his shield and weapons up to a distance of a mile. Cheerfully carrying them farther changes the relationship between the two. They could also lawfully strike a vassal, for no reason.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Any investment in fiat money investments will be affected negatively by inflation seeing that they are denominated in cash (which inflates at three percent per year). So unless you can make four percent or great, in the long run you will be down. I know this is not the best message, but I though you should know. Gold and other commodities are not denominated in cash, if you own the actual product, realestate would not be affected by inflation (as much). But I could be wrong about the realestate because they would be valued in dollars. Gold on the other hand does better when inflation goes up.

I earn enough interest to mitigate inflation and I save enough so earning interest above the inflation rate isn't too important to me. I have a unique way of viewing work and finances and it works very well for me.

 

[dqhall]

Good post, very honest. I was a good day trader. I started with 20,000 and turned it into nearly three hundred thousand in about 3 months.
View attachment 267394

I was using a software on my phone that charted it perfectly so I could see the change in real time on the minute chart. I would make half my trades at a loss, but I would lose less than a quarter percent at each loss, during my gains, they would be 1,2,3 percent. So I averaged ahead. Some days I made twenty to thirty percent, no options just stocks. But it got to me, I had a group of people I networked with, I got thousands of followers on financial blogs. Again I thought I Was all the rave. Then I realized at the end. It was all just simulator. It was all a lie. I was playing on a stock trainer app, and yes I had made a killing. But as soon as I was prideful, the apps all changed, and I could never get it to work the same. I realized that no investment is safe. Yes a CD may give you interest. But if you are not making at least thirty percent in ten years, you are behind due to inflation being nearly three percent a year. That throws out nearly all bonds. I have lots of good recommendations, but sometimes I question if God wants people to know them. It could curse them, like it cursed me. I was not even dealing with real money and I had pride already. Imagine if God gave me a nice return in the real market. I could completely lose the faith outright. The Bible says this:
Two things I request of You
(Deprive me not before I die):
Pro 30:8

Remove falsehood and lies far from me;
Give me neither poverty nor riches—
Feed me with the food allotted to me;
Pro 30:9

Lest I be full and deny You,
And say, “Who is the LORD?”
Or lest I be poor and steal,
And profane the name of my God.
And that is my life verse right now. Simply to get out of debt and to pay for my kids college. That is my short term goal. I can care less what is in my retirement, although I am sure God will have a nice nest egg if I just let it sit. Right now I have my retirement in healthcare sector, black rock mutual funds. When market takes a dump I will throw it either into bonds or a cash investment. Cash CIP investments seem to do better than bonds in a financial downturn as people liquidate investments into a denomination of cash. But as soon as the cash investments start going down you watch volitility and see if recession is over. As soon as some money is freed up in the next few weeks gold will do it's yearly low (it has a low around thankgsiving to christmas every year, and is the perfect time to add to gold investment). In venezuela in 2018, 1.5 grams of gold was selling for two months wages. Do the math. That means that gold holds it's value in a economic downturn. I don't think that will happen this time around, I think we have enough credit to print ourselves out of the next recession, but in fifteen years that may not be the case. I like holding .5 gram rounds from apmex.com. That is the smallest denomination of bullion i could find. See if your 1.5 grams turns into two months wages, that means a half gram could pay for roughly two or three weeks wages. Realize this was a month before venezeula reset their fiat money to the gold value. Gold at that point went up 2000 times. You heard that correct. 2000 times. So if 1.5 grams would pay for two months wages, after the reset, 1.5 grams could buy a house. That is why people don't need much insurace in gold. less than ten thousand for sure. If you are bullish the economy, then get 1 ounce gold bars or rounds, certified by an assayer. IF you are bearish the economy and think it could fail any moment, get the .5 gram rounds. The smaller denominations are easier to pawn in a venezuela situation. a one ounce coin would be worth so much that no one could literally buy it off of you, or threaten your life for it. Again. I have some good ideas. I don't know how much I will do. Or what my investments will be, or if I will have any money in the fiat system at all. I could just do realestate. It's completely up to God. Again I can't recommend enough, praying with fleeces. Using the urrim and the thumin to make all of your life choices. However if you are prideful, or idolotrous with your investments, if you think you are better than other people. Don't worry God will humble you. There are a few things the Lord hates, one is a proud look of an arrogant person. God knows that all blessings come from Him, so for us to think we did it is quite insulting.

