Theologies

[dreadnought]

It seems to me most people abide by one of these theologies:

1. The Lord wants us to suffer for no reason.
2. The Lord doesn't care what we do - we're all going to heaven.
3. The Lord wants us to be happy, and that means obeying his commandments, since the commandments keep us out of trouble, if we obey them.

What do you think?

 

[Abaxvahl]

It seems to me most people abide by one of these theologies:

1. The Lord wants us to suffer for no reason.
2. The Lord doesn't care what we do - we're all going to heaven.
3. The Lord wants us to be happy, and that means obeying his commandments, since the commandments keep us out of trouble, if we obey them.

What do you think?

More option three, although I do not think happiness is a guaranteed, or particularly desired thing, in this life (in the sense of being pleased with your material states). It will be in the next one, and to get there means following His commands which keep us out of trouble with Him.

 

[Doug Melven]

It seems to me most people abide by one of these theologies:

1. The Lord wants us to suffer for no reason.
2. The Lord doesn't care what we do - we're all going to heaven.
3. The Lord wants us to be happy, and that means obeying his commandments, since the commandments keep us out of trouble, if we obey them.

What do you think?

Of the 3 choices the first 2 are just wrong.
Option 3 is close to being right.
The problem is the commands are not specified and most people will have a disagreement on which commands should be specified.
We have entire denominations who disagree on what they should be.
Some will say the 10 Commandments.
Some will say the 2 greatest commandments.
Others, like me, will say we are under the Law of the Spirit of life and we are to love God as He loved us and we are to love our neighbor as God loves us. This is far more sacrificial than loving our neighbor as our self and a command to love God with our all.

 

[dreadnought]

More option three, although I do not think happiness is a guaranteed, or particularly desired thing, in this life (in the sense of being pleased with your material states). It will be in the next one, and to get there means following His commands which keep us out of trouble with Him.

I think more people should choose number 3.

 

[dreadnought]

Of the 3 choices the first 2 are just wrong.
Option 3 is close to being right.
The problem is the commands are not specified and most people will have a disagreement on which commands should be specified.
We have entire denominations who disagree on what they should be.
Some will say the 10 Commandments.
Some will say the 2 greatest commandments.
Others, like me, will say we are under the Law of the Spirit of life and we are to love God as He loved us and we are to love our neighbor as God loves us. This is far more sacrificial than loving our neighbor as our self and a command to love God with our all.

Yes, there is some disagreement over what the commandments are. People who really want to know will figure it out, though.

 

[Shempster]

Looking back on my life, I will say that #3 is absolutely true and works. But in order to do this, you have to read exactly what Jesus said and do it. But other than that, living a life free of anxiety, fear, judgementalism, racism, sexism, ageism, hate, bitterness, lust, idolatry, cursing, etc....(I could go on and on) IS the result of following his commandments....and it is awesome.

Option 1 has some truth to it. God does allow us to suffer but there is a reason. 9 times out of 10 it is because we are not obeying him. So then it's our job to know his commandments and see where we are failing. I have seen numerous problems and sufferings vanish by doing that.

Option 2 is kind of out there. Only a selected few who follow Christian Universalism actually believe that.
I think that movie called THE SHACK was suggesting that everyone goes right away no matter what.
The bulk of Universalists believe that might be true, but it may take eons of time for every last one to eventually believe in him and agree to follow his commandments. That is sort of what Rev 22 pictures, doesn't it?
I am not saying which is right-I don't know but it is all very interesting to look into.

 

[1213]

It seems to me most people abide by one of these theologies:

1. The Lord wants us to suffer for no reason.
2. The Lord doesn't care what we do - we're all going to heaven.
3. The Lord wants us to be happy, and that means obeying his commandments, since the commandments keep us out of trouble, if we obey them.

What do you think?

I think number three is closest to the truth.

 

[dreadnought]

Looking back on my life, I will say that #3 is absolutely true and works. But in order to do this, you have to read exactly what Jesus said and do it. But other than that, living a life free of anxiety, fear, judgementalism, racism, sexism, ageism, hate, bitterness, lust, idolatry, cursing, etc....(I could go on and on) IS the result of following his commandments....and it is awesome.

Option 1 has some truth to it. God does allow us to suffer but there is a reason. 9 times out of 10 it is because we are not obeying him. So then it's our job to know his commandments and see where we are failing. I have seen numerous problems and sufferings vanish by doing that.

Option 2 is kind of out there. Only a selected few who follow Christian Universalism actually believe that.
I think that movie called THE SHACK was suggesting that everyone goes right away no matter what.
The bulk of Universalists believe that might be true, but it may take eons of time for every last one to eventually believe in him and agree to follow his commandments. That is sort of what Rev 22 pictures, doesn't it?
I am not saying which is right-I don't know but it is all very interesting to look into.

Yes, experience teaches me that #3 is correct. I think most people are reluctant to commit themselves to repentance, and are looking for an easier way. I think Matthew 4:17 is the clue:

From that time Jesus began to preach, saying, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." Matt 4:17 RSV

 

[dreadnought]

I think number three is closest to the truth.

Yes, I think so.

 

[bling]

It seems to me most people abide by one of these theologies:

1. The Lord wants us to suffer for no reason.
2. The Lord doesn't care what we do - we're all going to heaven.
3. The Lord wants us to be happy, and that means obeying his commandments, since the commandments keep us out of trouble, if we obey them.

What do you think?

None of the above.
The Lord wants all mature adults to fulfill their earthly objective and become like God Himself, but He is not going to force His help on us so He helps only those willing to accept His help.

 

[dreadnought]

None of the above.
The Lord wants all mature adults to fulfill their earthly objective and become like God Himself, but He is not going to force His help on us so He helps only those willing to accept His help.

