Theologies

[dreadnought]

All three are wrong

1. He does not want us to suffer for no reason. All suffer as they walk in faith in Christ because the flesh has been crucified with Christ, they that are Christ have crucified the flesh, they walk in the spirit not after the flesh. It is given to us also to suffer with him and to pick up our cross daily.

2. The Lord does care what we do and not all are going to heaven. We can only do anything as we abide in him and walk by faith

3. The Lord wants us to have true joy in the Spirit, happiness comes and goes depending on circumstances. he works in all believers to make us perfect and fills us with joy and love as we abide in him. This is a new and living way. We are not walking after the flesh and the Mosaic law. We do not live after the letter but after the Spirit.

The other option is

4. The Lord wants all to repent and believe the gospel and then he will give them life as he dwells in their heart and as they continue in the faith he will work in us to make us perfect unto every good work working in us that which is well pleasing in His sight through Jesus Christ (Hebrews 13:20,21 KJV). The law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made us free from the law of sin and death. The law written and engraved on stones is done away for believers and we are not under it, we walk in the law of Christ and keep His commandments.

I think joy makes us happy.

 

[dreadnought]

You do know, right, that as Jesus suffered, it is written, "Have this same mind in you..." (TO SUFFER!) .....

If the goal of Christianity were to suffer, you probably wouldn't have a lot of Christians. I believe it is Satan who wants us to suffer, and Jesus came to free us from that.

We all suffer because we sin, but when we repent of our sin, the suffering subsides.

 

[hedrick]

How are 1 and 3 not exclusive? 1 says the Lord wants us to suffer for no reason. 3 says the Lord wants us to be happy "and that means obeying his commandments, since the commandments keep us out of trouble, if we obey them."

I certainly don't think God wants us to suffer for no reason. But obeying his commandments doesn't necessarily keep us out of trouble. There are plenty of fine Christians around the world who have had very challenging lives. This is the point of Job: the traditional idea that God rewards the good and punishes the evil (at least in this life) doesn't hold water. God praises Job for holding out for honesty about this. The Psalms also reflect the suffering of God's people.

 

[dreadnought]

I certainly don't think God wants us to suffer for no reason. But obeying his commandments doesn't necessarily keep us out of trouble. There are plenty of fine Christians around the world who have had very challenging lives. This is the point of Job: the traditional idea that God rewards the good and punishes the evil (at least in this life) doesn't hold water. God praises Job for holding out for honesty about this. The Psalms also reflect the suffering of God's people.

It depends on how you define "trouble." Jesus got himself into "trouble" with the authorities because he wouldn't bow down to them. That's not the trouble I'm talking about. I'm talking about the trouble that makes you miserable - the consequences of sin.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Obeying the commandments keeps you out of trouble, and if you keep out of trouble, what stands in the way of keeping you happy?

The disciples obeyed and got in big trouble. The prophets obeyed anc hot in big trouble. Jesus obeyed and got in big trouble. Obeying God doesn’t necessarily lead to happiness all the time. It’s not the reason we obey.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

When did "at the moment" enter the conversation?

Happiness is a momentary experience. I don’t think anyone would say Jesus was happy on the cross.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

It depends on how you define "trouble." Jesus got himself into "trouble" with the authorities because he wouldn't bow down to them. That's not the trouble I'm talking about. I'm talking about the trouble that makes you miserable - the consequences of sin.

That is true but when happiness is the measure, you are talking about how a person feels at the moment.

 

[fhansen]

Doing the right thing in general may well get us in trouble with the world we live in. It's values are often in conflict with Christian values of course. In fact, we're here to suffer from the effects of choosing self over God, and the sin/evil that results from that severed relationship. We're here to experience-to come to know-both good and evil so we may, hopefully, choose between the two and run to the good alone.

But the idea that one of God's ultimate desires and purposes is man's sheer unending bliss is a continuous core teaching of the church. It's just that He is the source of that happiness and until our relationship with Him is fully consummated, until we're continuously in His immediate presence, that kind of happiness is impossible, or fleeting at best.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

GOOD! You seem to be catching on! (or not ? )

If the goal of Christianity were to suffer, you probably wouldn't have a lot of Christians.

 

[ViaCrucis]

It seems to me most people abide by one of these theologies:

1. The Lord wants us to suffer for no reason.
2. The Lord doesn't care what we do - we're all going to heaven.
3. The Lord wants us to be happy, and that means obeying his commandments, since the commandments keep us out of trouble, if we obey them.

What do you think?

4. The Lord has called us to Himself to live in Him, and has sent us out to be His people to bear His name to our neighbor through word and deed.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[dreadnought]

The disciples obeyed and got in big trouble. The prophets obeyed anc hot in big trouble. Jesus obeyed and got in big trouble. Obeying God doesn’t necessarily lead to happiness all the time. It’s not the reason we obey.

Trouble? What do you mean by that? Dying for your Savior isn't trouble. Experiencing the consequences of your sin is trouble.

 

[dreadnought]

Happiness is a momentary experience. I don’t think anyone would say Jesus was happy on the cross.

We're talking about eternal happiness.

 

[dreadnought]

That is true but when happiness is the measure, you are talking about how a person feels at the moment.

I don't know why being in prison should bother a person who has a clear conscience.

 

[dreadnought]

GOOD! You seem to be catching on! (or not ? )

The Lord offers us eternal life, not eternal suffering.

 

[dreadnought]

4. The Lord has called us to Himself to live in Him, and has sent us out to be His people to bear His name to our neighbor through word and deed.

-CryptoLutheran

The Lord has laid out a few requirements.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

The Lord offers us eternal life, not eternal suffering.

Clarify yes, who throughout Scripture is granted eternal life ? Who is not ?

IN the New Testament, who suffers ? Why ? Is there ANYONE in the New Testament who does NOT suffer ? Why ?

 

[Dorothy Mae]

If the goal of Christianity were to suffer, you probably wouldn't have a lot of Christians. I believe it is Satan who wants us to suffer, and Jesus came to free us from that.

We all suffer because we sin, but when we repent of our sin, the suffering subsides.

This is way too simple. We suffer because of the sins of others as well of which we are completely innocent of as regarding sin. The goal of following Jesus to be like him. Happiness is one feeling among others in life. All sunshine and no rain only makes a desert. God's goal is that we be like Jesus, not that we personally experience happiness.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I don't know why being in prison should bother a person who has a clear conscience.

So if the police came and arrested you on trumpted up charges and threw you in the worse jail in the country, that would not bother you?

 

[Dorothy Mae]

We're talking about eternal happiness.

Jesus promised eternal life, not eternal happiness. There is a problem that developes in the man who makes being happy, eternal or otherwise, the goal. It is completely self centered.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Trouble? What do you mean by that? Dying for your Savior isn't trouble. Experiencing the consequences of your sin is trouble.

I am pretty sure that when Christians are murdered, especially under torture, even for their Saviour, they did not think it was no big deal. You are forgetting that pain is considered trouble and a lot more than trouble.