I was losing in stocks as the market started to dive. I took my remainder out of the market in 2000-2001 and bought a new car and worked to pay off debt.

Later I tried again and made profits on railroad stock, pipeline MLP, and financial stocks. I bought refinery bonds paying 5-6% and telephone co. bonds YTM above 5%. I held bonds long term rarely trading them. Am holding S&P 500 index shares, individual stocks etc. I have a CPA to do my tax return.

Perhaps you should pay off debts rather than lose in the market.

 

[createdtoworship]

Wealth should be the natural result of hard work, patience, and prudence (and favorable markets).

I am afraid it is not that simple. See God's will is ultimately what is the deciding factor.

 

[createdtoworship]

I was losing in stocks as the market started to dive. I took my remainder out of the market in 2000-2001 and bought a new car and worked to pay off debt.

Later I tried again and made profits on railroad stock, pipeline MLP, and financial stocks. I bought refinery bonds paying 5-6% and telephone co. bonds YTM above 5%. I held bonds long term rarely trading them. Am holding S&P 500 index shares, individual stocks etc. I have a CPA to do my tax return.

Perhaps you should pay off debts rather than lose in the market.

YES! being rich is not a commandment. sometimes wealth can actually curse you. We assume that God desires all to be healthy wealthy and wise. But it's not that straight forward. See God knows that if we didn't cry out to him regularly for bread, we may never cry out to Him at all. Yes, getting out of debt is a good thing. Like I said in my original post, we had an offer on our house, nearly double it's value. This would give us so much equity that we could buy another house outright, newer cars, and have a fund for investing that I have never had before. But I assumed God would just want me to put it all in the markets and that may not be His will at all. Another investment is to buy a solar panel for your house, go off grid. Buy a well in your back yard. Go off city electricity and water. I am not saying that that is what God wants, one would have to pray about it. But ultimately debt itself, bills, credit cards, and financing all uses compound interest against you. I could post a calculator on the power of compound interest but I won't. Needless to say if I God wanted me rich, I would be a billionaire by now, by the laws of compound interest. God didn't want it. And I am ok with that. Most likely it was my thorn in the flesh, my pride. But I am sort of happy that I don't have to fear for the future. I remember having sleepless nights worrying about if a stock would fall overnight. Now I don't need to worry about that. Again not saying that God does not want me in the markets when we get our Money, but not saying that stocks is definitely his will either. On the other hand, something can fall through on the house, and I would just live where I am. All of that I am good with. I can be debased, and know how to abound. "I know both how to be abased, and I know how to abound: every where and in all things I am instructed both to be full and to be hungry, both to abound and to suffer need."
Phillipians 4:12

 

[createdtoworship]

duplicate

 

[createdtoworship]

I was losing in stocks as the market started to dive. I took my remainder out of the market in 2000-2001 and bought a new car and worked to pay off debt.

Later I tried again and made profits on railroad stock, pipeline MLP, and financial stocks. I bought refinery bonds paying 5-6% and telephone co. bonds YTM above 5%. I held bonds long term rarely trading them. Am holding S&P 500 index shares, individual stocks etc. I have a CPA to do my tax return.

Perhaps you should pay off debts rather than lose in the market.

also, YES! bonds historically paid more yield than inflation rates but in last few years especially when the yield curves have inverted, meaning short term bonds offering more yield than long term. They call it the bond yield crisis I believe. But right now as many countries are exiting american government debt by the billions every year, tapering their holdings and typically buying something like Gold. Japan, Russia etc. If would be wise to look for other long term solutions other than bonds, going into the future. Don't get me wrong, bonds are a good hedge. Especially in bankruptcy of a broker for instance. If a bond holder goes bankrupts, the holders of those bonds are paid first. However if a stock company goes bankrupt you are not insured against loss. Also FDIC and SPIC I think are insurance against banks and brokers respectively. If a stock market crash does not bankrupt your general broker then you don't get those insurance payouts. Stock bankruptsy is different than broker bankruptsy.