What is your objection to #3?

 

[nonaeroterraqueous]

1. The Lord wants us to suffer for no reason.

I believe this is a misstatement of what is actually believed. There's always a reason. Even those who believe that people are predestined to Hell believe there's a reason. Suffering in this life is generally the result of sin. Suffering in the next life is directly the result of sin. No one suffers for no reason.

2. The Lord doesn't care what we do - we're all going to heaven.

Even universalists believe that the Lord cares what we do. They just don't believe it will keep people out of Heaven, ultimately. If you were honest with yourself, you would admit that even your own works are not the cause of your salvation.

3. The Lord wants us to be happy, and that means obeying his commandments, since the commandments keep us out of trouble, if we obey them.

The Lord does not primarily want us to be happy. He wants us to be obedient. It's not as though a man can gauge his obedience by measuring his happiness. I've known too many people who assume that happiness follows right Christian living, so they do what makes them happy, feel good about it, and live the life of a sewer rat. If the book of Job taught us anything, it's that holy living is the first priority, and happiness is an unearned gift from God, to which we are not entitled.

Like I've said before, God is the inventor of the food chain. One animal's blessing is another animal's curse. Happiness and suffering are not the end goal, but a means to an end. It is the behavior generally provoked by such things for which the feelings exist (to save your life, to feed your face, to defecate, to love...).

 

[dreadnought]

1. The Lord wants us to suffer for no reason.

I believe this is a misstatement of what is actually believed. There's always a reason. Even those who believe that people are predestined to Hell believe there's a reason. Suffering in this life is generally the result of sin. Suffering in the next life is directly the result of sin. No one suffers for no reason.

Yes, I agree that "suffering in this life is generally the result of sin." I think some people are of the opinion that we have to suffer whether we sin or not. We've all sinned.

 

[dreadnought]

2. The Lord doesn't care what we do - we're all going to heaven.

Even universalists believe that the Lord cares what we do. They just don't believe it will keep people out of Heaven, ultimately. If you were honest with yourself, you would admit that even your own works are not the cause of your salvation.

My experience was that when the Lord led me to repent of sins I was committing, my life had an indescribably beautiful transformation. Then I hear people say that it is impossible to repent of our sin, or that sin really isn't sin. So people can either repent of their sin, as the Lord commanded (Matt 4:17), or not, and experience the consequences of their decision.

 

[dreadnought]

3. The Lord wants us to be happy, and that means obeying his commandments, since the commandments keep us out of trouble, if we obey them.

The Lord does not primarily want us to be happy. He wants us to be obedient. It's not as though a man can gauge his obedience by measuring his happiness. I've known too many people who assume that happiness follows right Christian living, so they do what makes them happy, feel good about it, and live the life of a sewer rat. If the book of Job taught us anything, it's that holy living is the first priority, and happiness is an unearned gift from God, to which we are not entitled.

Like I've said before, God is the inventor of the food chain. One animal's blessing is another animal's curse. Happiness and suffering are not the end goal, but a means to an end. It is the behavior generally provoked by such things for which the feelings exist (to save your life, to feed your face, to defecate, to love...).

The Lord wants us to obey his commandments, because that is what will make us happy. His commandments are not hoops for us to jump through, but a pathway to peace of mind. Of what value is heaven if there is no peace of mind?

 

[bling]

What is your objection to #3?

What is your definition of "happy"?
Being crucified with Christ is not a "happy" time.
In Acts 2 Christ/Peter/God wanted people to experience the worst feeling they could experience by receiving a death blow to their heart and still living (Acts2: 37).
Being disciplined is not fun to experience at the time, but you can come out on the other side a better person.
If we are involved in sin God wants us to be hurting so we will repent.
Also, Christ followed the commandments perfectly, so why did He get in trouble with the religious leaders of the day?
If you are talking about following the commands to get you to heaven it does not work, yet allowing the Spirit to work through you doing good stuff does work, but that is the Spirit doing and not your doing.

 

[dreadnought]

What is your definition of "happy"?
Being crucified with Christ is not a "happy" time.
In Acts 2 Christ/Peter/God wanted people to experience the worst feeling they could experience by receiving a death blow to their heart and still living (Acts2: 37).
Being disciplined is not fun to experience at the time, but you can come out on the other side a better person.
If we are involved in sin God wants us to be hurting so we will repent.
Also, Christ followed the commandments perfectly, so why did He get in trouble with the religious leaders of the day?
If you are talking about following the commands to get you to heaven it does not work, yet allowing the Spirit to work through you doing good stuff does work, but that is the Spirit doing and not your doing.

When Jesus sacrificed his life for us, I don't think it was with the intention that we should be miserable. He loved us and wanted us to be happy - that is why he made the sacrifice. That is why he is the boss.

 

[Doug Melven]

When Jesus sacrificed his life for us, I don't think it was with the intention that we should be miserable. He loved us and wanted us to be happy - that is why he made the sacrifice. That is why he is the boss.

Jesus died for us so we could have a relationship with Him.
As Psalms 16:11 says, "In His Presence is fulness of joy.
So as we spend time in His Presence we can have joy, we could not be in His Presence with Jesus' sacrifice.

 

[bling]

When Jesus sacrificed his life for us, I don't think it was with the intention that we should be miserable. He loved us and wanted us to be happy - that is why he made the sacrifice. That is why he is the boss.

God as our Father and Jesus both want us to be "happy" a word for "Blessed" in the long run, but going through Loving disciplining (punishment) in this live helps us.

 

[dreadnought]

Jesus died for us so we could have a relationship with Him.
As Psalms 16:11 says, "In His Presence is fulness of joy.
So as we spend time in His Presence we can have joy, we could not be in His Presence with Jesus' sacrifice.

Yes, I believe he was motivated by love.