Right now bonds are not paying enough to counter inflation:

ten years ago this was not the case..

this is a few years old, it's even less as of this year, in august the yield curves inverted.

The only option is to use high yield bonds, which are like risky stocks and do not offer the same protection as your typical bonds, I would research high yield bonds, and the problems with them. Investment grade bonds may be ok, not sure about them, but junk bonds they call it have a risk of bankruptsy. See coporations have triple the debt they had in 2008 right now. So if you are buying a corporate bond with a higher yield you risk default on that loan. yes corporations must pay bond holders first, but there is no guarantee. So junk bonds are better than stocks in a down turn. But me personally, I would stay out of corporate debt. But here is more info on high yield bond mutual funds,

https://money.usnews.com/funds/mutual-funds/rankings/high-yield-bond

here is a video on junk bonds:

it all boils down to if the high yield bond has a A rating or higher AAA. With standard and poors investment grading services. I would not buy into B or lower. D is the worst. Junk bonds typically have lower ratings and have less ability to pay back bond holders, and this is why they get a lower rating. so they are not as secure.

Investment grade bonds look more promising and have a higher rating:

Top 3 Investment-Grade Corporate Bond ETFs

 

[OldWiseGuy]

I am afraid it is not that simple. See God's will is ultimately what is the deciding factor.

I ask God to bless my efforts. So far He has.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

"I know both how to be abased, and I know how to abound: every where and in all things I am instructed both to be full and to be hungry, both to abound and to suffer need."
Phillipians 4:12

I like this. I have been in need much more than I have abounded. Happily I'm my abounding years.

 

[createdtoworship]

I ask God to bless my efforts. So far He has.

That is good. But again the christian life is not a guarantee of success. If that was the case, people would be christian simply for the perks.

"In the world you will have tribulation. But take heart; I have overcome the world.” John 16:33

 

[createdtoworship]

I like this. I have been in need much more than I have abounded. Happily I'm my abounding years.

God does bless. And again I made 300,000 in 65 days day trading. I got cocky. And lost it all. God ultimately cares more about our heart than about our finances. See God was showing me that the last five years of my very best, He brought us more equity in one day that I did in five years. The only difference in my life was I started fasting and praying. I was worried for our finances so I started fasting and praying, and the someone walked up to our house literally and said I want to pay double for your house, I grew up here. That is something only God can do. There is no way I can look at that situation and say, boy I did that investment well. I really came through with that trade. No. Say I subscribed to the best funds in the world. The amount of upfront cost that we had, there is no way that I could have gained that much return in that little of time. It was a miracle. And that is what I am saying. Don't rely on egypt. Yes you can be wise. But without God, even bonds will fail. Even investment grade bonds will fail. See they are an A rating, but still that does not mean that if they went insolvent, that they would be able to pay bond holders, that is just a study done by an external company. There is no evidence that those bonds would be paid. Even in treasury bonds, we don't know that the government would find it necessary to print the money to pay bond holders, should the economy fail. We don't know the situation. What I am saying is that even safe investments are not safe. God is who orchestrates whether we make it or not. For three months I was probably the best stock trader I know of. Ask anyone and I would tell you. In 2015 I told everyone to buy facebook stock. It did and still does very very well. I made other people very wealthy but me myself. That was not my portion. I sent out alerts all along, telling people how to invest, and they did really well. But me myself, I could not get it to work for me. Because I was plagued with pride. And I dont' even know if it is God's will for me to be well off. As I have posted repeatedly, if I had all my needs taken care of there is no guarantee I would stay a christian at all. I could like the prodigal son, spend my inheritance on worldly things.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

God does bless. And again I made 300,000 in 65 days day trading. I got cocky. And lost it all. God ultimately cares more about our heart than about our finances. See God was showing me that the last five years of my very best, He brought us more equity in one day that I did in five years. The only difference in my life was I started fasting and praying. I was worried for our finances so I started fasting and praying, and the someone walked up to our house literally and said I want to pay double for your house, I grew up here. That is something only God can do. There is no way I can look at that situation and say, boy I did that investment well. I really came through with that trade. No. Say I subscribed to the best funds in the world. The amount of upfront cost that we had, there is no way that I could have gained that much return in that little of time. It was a miracle. And that is what I am saying. Don't rely on egypt. Yes you can be wise. But without God, even bonds will fail. Even investment grade bonds will fail. See they are an A rating, but still that does not mean that if they went insolvent, that they would be able to pay bond holders, that is just a study done by an external company. There is no evidence that those bonds would be paid. Even in treasury bonds, we don't know that the government would find it necessary to print the money to pay bond holders, should the economy fail. We don't know the situation. What I am saying is that even safe investments are not safe. God is who orchestrates whether we make it or not. For three months I was probably the best stock trader I know of. Ask anyone and I would tell you. In 2015 I told everyone to buy facebook stock. It did and still does very very well. I made other people very wealthy but me myself. That was not my portion. I sent out alerts all along, telling people how to invest, and they did really well. But me myself, I could not get it to work for me. Because I was plagued with pride. And I dont' even know if it is God's will for me to be well off. As I have posted repeatedly, if I had all my needs taken care of there is no guarantee I would stay a christian at all. I could like the prodigal son, spend my inheritance on worldly things.

I was scared away from the stock market early on when a friend lost all he had invested. My brother was invested conservatively but still lost one-third when the housing bubble burst. I did buy an indexed bond fund but it drove me nuts worrying about it so I sold it. I invest only in cd's (I have a ladder of sorts, one paying 3%, another 3.5%, others in the 2.5% range) and am happy. At my age I can't risk anything so FDIC and NCUA insured cd's work for me.

 

[createdtoworship]

I was scared away from the stock market early on when a friend lost all he had invested. My brother was invested conservatively but still lost one-third when the housing bubble burst. I did buy an indexed bond fund but it drove me nuts worrying about it so I sold it. I invest only in cd's (I have a ladder of sorts, one paying 3%, another 3.5%, others in the 2.5% range) and am happy. At my age I can't risk anything so FDIC and NCUA insured cd's work for me.

Yeah, you can lose everything in the markets. But you can lose everything even if you are not in the market at all. Just this month houses flooded all over the country. They lost everything. I heard recently that flood insurance got so expensive that many are moving out of the flood plains. Things happen. Remember Job? He lost everything, and He made all the right decisions for most of His life. What I am saying is that not everyone will have riches. The Bible says the poor you will have with you always, that means that some will never be rich. That is their portion. And to say to the poor man that God has a better will for your life, may not be accurate. God may. But God may not. They may be poor because of some tribulation they are going through, some test. A test that they have not passed. And to say they are lacking in faith to name it and claim wealth, is not biblical. I am not saying anyone here is saying that, I am just saying that it is a common view point. It's called word faith teaching, and the prosperity gospel.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Yeah, you can lose everything in the markets. But you can lose everything even if you are not in the market at all. Just this month houses flooded all over the country. They lost everything. I heard recently that flood insurance got so expensive that many are moving out of the flood plains. Things happen. Remember Job? He lost everything, and He made all the right decisions for most of His life. What I am saying is that not everyone will have riches. The Bible says the poor you will have with you always, that means that some will never be rich. That is their portion. And to say to the poor man that God has a better will for your life, may not be accurate. God may. But God may not. They may be poor because of some tribulation they are going through, some test. A test that they have not passed. And to say they are lacking in faith to name it and claim wealth, is not biblical. I am not saying anyone here is saying that, I am just saying that it is a common view point. It's called word faith teaching, and the prosperity gospel.

I think Jesus meant the poor as a class, not that certain people would remain poor all their lives. We see this today as people go into and out of poverty. The poor remain but their names and faces change.